why does gnu/linux not feel like real computing to me? i know how to operate linux efficiently because i just translate my knowledge from using command prompt all these years and translate lingo to its linux counterparts. but for some reason despite having more complexity it still feels like a kids toy in comparison to good ol' windows 7.
i do not say this to offend, more to see if anybody else feels this way. Microsoft is now being run by a bunch of idiots but windows 98, 2000, XP and 7 ran like absolute chads and you knew you could get work done on them and count on everything working as intended, given you weren't a mouthbreather who ran untrusted programs.
hell even win ME and vista worked great in my experience. i probably got service packs because i dont remember them being bad, most of the issues were upon release and were quickly fixed. not excuseable from MS, but it wasn't THAT BAD.
ive been using linux for years now, but only now am i realising i should come home. all those years i could have been using a system that just werks, and prior to 10, had an infinitely better aesthetic than gayDE or footgnome. even win8 looks good if you just install classic shell and use regedit to bring everything back to control panel from the settings "app"
thanks!
Why does gnu/linux not feel like real computing to me...
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op if you ever worked as a programmer you would realize that 99% of people use windows for their day to day tasks, even a lot of the fags Zig Forums worships. the truth of the matter is that real programmers care about getting shit done and linux is simply not as conducive to that as windows. linux was never meant to be a desktop OS. it was meant to sit on servers and serve requests headlessly. there's no reason to run it as your daily OS when today's virtualization options exist.
Literal *no start menu* without classic. And settings hahaha
in the company I work at the split is more like 50/50 between windows and linux. People running Windows need to have vm with linux anyway for work. The job listing says you can install linux (any distro) on your work computer which implies there's a big demand for it.
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XP was a mess and needed 3 service packs to be remotely usable, disk fragmentation was extremely bad up through XP. Windows 95 was highly error prone and 98 was not free from those problems either. Windows 8 was a nightmare on launch, updater simply breaks, and Windows 7 is showing its age. I would say if its XP or earlier, GNU/Linux kind of wins out, simply because ext4 is better than NTFS-with-problems, GNU/Linux doesn't have the largest library of viruses ever made for it, you can diddle around in Wine/DOSBox and sometimes get your old garbage working, and GNU/Linux at least supports some modern hardware these days.
Windows definitely has the upper hand in peripheral and graphics driver support as well as the GUI being tested more than is possible for something like a KDE/Qt or GNOME/GTK environment, simply due to the amount of money they have to throw at QA. Its also cohesive, there's ONE DE for Windows, not this shitshow of 5 or more DEs all competing at once (and none of them succeeding, all of them have major flaws). I have had multi-monitor fuckups among other X11 and compositor tearing for a long time on multiple machines, but GNU/Linux seems to have improved on this lately. Don't expect there to be DPI scaling beyond the simplest crap though, fractional scaling is experimental at best and not present in most DEs, and barely works anyway.
I have no interest in keyboard-only oriented WMs, and often they have font rendering from 1999 anyway. The tiling feature is a gimmick that some of you obsess over (most graphical programs need to be used with full focus these days anyway, so this is mostly useless to me, and terminal multiplexers exist so I care even less, and Emacs does the rest), and often the scripting language is some garbage that I would never want to use like Perl or some shell-like language. But whatever, these days computers are mostly just a way to use a browser, Emacs (or whatever text editor + programming environment you prefer), a terminal emulator/the shell and all the CLI only programs you can use through it, virtual machines, a document viewer, and the few other graphical programs that don't segfault and crash immediately like GIMP (in my experience these days at least, maybe its dying on you) or some frontend to mpv like SMplayer. The available video editors are a joke that no one can seriously use in the real world except for ffmpeg and maybe Blender VSE, audio editing programs are in a similiar situation except for Audacity, some tracker programs like MilkyTracker, and maybe that commercial open source DAW, but I haven't tried that yet.
Jamal! Stop deleting my shitpost!!
Do you have a source for that claim?
Hello everybody out there using minix - I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones. This has been brewing since april, and is starting to get ready. I'd like any feedback on things people like/dislike in minix, as my OS resembles it somewhat (same physical layout of the file-system (due to practical reasons) among other things). I've currently ported bash(1.08) and gcc(1.40), and things seem to work. This implies that I'll get something practical within a few months, and I'd like to know what features most people would want. Any suggestions are welcome, but I won't promise I'll implement them :-) Linus ([email protected]) PS. Yes - it's free of any minix code, and it has a multi-threaded fs. It is NOT protable (uses 386 task switching etc), and it probably never will support anything other than AT-harddisks, as that's all I have :-(.
Wow that motif GUI is beautiful. And the bar thing too.
Wine can do more than old stuff btw. It can do things that modern windows dropped: someday it will be better than windows itself for many old and not so old games etc.
I agree that Audacity is good and has amazing features like retuning by frequency instead of semitone and cent.
What is the best video editor in your opinion. Sony vegas? Davinci Resolve? There is a daw, ardour, that is free on linux and other platforms if you compile it instead of downloading its binary, which is for payment only.
Why do you need a frontend to mpv?
And how do you control ffmpeg's video editing features (i know that it can apply filters, etc.).
And i also remark on Inkscape! I've heard that it's good.
stopped reading, post discarded
Unix shell is awful.
The system needs an AT-compatible harddisk (IDE is fine) and EGA/VGA. Ifyou are still interested, please ftp the README/RELNOTES, and/or mail mefor additional info.I can (well, almost) hear you asking yourselves "why?". Hurd will beout in a year (or two, or next month, who knows), and I've already gotminix.
Imagine if Linux hadn't gotten successful.
We would have had year of the Hurd desktop
Windows is a nonfree operating system, why would you use such a thing? For me, personally windows doesn't feel like real computing - always broken, NT doesn't provide all drivers, but candy crush soda saga, paint 3d and xbox shit is present, because of that it somethimes can't install itself on a hard drive, because "the USB driver is missing xD", whereas Linux (the kernel, not the system) is better at providing nonfree blobs - it works always on any hardware. I remember running XP and Vista - constant crashes, BSOD, malware. The software and OS is sooooo bloated. You can't install a PRINTER driver, without restarting your computer. CMD is a joke, PowerShell starts for 10 seconds. Every small update forces you to reboot. No proper package manager, etc.
That's fucked up so badly, even systemd is better.
That would be great, but I wonder whether GNU/Hurd would have become as popular as GNU/Linux (tbh. "Linux", because almost noone knows about GNU) without accepting nonfree blobs?
A lot of companies made source code of their proprietary programs free, because they used GPL'ed code. Would it work as well for hardware?
gnu.org
Windows is for retarded people.
Linux and BSD are for big corporations or people who can run their own servers.
Right. Those corporations run Linux/BSD on their servers, and most of their retarded employees use Windows to access them at their workstations. Meanwhile there's that one fag who hasn't gotten any work done all month because he's been ricing his .conkyrc and broke X again.
Its an old picture of image-dired from the Emacs wiki.
I've heard stuff like that before, there are many incompatibility problems with Windows 9x programs on later versions of Windows so that could be useful.
I don't really use video editors that much, but I remember Sony Vegas being favored by amateurs (probably easy because it was cheap/easy to pirate back then). Adobe Premiere is used in the industry, but unfortunately Adobe's stuff turned into some SaaS-ware or something. I haven't tried Davinci Resolve personally, no idea how good it is. Every graphical video editor is going to be demanding on resources pretty much.
Thats the one I was referring to.
Because not everything is really that easy to do with command line arguments and the semi-vim interface that mpv seems to have.
I'm not a ffmpeg expert or anything, most people seem to make scripts for it.
linux is glued together garbage, stick to BSD
literally never happens unless you are dumb enough to run arch and even then that rarely ever happens.
It's a kernel you knuckle-dragging ape and the fact that you can't figure out how to use a Linux based operating system(like the rest of your nig-tier web cuck colleagues) doesn't mean that it doesn't have a purpose on the desktop.
Niggers who can't partition a hard drive or read a manual should not be developers and any developer that cannot do the aforementioned should fucking hang.
When hardware advances eventually halt, we will take so much pleasure in making fun of you for your inability to use and develop quality software. See pic.
Bill Gates has half a dick and funds (((campaigns))) to chop other people's dicks off lmao
Bullshit, programming is 10000 times better on Linux than Windows.
I've got the same emacs config (with the exception of path names) running on my windows and linux partitions, software development is exactly the same on both
Your text editing environment is only one part of computer programming. Another part is about how much work it takes to interface with the system platform and then finally how to express your specific application functionality. Programming for the Windows platform was a real shit show in the past but it has improved with the modern versions. They've finally caught up to what Unix has been for decades.
RIP in piss shit board
It's in the OP you idiot.
It's part of FOSS projects being pulled into big industry, that have a public facing image. Look at the pages of popular distros like manjaro.
It screams current year, start-up friendly, ukulele playing snot.
I think most of the crowd that still holds the "computing" feel alive were pushed from the linux world into niche projects by the crowd that wants a clean image to face the public. The RaspberryPi people leading the charge especially.
It's still there. The frontier - chatting in IRC, moving to openBSD or Dfly, staying with high barrier to entry distros like gen2.
Because none of it was planned, so it's a fucking mess, and quality control isn't a thing. Quality doesn't exist. Just make your own shit or give up, current OSs are fucked.
why though
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Sure thing, gramps.
Ever heard about Powershell?
OP, you're 100% right. Linux is gimmicky and always will be. I don't think it can be improved at this point. Retards still haven't provided 64-bit timestamps. Imagine that: your current systems and those made many years from now on will not be able to handle dates past 2038.
Linux is the epitome of shit.
Pajeets out in full force.
The imitation cmdline no one except russian hackers have ever used that finally attempts to bring a real command line to Windows but fails because Windows Admins can't command line ?
Fucking faggots. Their website was just right and then they changed it to look like the typical startup cancer with interface for niggers. Why in the fuck would they do that. Fuck, I'm angry.
Polite sage for offtopic.
I tried powershell once. took over 30 seconds to open. never again.
I have the opposite experience. I can't do any work on Windows because it's so slow. I'm relegated to the browser because all programs take so long to startup. I have a 320gb HDD just for the OS, and it's already full just from updates.
Why does everyone give Windows so much shit since W10 came out? It existed before that pile of garbage did
How new are you?
Because everything needs an enormous amount of code and most of that code is workarounds for broken non-solutions in other software, which are themselves workarounds for other shitty hacks in UNIX, and so on. Real computing has real design and engineering, real documentation, real bug fixes, and real software. When you use a real OS, everything has a purpose because having to write extra code to put in bullshit that has no purpose other than to make everyone less productive makes no sense. On UNIX (and all UNIX-like systems), there is no design, "man pages" are the "real" documentation, bugs from the 70s will never be fixed because they're part of some "standard," and software is buggy garbage that any idiot can improve in an hour (but gave up because they have to keep fixing it for each release). Application developers are expected to do more work than the system "programmers," who just blame the user whenever something goes wrong.
This quote explains one of the main reasons why UNIX sucks. Instead of making new software, which leads to evolution of ideas, interfaces, and techniques, they "ported the code, bugs and all" which leads to bloatware and the inability to replace or fix anything. A more recent example is web browsers. Web browsers need millions of lines of code for all of those "standards" and other bullshit. Web browsers have become so bloated that it's easier to write a C++ compiler than it is to write a web browser.
Another reason it doesn't feel "real" is because the UIs suck. Operating systems used to be designed to be used by the user directly. The command language was the easiest and simplest language and all users were expected to know the basics. They used command languages because text was the main way of interacting with a computer. Programmers were expected to use an actual programming language, which could be assembly, BASIC, Fortran, Lisp, and so on. In UNIX the shell is considered "hardcore" only because it's badly designed and has all these bullshit rules for parsing and execution that make it bad for both scripting and interactive use. Ironically, weenies complain about DOS commands because they were the normal way for ordinary users to use the computer.
In an article GS writes:> Nearly every company that came out with a machine running> unix, ported the code, bugs and all, and presumably did> not fix the bugs because of the fear of being struck by a> lightning bolt from the unix gods.One company has been fixing the bugs. The problem is, theyget panned for it.The problem is that if you fix the bugs you need to KEEPfixing them in every release because AT&T (or USL) neverbothers to fold any fixes back into the source release. Soeither you give up fixing them or you give up picking upevery new release of UNIX.Can you figure out which company I'm talking about now?> We want to offer a more standard product; smaller, slower,> less reliable, and more profitable, but standard.Make that "bigger, slower, and less reliable" and I'llbelieve it.
Hurd device drivers are independent binaries that communicate over RPC. By design, it is impossible for the GNU project to prevent proprietary drivers from being written for HURD.
Thank God. It always seemed stupid to me how hard GCC works to prevent people from writing non-free tooling against it.
I didn't mean that. The same way the Linux Foundation as an institution provides support for nonfree software, GNU could make no effort in that field, just as maintainers of trully free distribution do.
Providing support for nonfree software completely misses the point of free software. GCC wasn't written to give a business solution for corporations creating nonfree software, but to give freedom to all software users. If you want to create proprietary botnet crap just use msvc.
Because it's free. And free = shit.
Thank you!
How many pajeets are there on this board?
Being that much cucked by corporations, so you pay for being exploited.
Windows is fucking nonfree software. You own nothing.
Thanks for all your posts, user. You made me realize the reason I hate Linux is because what I hate is the underlying Unix crap.
It's sad but the NT architecture is perfect compared to the disgusting crap the whole Linux ecosystem is.
Both are complete shit.
What's your favorite one?
Get lost, pascal quiche eater. You're a filthy poser and always will be one.
I see that as a disadvantage. Win10 has a rather crappy interface, I'd love to replace it with something better.
Bile Gates can go to hell just for that.
Then consider X a variable you enormous autist.
I have an old netbook with intel atom processor and 4GB off RAM
Which distro should I install to learn GNU/Linux?
Try Devuan.
Install gentoo
I dont need to learn systemmd?
Oh you
Actually, it was started exactly as a desktop OS.
My thoughts exactly. While it's true that GNU/Linux and Unix-like OSes in general do have their share of problems, Windows is much worse, and has gotten even worse lately. The error messages alone make me feel like a dumb child, and 10 in particular feels more "hacked together" than GNU/Linux, which is amazing considering the former was made from scratch by a single company, unlike the latter. Not to mention updates. Updates on Windows have always been retarded.
Now, mind you, I'm not saying that GNU/Linux is "good", there are many things wrong with it as the Multics nigger already pointed out, but it's imho certainly "less bad" than Windows.
I would say that only XP and 7 are/were the ones that just werk. If you run a modern Linux distro, like Debian/Devuan, things should just werk as long as you don't have incompatible wifi/(((bluetooth))) chip. I agree that Windows 95 ~ Windows 7 have really good aesthetics (Windows 2000 was the best in this regard) but Windows XP and Vista killed ricing (Linux has always been the superior platform for ricing, though). Windows 8 and Windows 10 (and GNOME) feel like kids' tablet operating systems.
PowerShill is slow as fuck.
heh, butthurt unix fanboys on the suicide watch
Install Gentoo and never fear breakage again.
You always could run Gentoo (with distcc and/or ccache and perform @world updates on weekends) but I think that Devuan is better suited for an old netbook. Oh, and you could also install CloverOS (cloveros.ga
The SystemD shills who spout ""SystemDick is so simple when compared to traditional init and/or OpenRC/RunIT"" just don't know what they are talking about. That mantra is simply total BS. With OpenRC, you just use rc-update add xdm default, and with SystemDick you use systemctl enable xdm.service that's nearly the same command line. ofc, you can use systemdick to perform some configuration tasks, such as setting the locale (localectl) and hostname (hostnamectl), however, you could just as well just edit /etc/locale.gen (remember to run locale-gen and set $LANG to the desired locale) and /etc/hostname. And you don't have to write or modify initscripts/SystemDick units, as they are supplied by the distribution, and even if you had to, you would just write it once and it would just work. The argument for using SystemDick's unit files over initscripts is that ""SystemDick's Unit files hide (some) complexity"" but is it really a good thing that you don't know exactly what the service does? Anyway, the bottom line is that the init systems aren't """too hard to use""" for a white man, and you should choose your init scheme based on trust on the people who develop it and robustness and other technical reasons. The main reason why I don't like SystemDick is that it's simply too bloated and its hunger is never satisfied. More lines of code always means that there is more room for bugs, and the SystemD's top developers' attitude doesn't help the problem (they just WONTFIX everything and can't take criticism).
If you want to learn more about OpenRC, see wiki.gentoo.org
Also, see the relevant pages for SystemD on ArchWiki and Gentoo's wiki. The rest you can learn from man-pages (type man man).
i am unsure if i would trust cloveros since they are all compiled by some user, but it is a good way to get gentoo installed fast without problems (especially if you are bootstraping on a pc with low ram and clock speed).
and even though gentoo is seen as a meme, it is a good solution for the dependency problems (ex. wanting to use alsa only but cannot since the distro is compiled with pulseaudio or systemd being pulled in as a dependency)
I also disagree with this policy. Stallman is concerned that some proprietary tool that would interface with GCC and then become super popular for the community that uses GCC. This would mean that with the help of GCC, people would be encouraged to use that particular hypothetical proprietary program thus having a direct association with proprietary software. For this case, I think the solution would be to start a new initiative to reimplement that proprietary tool with a free tool - just like the case for any kind of proprietary software whether it be software drivers, application software or OS software.
Embrace Extend Extinguish
Linux is finally done.
That's because you can't do anything at all. You don't compile and compute shit on your supercomputer or at least powerful consumer processor so you fell for the going back to windows meme which you should do. Because you don't compile and compute for shit.
Most programs on linux distros are shit except core ones but most of them has something to do with the hardware and the network.
If you don't write your own programs at all, you shouldn't use computer but just buy the next market console or maybe a gayming desktop so you can play crysis 3. That's all that you can do so you have zero fucking rights to know what real computing is.
Literally just go back to windows, install drivers, google chrome and browse reddit and download your steam library. That's all you can do. And that's your kind of computing.
Oh shit, is this the same poster as the "Why do we still have CLIs? and everything should be a GUI" post?
Windows has never been so bad that it's unusable, but it's also never been great. Every generation has had issues, the earlier ones mainly having hardware problems, but that was mainly due to how fast things were changing and security as an afterthought. They're turned their newest version into a botnet and over-engineered some features to make up for lacking functionality in the past PowerShell.
The new vibe of Windows is that they took all the worst trends in Web2.0 and integrated them into the OS, so there's no escape unless you ditch Windows altogether.
This. It's becoming more and more obvious over time. Lately OpenBSD has been making great strides as a normal usable desktop OS. I just use the default fvwm but 3D acceleration works, everything you need is in packages and everything including the kitchen sink is in ports.
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Big companies and power users such as programmers or hackers use Unix-like OSes. Only newbies or small companies use Windows servers.
Why does people still using UNIX in 2019?
Because Windows sucks, Haiku is barely usable, and there's nothing else?
kolibrios
ponyos
PonyOS is simply an April fools fork of ToaruOS. And it's still Unix-like.
Hey, it's again. I forgot to say that satya nadella fired the entire microsoft qa team back in 2015. That is one reason of why windows 10 is so horrible.
I need two to three hours to configure a windows desktop manually.
I need 1 minute to launch the script for a GNU/linux Trisquel desktop wait 20 min and then test for approximately 10 min.
And no I won't automate a windows configuration via powershell I had to many errors with that shit.
I recently got a mac after many years using linux and I remembered the old joke about macs being toy operating systems, but it is linux the os that feels toy-like to me. Even windows with all its spyware and fuckery feels more real than linux (especially gnome).
HAPAS ARE SUPERIOR TO WHITES
HAPAS ARE SUPERIOR TO WHITES
HAPAS ARE SUPERIOR TO WHITES
HAPAS ARE SUPERIOR TO WHITES
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Mods REALLY need to start banning racism on here.
Wow. Just wow.
Remember that 8 Chan is full of Islamophobes who are envious of the rich and colorful Muslim culture. Prove me wrong (protip: you can't)