What's the difference between natsoc and fascism?

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It's not so much that natsoc "places more importance" on ethnicity as natsoc is literally built around preserving common genetic heritage. Fascism makes preservation and perpetuation of the state (Italy and by extension the Roman empire) the ultimate goal of the state and all individuals within it. Natsoc is a similar approach but with an ethnic group (specifically the German people) as the core value. Whereas fascism is usually about the state as an institution, natsoc is about the genetic material of your people. There is a lot of overlap between these ideologies in practice so they can usually get along fine (with a border between them), but they are actually philosophically irreconcilable in that they operate in different value systems.

The State = the people/volk. You should know this.

I like this quote from your article: "We made italy, now we must make italians."
I got through half of it, i want to say, it is very well written! It's captivating and informative!
Learned quite a bit about early Italy, it struggled with unifying a lot of distinct mini-states under a singular italian government, and that there were huge culutural differences within that state. The government tried to appease to everyone's demands, but could only ever bring out half-measures, which the communists fed upon. But the socialists within the communist movement seperated, and through communistic agitation and defacing of the nation and patriotism "Red advance", gave birth to the fascist movement, spearheaded by mussolini and his followers, black shirts.

Throughout all the years, the government, remained weak and did nothing to stop either the communists or the fascists. Infact, the government saw fascists as a useful tool to stop the rioting and troublesome communists, that they thought could control. But Mussolini would have none of that, and rose his over 500 thousand strong following to a march on Rome. It is said, that the politicians in the parlament were still debating over the most petty and insignificant issues, until the blackshirts actually walked in and surrounded them.

"The next day Mussolini leaves Naples, the congress is declared to be over and the Blackshirts disappear without a trace. The March on Rome has begun! In the minds of the Blackshirts this was a formality, they already de facto ruled the country, it was simply time to recognize that fact in the highest offices of power. They push onward to the capitol, “in the name of the dead and those who would live in the future” – another parallel to Codreanu. The Nationalist Blueshirts rush out to join them on the march. Meanwhile Rome is still stuck in petty parliamentary intrigues, now joined by wild rumors of supposed coalition plans and other political combinations, as if blind to the approach of the Fascist Dragon.
On the 27th Rome is surrounded by the mobilized army of Blackshirts, finally silencing the mill of petty politics behind the curtains of parliament. Fascism issues its proclamation, saying how it has marched to overthrow “the political class of weak and miserable, who in the course of 4 long years were unable to give the nation a real government”. The proclamation ends with these words: “We call upon the Almighty and the souls of our 500 thousand martyrs to bear witness, that we are moved by a singular purpose, united by a singular will, ignited by a singular passion: to help save, and to serve for the greatness of our Fatherland.”

Time to keep reading, I can only recommend your article!

kek, I had the same thought.

Fascism is the eternal struggle for truth, and fascism is the advancement of the self, family, race, culture and ecology.

National Socialism is the German manifestation of Fascism.
National Fascism is the Italian manifestation of Fascism.
British Fascism is the British manifestation of Fascism.
Legionarism, Falangism, Rexism and Integralism are others.

Most stumble when they mix Fascism with (Italian) National Fascism. But the former is the whole worldview, while the latter is the Italian interpretation of that worldview. Fascism is the umbrella ideology. Don't mix it with Italian National Fascism

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Redpill me on 'x,' or "asking to be educated," isn't allowed because it's a break from the regular format. People post when they have something interesting to share, or something interesting to say of their own. If you imagine an in-person forum, it's kind of ridiculous to imagine someone going up to the podium to as the audience a question, as the main premise of a speech. If you want to learn more, do some research yourself and post the results. If you see a thread on the topic where someone seems knowledgeable, ask away; like a Q&A session after a presentation. To start a thread asking to be spoon-fed is lazy, entitled, and ultimately kills another thread for no good reason.

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It's actually a very hard question. I've tried to answer this question for years and i've come to the conclution that they are very diffrent indeed (but not for a person that is very versed) but i couldn't really give you an answer on how. There is no doubt that NS is very fascistsic, but philosofically they are diffrent. My best tip would be to read Hitler's work including table talks and Rosenberg, and than compare it to very good youtubers on fascism such as Cultured thug (including his rant channel) and Marshal Ironsides.

My best attempt on explaining the difference would be
Fascism is basically spiritually,mentally, physically people united towards a common goal.
NatSoc is basically racial survival and thriving on a spiritually,mentally, physically plan.

As you can see fascism does not need to include race in to the question. But it will most likely do since that would mean a more united people.
NatSoc doesn't need to include fascistic elements but it will most likely do since that would increse the chance of survival of the race on spiritually, mentally, physically level.

Are you fucking retarded? Read my post again.

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Considering the influx of sub-110IQ normalfags we might as well indulge them rather than suffer dilution and fracture.

Fascism only became vaguely related to the NatSoc because Hitler and Mussolini became best buddies but before then fascists were never about race or much else, the two are almost entirely different and shakily related. Hell America is more unironically fascist than Germany was.

posting means nothing or i wouldnt have to continuously repeat the same thing over and over. pastalini was a crypto marxist and fascism is national bolshevism rebranded for a new audience. its communism without the desire to eventually abolish the state while national socialism uses the state as a tool to elevate its people into ubermensch instead of create a "utopian" economic/political system.

en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benito_Mussolini

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Honestly this is 2/4th's of the equation.
I wouldn't say all of this is true but he's close, National Socialism was in it's own special group and I honestly believe attempting to compare it to anything else would be a mistake.

They honestly didn't. Just looking at the population of italy pretty much confirms that. I haven't read the article but i've read the "infographic" some other guy on ironmarch did (pretty sure it was the same guy.) Imo when mussolini talks about race it's either on the same level as pretty much all the other european countries did during that time period or he talks about race as a population the same way, for example, Horatio Brown talks about the Venetian race in his book about the republic.

This forced meme seems like a psyop to make us look less intelligent to outsiders. Incorrect grammar and spelling gets us nowhere in an information war, as its improper form discredits whatever is being said to the uninitiated reader regardless of actual content.

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Do you want this to turn into 4/pol/? Much better they go back to their containment zones than shit up the discourse here with spoonfeeding requests

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Mussolini believed in defending his race and was concerned that the darker races would overwhelm an enfeebled Europe.
jacksenukip.wordpress.com/2015/07/01/civic-nationalism-an-ass-in-lions-skin/
Codreanu said this regarding race and the JQ:
"I will under underline this once again: we are not up against a few pathetic individuals who have landed here by chance and who now seek protection and shelter. We are up against a fully-fledged Jewish state, an entire army which has come here with its sights set on conquest. The movement of the Jewish population and its penetration into Romania are being carried out in accordance with precise plans. In all probability, the 'Great Jewish Council' is planning the creation of a new Palestine on a strip of land, starting out on the Baltic Sea, embraces a part of Poland and Czechoslovakia and half of Romania right across to the Black Sea…
The worse thing that Jews and politicians have done to us, the greatest danger that they have exposed our people to, is not the way they are seizing the riches and possessions of our country, destroying the Romanian middle class, the way they swamp our schools and liberal professions, or the pernicious influence they are having on our whole political life, although these already constitute mortal dangers for a people. The greatest danger they pose to the people is rather that they are undermining us racially, that they are destroying the racial, Romano-Dacian structure of our people and call into being a type of human being that is nothing, but a racial wreck."
Mosley said that he didn't believe racial policy was necessary but if the British race was threatened, he wouldn't hesitate to implement it.
All fascists of the 20th century in Europe cared about race, the only fascists that didn't were those in Brazil, for obvious reasons. There are 'fascists' that misinterpret Mussolini's quote re: biologically pure races not existing, but this must be understood in the context of Mussolini speaking against dividing the Italian peoples and a belief in an Italian race, a German race, etc, not whites, blacks, etc.
P.s. Mosley and many other fascist leaders referred to National Socialism as German fascism, and stated that fascism finds a different expression in each country it is tried, reflecting the national will of a people.

So how do explain the policies of race mixing in early pre 1935 Italy.

Such as?

I can't find it yet but there was a song I recall which promoted taking niggers into the empire and offering them a better life.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faccetta_Nera
Here you go.

Tbh a song isn't really proof.

okay gramps, keep fighting that last war

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youtube.com/watch?v=sxn5v1KZWe4
This one, you mean? Yeah, Mussolini passed an anti race-mixing law after soldiers started cohabiting with Ethiopians.

*Faceplams.*
I'm going to go to bed now so I can't argue abut read the lyrics and meaning, pre Natsoc influence fascism wasn't about race except maybe Mosley.

Because of Hitler.

I know that we're de-facto a NatSoc board, but are we de-facto a Fascist board as well? I like everything about NatSoc, but distrust centralized power. Is it heretical here to be in favor of a non-egalitarian patriarchal democratic national socialism presiding over a true ethnostate?

"During the invasion the song was hugely popular in Italy and caused national fervor.[1] The implicitly erotic song was, however, somewhat of an embarrassment for the Fascist government, which had, starting in May 1936, introduced several laws prohibiting cohabitation and marriage between Italians and native people of the Italian colonial empire.[1] These efforts culminated in the Italian Racial Laws of 1938. The Fascist authorities considered banning the song, and removed all picture postcards depicting Abyssinian women from Roman shop windows."

Mosley was not about racialism. He explicitly stated in this interview.

it had more to do with mare nostrum and claiming overseas territory rather than importing darkies to italy.

This site covers Mosley's views on race better than that video does, ran by former members of the British Union movement too.
oswaldmosley.com/question-what-are-your-views-about-race/
oswaldmosley.com/question-what-are-your-views-about-race/

He explicitly state it in this video too.

this

He even states that blacks and asians would be welcomed in his fictional government (in the 1970s that is).

It's also very relevant to mention that he was against importing such people to begin with.

Somewhat related:
Beware and avoid aryanism net, its disinformation of a high degree
hitlerian.tumblr.com/post/172999349460/aryanismnet-overview

Fascism was never really well defined. You can look at what mussolini wrote and implemented, but it really isn't a cohesive set of policies and goals like natsoc was.

My instincts tell me that this is false. I feel that Hitler and NS are on a completely different level, it's something unique and earth-shattering. I feel like the world waited for Hitler and in synchronistic preparation, nationalistic feelings arose in all kinds of places. But the center of gravity was Germany and the further away you went, the greater the decrease in intensity. I know, this sounds a bit esoteric, but it's how I feel.

I think Mosley was either threatened by the government or spiritually broken from lying in jail while the (((globohomo))) new world order was established. We both know what would have happened to the Jews if he got in power in the 30's.

"Aryanism" is the product of a bunch of cunning Jews that are trying to dillute basic doctrines of NS. Could also be some poo in loo.

Where exactly did you post it?
I don't see it.

archive.is/5XiYS

fascism also places a much stronger emphasis upon meritocracy. Whereas natsoc has a bit of social wellfare for its whites. If the modern day fascists however integrated racial realism, then it would NEARLY be superior to natsoc. The endpoint of fascism as it stands now would be a "siphoning off the higher end IQ individuals of other nations" type of end scenario (thankfully zero niggers will be with that) But it would mean the degradation of other nations who are lacking these high IQ individuals (fascists are psychopathic like that)

The natsocs end scenario would probably be self improvement for the whites, and eugenics for its population. In this case also genetic manipulation of its whites (willingly obviously). Both of these systems even could probably coexist side by side, assuming that the whites remain a vast majority (and impose their will, and control on the contributing, other races who are in their enclaves)

But the natsocs would kinda hate to see other nations, like lets say mexico…to degrade and suffer because they steal all of their best individuals (like the daca doctors and other faggets), since they want other races to thrive and also be at their best in some ways. The fascists probably only would want their best, and are also pretty happy with destroying other nations with war or economic strife. So in my hear I lean slightly into the favor of natsocs.

Id recommend reading Mosleys books. Also Hitler wasnt the only one that wrote about National Socialism.

fascism is a merger of monopolies and goverment power where the goverment is the one calling the shosts (unlike in america). NS is a step further where all infrastructure is integrated into the state with the goal of supporting and advancing the nation (state).
germany was still fascist to some extent since the state still had to deal with big companies like porsche, rheinmetal and so on. this prevented them from benefiting of a full socialist (in termsa of infrastructure) production like which the USSR used in its "total war/ everything for the motherland" policy where they practically used labour payed with "patriotism" and just spewed out divisions of men and material eventho the economy and society was collapsing

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Reading this thread i really wonder where some of the people get thier info. It honestly feels like most people are repeating things they have heard from other thread, thier gut , things they have heard from ironmarch. There is one good post and that is

Yea, that sounds likely to me. Its just one guy and when one guy is trying to force his autistic forced and detrimental meme on the rest of us he should probably learn to shut the fuck up or be removed.

Its an obscure thing to thoroughly understand and yes, its hard to explain in dictionary terms. As Goebbels said, National Socialism is an entire way of life where as Fascism is just a basic concept. There is more to it than just race. Positions on economics such as stock market speculation and ending usury etc to my knowledge entirely originate within National Socialism and not Mussolini Fascism, for example. Theres a lot of deep cultural roots it lays in relation to pagan tradition and germanic society. Its something people cant really answer unless they can call themselves a "National Socialist Scholar" and given they dont give courses on it, those are few and far between. I cant even answer it fully. We all need to do more reading, thats for sure.

Meant to reply

Here's an interesting little section from The Ultimate Avatar:
"In my interview with Julius Evola, in his apartment on the Via Corso Vittorio Emmanuele, he told me Mussolini had asked him to write a new racial theory in order to counter that of Rosenberg. It would be the "Fascist racism," different from "Nazi racism." (As if there could be more than one racialism). And thus that entire brilliant Evolian concept of the "race of the body," the "race of the soul" and the "race of the spirit" was born that he labelled with the antipathetic term of "traditional." Something churned within me when I heard this word, as if before the presence of an intellectual social climbing, a literary vulgarity. This concept has been taken by Evola from Guenon, attributing it to Aryan Hinduism that mentions other bodies distinct from the physical that could be components of man, because if they only exist potentially they are virtual, being developed through the practice of yoga. They are bodies that are astral, mental, spiritual, etc. Being German, Clauss, the creator of psychoanthropology, never called his theory "traditional" or "traditionalist." He was married to a Semite, which explains his attitude towards biological racism that he tried to outflank with his psychic racism, his "race of the soul." The "traditionalist" Rene Guenon also ended his days converting to Semitic mohomo'd the pedo goatfuckeranism.

"If the theory of Evola and Clauss on the races of soul and spirit can be accepted as a comfortable element of exposition, in the end they are not necessary, only complicating things, serving only to speak of racism among hybrid and mestizo people without hurting their feelings, since a mulatto or an Indian among us could always think that even though his body is coloured, his soul might not be. There is the suspicion that Evola has just invented everything to speak about race to the Southern Italians and Mussolini. Yet, although their pride remains standing, reality does not change.

"In Vienna it was possible for me to read an internal communication among several SS centers in which they recommended Julius Evola not be given facilities to expound "his esotericism." I understand this was just since Evola would have generated confusion. In Italy herself he was not given better facilities. Those were times of struggle and they had to simplify. Yet the beautiful "race of the body" of the Italy of today is a result of the racial selection that was then done in the last years of Fascism, carried out under the influence of Hitlerism. I wish that something like that had happened in Spain.

So much truth in that.

Mussolini had some pretty hot takes on race, I had a quote from him that was so repugnant I actually deleted the meme it was in, but its since been proven factually incorrect by scientific realities of race. He said something to the effect that no one could prove to him that races were different, so ridiculous I thought it was fake.

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I bet that could have saved a lot of people many hours of reading less than crucial material.

The main difference is that National Socialism puts the emphasis on the Volk. And draws the power from it so it can build the State which fulfills the need of the people and is in their employ. Sort of how the American patriots view their Constitution.
National Socialism goes further and emphasizes that the people are everything: their blood, common heritage, culture, etc. You have to help each other so you succeed as a whole. And it's done through the prussian model of socialism which wasn't designed to chain people on the state but actually serves to better society. Meritocracy and German efficiency.
Which IMO shows the influence of eastern philosophy (Buddhism) on Hitler's philosophy (group karma). Hence Swastika.

And it's not done in the manner of marxist "help" which just chains you to the state with underhanded tactics that promise you heaven.

Fascism is more similar to classical monarchism where the State is more important and people have to serve it and it's leader. Nationalism is important but more as the glue that keeps everything together to serve the state and the dictator (Duce).
It's very similar to the Republican dictatorship of the Roman Republic.
This is what the majority of South American nations copied from Franco in Spain which copied it from Mussolini.

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This is great. Thank you for posting. Where do you have it from?

I have finished reading up on the article from , very interesting piece of history, I learned under what conditions and how Mussolini came to power, and what influenced his fascism.
Though the article claims that national socialism and fascism are the same. It also put evidence there that Mussolini was racial conscious, but the site seems long gone, and I cannot access what it had linked.

From what I know now, the functionality and cohesion of the state was very important to him. I think Mussolini foremost sought to unify Italy under a strong banner, and win over the volk. I couldn't view his take on race in the article, but I found a few take-aways in a blog-post, that posted. Check this out:
Starts with a quote from Mussolini:

"Race? It is a feeling, not a reality. Ninety-five per cent, at least. Nothing will ever make me believe that biologically pure races can be shown to exist today.… National pride has no need of the delirium of race.”

Then the explanation from the blog-post:

It would be easy to take this and apply a universal context to this quote, if one did not understand the concept of race at that point in time. The Linnaeus taxonomic system would have still been in use at this point in time, and the term “race” would have suggested a variation within of the species Homo europaeus (White Europeans). In other words, Mussolini’s reference to “biologically pure races” was in the context of a mixture of White race sub-sets within the White race species Homo europaeus. Just as other Europeans mentioned the “German race” or the “English race”, so did Mussolini the “Italian race”."

Another good take-away:

"In the book “Racial Theories in Fascist Italy” by Aaron Gillette, Aaron records Mussolini’s pessimism about the fate of Europe. Mussolini went on to say “The singular, enormous problem is the destiny of the White race. Europe is truly towards the end of its destiny as the leader of civilization.” Mussolini went on, explaining this sad outcome had occurred because “the White race is sickly,” “morally and physically in ruin,” and in opposition to the “progress in numbers and in expansion of the yellow and black races, the civilization of the White man is destined to perish.” According to Mussolini, only through an aggressive program of promoting natality and eugenics was there any hope of reversing this trend."

Looks like race was important to him, afterall. Yet, I'm not seeing much out there that Italy was a particular racist state, unlike Germany.

Learning about his downfall, and if the picture collage of is to be believed, it seems that perhaps he had found himself too far caught up in political intrigues and trusting the wrong people too much, to do what was necessary.

I want to point out the following good posts:

All in all, the common theme I see here is that fascism places it's focus on the state, and race only in so far as a fundamental pillar to it's well-being, while national socialism does everything in it's power to give the best care and happiness to it's volk. From what I learned in the history of Mussolini's rise, it seems to confirm that, even though his personal views may have been different.

I looked up Evola, I found a few entries on this wikipage here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Evola … if you skip to the section "third reich", turns out he did eventually worm his way in afterall.

Some of the important takes I found on him:

"Evola endorsed Otto Weininger's views on the Jews. Though Evola viewed Jews as corrosive and anti-traditional, he described Adolf Hitler's more fanatical anti-Semitism as a paranoid idée fixe that damaged the reputation of the Third Reich."

"After World War II, Evola continued his work in esotericism. He wrote a number of books and articles on sex magic […]"

"After World War II, Evola's writings continued to influence many European far-right political, racist and neo-fascist movements."

"It was Evola's custom to walk around the city during bombing raids in order to better "ponder his destiny". During one such raid, 1945, a shell fragment damaged his spinal cord and he became paralyzed from the waist down, remaining so for the remainder of his life"

"During his trial in 1951, Evola denied being a fascist and instead referred to himself as a "superfascist"."

I mean, at least he is showing some fervor, but he used it very poorly, doing more damage than good.

Ezra Pound himself has something to say about that.

You don't know who Evola is? Read his essay Pagan Imperialism and if you like it order(or find the pdf) his magnum opus Revolt.

Dont even bother with Evola. I've seen nothing good come out from people that have read and embrace Evola.
From The Path of Cinnabar
Racist ideology, as is known, had always played a prominent role within National Socialism: generally promoted in an extremist and primitive fashion, racism represented one of the most problematic features of the Third Reich, and one in need of rectification.

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which is not in the fucking rules but you faggot mods go ahead and ban people for regardless even though OPs intentions are well founded and intends to engage in meaningful discourse.

t. someone who has been banned by faggot mods for the same thing and is about to be banned again so fuck you. this is a decent thread that will redpill people about the differences between natsoc and fascism and also redpill people about how mods here are even bigger faggots than 4chan mods

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thats too pseudo for me. lets keep to practical terms in statehood and policy

When you talk about fascism vs NatSoc is very much practical terms, especially when we have such short historical examples of them both.

Isn't it kind of larpy to be natsoc if you're not ethnically German?

national-socialist isnt a X-nationality thing. its a set of political, economic and social paradigms that are primarily based on nationalism and socialism.
youre thinking of a situation when someone would LARP as a NSDAP national-socialist without being german.
following a originaly german political paradigm and LARPing as a german are two different things

that is to say, you have your own national socialism where you focus on your own nation, not germany

You can be of any race and praise NatSoc, it is the ultimate truth for each and everyone. Imagine if blacks lived by the NatSoc philosophy, they might achieve great things and live in peace with each other and not gangbanging and breeding bastard kids.

I really like the idea of National Socialism but with one criticism, which is that its concerns end at the nation in question, while I tend to buy into a more pan-European idealism. That is to say all Aryan peoples holding onto their own nationalism but within a greater conglomerate, or a European union if you will. Not like the current EU, but a union of sovereign nations allied with each other militarily and economically, rather than having their self-determination precluded by an unelected superstate with freedom of movement between.

Also I think I might be ethnically Germanic anyway. Most of mein blut has ties to soil of Germanic peoples, namely Nederlands, Southern England, and Scandinavia. So maybe I could larp and get away with it

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thats why you need a confederation of some sorts. im not talking about like a LARP confederacy, im talking about a real federation or assembly of autonomous nation-states. but that body would be only there to ensure borders and overallsecurity stays intact, still giving states full authority within their respective borders. the main problem here would be fairly dividing the power among the member states, and not just getting a EU2, where lobbyists and foregeiners control the whole thing and germany acts as their head strawman

This is what fascism is. Bring a bucket.

Hey while we're talking about Nazism/Fascism, anyone have more cool Nazi/Fascist aesthetics like these?

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i like these two less known posters. the sword one is just e

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