What are your views on veganism?
I ask in relation into the non-aggression principle.
Do animals apply? If not why? If so why?
I am interested in your opinions.
I must add that I don't want any insulting or unproductive language to be used, please keep on topic as to further the search for the truth. You may also share opinions on the nwo in relation to veganism and lab meat and GMOs etc.
What are your views on veganism?
I have been for around 2 years now.
I have no desire to eat meats, fish, poultry, eggs, or dairy products.
I really don't and I am comfortable with that.
As fas as not wanting any insulting or unproductive language to be used, wuit being a faggot about it.
Anyway, my cholesterol numbers improved a great deal. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I am more healthy.
I am not the type of vegan that lets everyone know. My wife does that and I'm kind of embarassed when she does, but she means well. I am also not the type of vegan that rents zodiac boats to go after whale harpooners. I don't give a fuck about the fucking whales. I don't give a shit about the dolphins either. I have ZERO concern about the environment. I do this for purely selfish reasons - to be healthier.
Do animals apply?
nah, fuck animals. I still try and run over squirrels whilst performing driving duties in my automobile. I just don't want to get deer all mixed up in the grill of my car.
Some folks say Hitler was a vegan.
If he was, then I am following in great footsteps.
But why do you have no compassion for animals? Are they just lesser than us? Should we aim not to harm them unless they are posing an immediate violent threat to us?
bugman slave diet, optimal for the goyim cattle
You offer no real opinion or supporting arguments. Please don't spout insults that hinder debate.
The issue you're facing is one regarding the issue of morality versus ethics.
It's not immoral to kill an animal.
But it could be considered unethical to kill an animal in a way that doesn't minimize or reduce its suffering.
Morality tends to be black and white, good vs bad. There is no room for interpretation and it is therefore necessarily simple and basic. Ie: do not murder, etc.
Ethics are more legal and cultural (and therefore, somewhat more subjective). It's where a society looks at this black and white morality and creates concepts of ethics in how to handle and manage good and evil.
Take the example of animals again.
You're hungry lost in the woods and you kill a dog. Doesn't matter how you kill that dog, could be fast, or slow, but you kill it however you can because you're hungry. There is nothing immoral about this act.
However, cultural ethics may suggest that you should thank the spirit of the dog before you consume it, or ethics may suggest that you should kill it as cleanly and with as little suffering as possible.
Morality is very specific and objective in its scope, ethics are vast and subjective things based around culture and knowledge. Ethics often come from empathy as well.
Take another, example. A young teen girl has just had her first period. Morally, she's ready to breed. Nothing immoral about breeding her and filling her with babies. However, ethics suggest that due to her immaturity and lack of experience in life, we should probably keep her from breeding for at least a few more years, because we understand the difference mental maturity can provide a person.
That's the idea anyway. So where does morality come from? Some say God, some say our nature, etc. I personally believe there is evidence for an objective morality in humans, because even the most primitive humans had concepts like "don't kill your tribesmen", but despite this evidence, I have yet to see actual proof of its existence. Despite this, ethics can still exist, because of their cultural nature.
No. My opinion of them hasn't changed. I don't go out of my way to poison dogs and cats or cows or anything. If literally, a squirrel jumps in front of me in the road, I will run it over. Zero fucks given. I give no thought to the stupid whales, dolphins, elephants, and the like. I just don't give a shit about them. Maybe you don't give a shit about something. Maybe you don't give a shit about whether or not they use 3 nails every foot on a sill plate or four nails every foot. Do you think about something like that every day? No. I doubt it. Well, that's how I think about the whales etc…
get over it.
its none of my business.
IF a whale gets stuck on a beach, all I see is a photo op for fat people memes.
Vegans starve without heavily industrialised agriculture controlled by you know who. Great way to keep the sheep inside the pen as they can't resort to hunting.
I hit a rabbit that was crossing the road one night. I looked in the rear view mirror and saw its head bouncing away like a ball. I laughed. I knew it was dead and that it didn't suffer, but there is no way I'm going to swerve and risk my life because some stupid animal jumped in front of my vehicle.
My point is not that we need to be caring for every animal and we should go out of our way to make this so. It is that why do we consume them if we can grow crops instead. All live stock consume crops so they could be crops we consume. And why do you guys all seem to share such a carless attitude for other lives? You do not have to pretend they are as important as your children but you seem indifferent. Also 3676 did you have any links about how vegans cannot exist without 'heavy industrialized agriculture' I'd be interested to learn more.
Reminder that CM wants this kind of non-content on Zig Forums.
I somewhat understand what you are saying. Do you think you could provide some more examples of morals vs ethics to consolidate my understanding. I think I might have been thrown by 'killing an animal is not immoral'
Appolgies but what is CM?
Reminder that CM wants these newfags on Zig Forums
A clueless Zig Forumsack is a good Zig Forumsack to them.
Humans evolved diet of meat. Some humans to this day still eat primarily meat (no veggies or fruits growing in the Arctic where the Inuit live now is there?).
Point being, while I try to source my meat locally and while I am working toward buying enough land to raise my own livestock, meat is important for human nutrition. These days we can supplement a vegan diet with all manner of supplements and all manner of traditionally exotic protein and fat based nutrition. At the end of the day, we are primarily meat eaters and I'm not going to stop eating meat and switch to peanuts or insects or supplements when I can just go right to the source and get what I need in the same way my ancestors did.
Yes, corporate factory farms are unethical, because the conditions and care are abhorrent to the animals, but also because those conditions objectively reduce the quality (and possibly the nutritional value) of the meat.
Thay all said, you started this thread like you were open to an objective discussion about eating animals and how that fits into the "nap", but now you seem like you're whining about "muh poor animals" because people aren't agreeing with your ethical standards regarding animal life.
I would argue that anything a naked human MUST do to survive is outside the realm of morality. Not what they want to do, just what they MUST do.
This means that killing an animal however they can, lies outside of the realm of morality.
You're arguing within the realm of ethics, regarding killing of animals. That's why this is going to be so difficult to nail anyone down on an answer that is likely to satisfy your personal, subjective standards on this subject.
You all are OBSESSED with food. You are worse than a flock of kikes, it is food, you put it in your fucking piehole. If you don't you die.
If we didn't kill MASSIVE amounts of animals, constantly, there wouldn't be plant matter to eat either because it would all be gone. That's why humans hang out with dogs and cats. The idea of universal peace is fished out of people's assholes much like free-everything or worldwide equality. It's a sweet-sounding false promise that is used to mask diabolical intentions from people who know full well that their promises expect the laws of physics to be completely different all over.
I'm not whining because people don't care. I wanted to hear people's views because I know they would different from mine my ultimate goal is to see if anybody would change my mind. Either my belief can stand up to crticism or it is I who must change my belief.
I take your point and I do not deny if I were a 'naked man' I would not do the same. Given our current living condition, is it not possible to retire the practice of eating animals. Also another question if eating animals is okay why not humans? That is not a smart ass question either. Is there any legitimacy to that question?
I would not complain about hunting if I had no other choice that is my point. For what reason is something so lesser than we are that we justify it's slaughter? Do you practice eugenics for example?
I'm Transvegan. I only eat ribeye but I want all the virtue signalling benefits
I do not seek to undermine your claim but is there any sources that can prove this claim about animals eating everything on Earth if left unchecked. I do not live in a fantasy world however. I realized that people and animals will die. I am unsure as to the extent of what is supposed to be necessary.
I would have no problem to take responsibility for my actions and slaughter animal or human if my survival depended on it. I do not necessarily hold the belief that we shouldn't be striving to avoid this if possible.
Maybe you could give a bit more of an explanation instead of a throw away comment
Apologies of this does not fit what it considered relevant for this thread. However I seek the opinions of people who seem to have a bit more understanding about the world than the average redditor. I was hoping maybe someone could shed more light on the idea of forcing people to go vegan and making animal slaughter/consumption illegal. In some sort of a way to weaken the population or to put them on soy (soyboys) or other gmo variants which would cause disease.
If he gives his, sure.
There's no logic in what he said. This planet managed to find balance without human interference. Why would massively killing animals have any beneficial output in our ecosystem? Why would our slaughter increase plant matter?
I just thought of something. Are you essentially saying everyone knows what is right and wrong. But ethics is the choices we make to ignore or take action on these things we know to be right and wrong. Meaning ethics is how each individual rationalizes their actions on their 'survival' or 'quality of life'. For example, action 'x' is wrong objectively, given my circumstances however action 'x' is necessary for 'survival'
slaughtering an animal for food is not equal to murdering and cannibalizing a human.
But why engage in a name calling mentality? Your comment was much better and served to be constructive. Thank you for adding to the discussion.
Do you have any evidence to suggest nature
What is the difference? Aren't both meat at the end of the day? Do humans possess something animals do not? Should brain dead people be harvested for food? (More of a pre-emptive question)
How's that severe autism working out for you?
Human meat would be far more expensive, less healthy, and ultimately unable to sustain civilization.
Opposing thumbs, mathematics; the animals we slaughter for food tend to be so dumb they scarcely remember you hurting them. Then (non-Jewslamic) slaughter is just instant blackout with nothing registering for them.
This would be a waste of time and money to satisfy the random desires of some sick fuck who probably also bribes congress. Hitler's idea was to use them for medical experiments, and whatever (practical) modern medicine did not come from the US civil war probably came from the second world war instead.
Yes we are made in the image of God among other things and the animals are here for you to eat if you want to. Veganism is terrible for human nutrition. Even vegetarian monks count shrimp as vegetable so they can eat it
Life began around 4 billion years ago and it managed to continue its existence for all those years. Unless you're talking about the sun going extinct or any such events there's no need for humans in order for life to continue its course.
I despise unsourced facts pulled out of people's asses. If you're gonna claim something like that at least link to a white paper or something.
Cannibalism is not really that common among mammals barring some exceptions (lack of access to nourishment, defective offspring, etc.). It's not healthy.
So is it god telling us this? Like I recall the holy Bible saying animals are here for us to rule. Or something to the effect of that. Is there one correct holy book or a certain idea of God that o should be following.
It's not necessarily to be taken that literally. But however if someone wanted to engage in cannibalism should it not be okay considering animal consumption is okay. Like upon the same idea. I don't think that human meat would solely sustain a population. Any why do you consider that to be the ideals of a 'sick fuck' what differentiates the two.
I admire veganism for morality angle, but it doesnt hold up to examination. Factory industrialized agriculture and ranching is the problem. Animal foods are healthy from well raised farms. There are fats and vitamins and cofactors in meats that plants do not have.
Are you making the argument cats eating mice balances it's population? I thought it was about animals eating plant life. What's the point of not being able to properly follow through and ask questions about people opinions to find truth.
That's about what it says. Jews said here's what you can eat and here's what you can't, then Jesus said it's what comes out of your mouth that makes you unclean not what goes in. Unless you're talking about eating your defeated enemies in war - which could kill you with disease - you're probably breaking a large number of biblical rules by butchering human meat.
The idea of a human butcher's shop makes no sense when you consider the the economics involved. Vegan-fed meat would be total crap and normal human meat is far more difficult to raise than purpose-bred farm herbivore meat.
Got any good resources? I've heard this before and was wondering what you thought about supplementation then?
Mice eat your vegan chow. They'll get into your home and eat it all if you're not doing anything to stop them. Even in the modern era, human-operated traps are far less effective than a hunting cat or a terrier.
If you didn't know about vermin eating your grain then you absolutely positively 100% need to start going outside soon. They have no intention of sharing with you, and premodern peoples had shit all to fight back with besides cats and dogs (terrier in particular.) Rodents also spread disease, which fucked the medieval world's butt pretty hard.
OP wants peace with furrykind. Ain't gonna fucking happen, simple as that.
Okay. More onto the bible and God's authority. Doesn't the bible contain many contradictions? And don't holy books from all religions have stories about child marriage that dosent condem the practice. I would like to make clear I'm not well versed at all about the bible or any religion and it's holy books. I do not however claim to be an atheist.
If you think taking supplements to round out an inherently deficient plant only diet is good enough for you, go for it. I know animal foods provide nutrition and vitality you will not get from popping a (((pill))).
Honestly, if you are a vegan willing to sacrifice your own wellbeing for a moral stand, I respect that. The problem is vegans refuse to admit a plant only diet is inferior for disease prevention and overall well being.
Do not bullshit me with studies, cholesterol values etc. If you actually have a wide grasp of human health and can interpret and evaluate studies correctly (when they are not poorly designed or biased), and you felt the healing and nutritive potential of quality animal foods you would just know. I am not going to engage in a debate where we toss studies and shit at eachother because that is inane. I judge based on how the foods make me feel.
I agree industrial animal breeding and slaughter is hellish and dystopic. But veganism addresses a problem in a short handed way. There is no way you can be optimally healthy eating only plants. Just try it. 2 years is nothing, the 2 year vegan still has about a year or more of fats left in their brain to starve on, the degeneration will happen soon after that runs out. Endogenous synthesis of fats and cofactors is for survival. Not to rely on for only source lf sustenance.
Coq10, dha, k2 mk4. Carnitine, b12 etc you cant get in any bioavailable quantitiy from plants.
Your body rarely adequately synthesises any of these and more. Bioavailability of nutrients in plants are bound up with oxalates, phytates etc. 100% rda from plants is not same as 100% rda from animal food.
And btw i believe plant foods can be healthy, but to rely on them for sole source of calories is suicidal
I take your point, couldn't this reasoning be applied to anyone that isn't yourself however? Like you want to take my resources for yourself, but instead of killing you I opt to work with you to enrich us both. I'm not using this argument to argue to work with animals or anything but more that, anyone that poses any kind of threat to you even just by existing because you compete with them for resources. This kind of though could result in the destruction of everything but yourself. Or do we feed into working together for the sake of efficiency to fees my selfish desires.but this still feeds the idea that slaughter could be avoided
Look, you pathetic soyboy cuck faggot
Death is life and life is death. If you want to abandon the very essence of qhat it is to be a biological natural being, and adopt some slave diet which will eventually lead to you being weak and deficient, go fucking for it. But stop being a faggot here just because a couple years ago some other faggot on yotube convinced you to adopt a modern slave diet. Just fuck off. So sick of you vegan cuck fucks with your soliphistic debates.
Animal foods make me feel HEALTHY in a way that plants dont. I still eat plants because they are nutritious and medicinal, but cutting animal foods out is fucking retarded. Fuck you supid fucks
Why do faggot vegans always get so good at debating abstract concepts when all you need to do is eat some fuckin meat to see how it affects your health. Im sick of u cucks citing jew studies to prove your gay points. Eat your fuckin beans and grains and indigestible plants you cuck, come back in another 3 years and see how your health is going. Fucking soyboy faggot.
I don't think throwing studies at each other is a good idea either. However you have given some perspective that I will follow up on. I will look for some studies that are unbiased. I will also look into this idea about degeneration from lack of fats. Thanks
Seriously this thread should be nothing but vegan memes.
Just stop being vegan today, go eat some fuckin meat and see how good it makes you feel after 2 years. Vegans are literal jew soldiers
I will follow up on these with some more research. I do take a b-12 supplement but I thought it wasn't derived from animal sources. Are these only found in animals. It's impossible to supplement? I thank you for you contribution
Veganism is being pushed worldwide to make us fuckin slaves and because our jew leaders know industrial meat production is unsustainable. People eating meat after years on vegan diet often say how it feels like they are finally awake. Your body wants animal fats and proteins.
No need to get upset. Where I get confused is if life is life and death is death, when does it become unnecessary and what's to stop me from acting out all kind of dark thoughts on the world? Where do you draw the line.
Overly emotional people using deception to try to spread their religion. Notice there are only two angles vegans use to spread their shit. First is showing people how bad factory farming is, and then saying the only solution is to be a vegan. They are correct that factory farming is terrible, but lying about veganism being the only solution. Industrial agriculture is terrible period, even if you are a vegan. The solution is small scale organic permaculture, not veganism.
Second they realize people care about the environment, so they lie and say veganism is good for the environment. This is not true, but they realize the only way to sell their religion is to try to hitch it onto something people actually care about. Veganism is not good for people or the planet.
No. Cats are completely ineffective for rodent control, that's why they are not used. Terriers are useful to initially drop populations, but traps are used for long term control after that.
It is trivially easy to store grain in rodent-proof containers.
Your b12 is synthesized from precursors in a lab. My point is you are abandoning real food and trying to make up with supplements. This is straight jew shit tbh.
I cant believe how u can be vegan for 2 years and not notice how shitty you feel. Eat some god damn meat and pay attention to how you feel after.
You're definitely making a "gotcha" kind of question here. As I said earlier, morality is difficult to prove without evoking God or some kind of "logical" nature argument to support it. I merely believe that some kind of morality does exist because we can see humans living by a basic moral code in even some if the most savage environments. It's not proof, but this and other examples give strong implications to its existence in some form, what that exact form or source is, I can't say. It's not entirely faith based for me, but it's not entirely logical either; it's based on circumstantial evidence and my own observations that humans see certain behaviors as entirely unacceptable (even niggers in Africa bash murders or rapists with bricks and light them on fire).
As to your question though, MURDERING a human for food seems to be one of those areas where humans throughout history have agreed that this is an evil act and it probably is evil (but I can't entirely deconstruct for you, the reasoning as to why this would be the case). Regarding eating a human who gave consent (maybe they knew they were going to die anyway or whatever), eating a human who is already dead, etc are unlikely to be evil though.
Animals aren't humans though, and they don't behave within a system of morality, let alone a system of ethics, so I believe it's quite generous of humans to even consider animals within the scope of ethics.
What the nigger fuck are you talking about??? You cant seperate slaughtering a chicken for dinner vs holocausting mankind?? At least drink milk and eat eggs if you are that mentally ill. Ypu will get most of your good stuff from those foods and you wont have to murder animals.
That guy talking about being vegan with his wife isn't me.
I definitely agree with the small scale permaculture idea. So essentially eating animals is a 'necessary evil' in order for us to survive.
Anons, govt agencies are literally pushing plant based eating diets…. we are all told to think meat and dairy is bad and unhealthy. Vegans engage in round about soliphistic jew arguments to push their points.
I am obsessed with diet and health, if veganism made me healthier i would be a vegan. But it doesnt so i am not.
So because animals lack moral character/values we are free to do with them what we want. But ethics would say maybe don't tourture them for fun. Without going off on a whole other topic what differentiates 'niggers' and European whites. I have heard some basic argument about average IQ's but what is your context when dealing with 'niggers'
Dosent the government also heavily push for meat and dairy consumption also? Like in Australia there are ads on TV to eat lamb and pork and drink milk.
That's basically the idea.
Morality is the assumption that people inherently know what is good and what is evil.
And yes, ethics is more subjective. While I could be how an individual rationalizes their behavior, it's often also under the domain of social culture and in-group attitudes.
Morality, strictly defined, is inherent to each human, ethics are constructs/codes individuals and societies make to govern behavior and make civilizations possible. It gets blurry between the two sometimes, mostly because people use the terms interchangeably, but the core difference is that morality is objective and independent of individual or group rationalization, while ethics are legal/codified/cultural (and empathetic).
And that's my point really. You're arguing the ethics of how we treat animals, there is no morality in how we treat animals.
Another question, when having a permaculture system, how does one have enough meat for constant supply. Like how regularly do humans need to eat meat? To get the fats and vitamins mentioned.
Forgot to add which meats should we eat. If fish what types, beef, pork, chicken?
Yes that's exactly the idea.
Niggers are within the genus of Homo Sapien, while the races are different species within that genus.
Think of it like this, Panthera Tigris is the genus of all tiger species, but the Bengal tiger and the siberian tiger are two distinct species within the same genus.
If a Bengal and a siberian are distinct enough to warrant classifications as being different species, then surely it isn't unreasonable to expect that Europeans and Africans are different species as well. Especially when you consider big differences in cranial capacity, frontal lobe size, body proportions, and yes, even IQ.
Given this, the next question is likely "where does morality end and begin between species/genus?" I don't know, to be safe, I'd suggest that a universal morality within the homo sapien genus wouldn't be an unreasonable assumption. But then, it's really on the line when you think about it. Probably closer to that line than we want to admit, because the more different our genes, the more likely we are to dehumanize an individual. And this isn't a "white guilt" thing, in talking about ALL RACES of ALL HUMANS across ALL TIME.
Homo Sapiens, in an absence of ethics, are just fucking brutal to people who don't look like their own in-group/tribe.
No it isn't evil. Predators eat prey. Raising animals in a nice environment, giving them a nice life, and then killing them humanely is not evil.
I'm not butthurt or anything about everyone has to assimilate and all that I just wanted to know more context. It's interesting saying that different races are different species. The whole no racemixing makes more sense now and that story about god knocking down the tower people were trying to build to reach heaven comes to mind. So it's not so much that it's about rascism and being racist it's more that we must look out for our own kind and we have different cultural history and and more inclined to behave a certain way eg crime rates. What about people that do racemix. What is their species/identity and do they even last over generations or will one side or race eventually take over the other one. Like after a few generations a kid randomly has red hair.
Racemixing is two people nuking their long term genetic viability. One of the two individuals genetic blood line will go extinct in a couple generations, because the nature of genetics inevitably breeds out certain genes in favor of others, based on the dominance and ratio of genes in each genetic pairing.
So is it immoral within the scope of the homo sapien genus? Probably.
Humans almost always tend to look down on mixed individuals and treat them as second class citizens, and similarly, the individual who is mixed, invariably tries to latch on to and identify with one race or the other they're mixed with, and find it difficult to accept both parts of their genetic heritage. They may love their parents, but they tend to identify with one or the other.
Just look at Barack Obama, the guy is half white, he grew up with his white mother and his white grandparents, the guy never really knew his black father, and yet he chose to identify with the black community, and now with his daughters, he married a black woman, and his mother's white genes are basically extinct in his blood line when you look at his daughters.
Ultimately, it's difficult to say if miscegenation is strictly a moral issue or if it more lies within the realm of ethics, but I lean toward the side that it's immoral to "sin" against your ancestors, yourself, and your offspring in such a manner. You're making a decision that will affects several generations, which accounts for a huge number of negative factors they will all inevitably have to face in their lives.
Sorry for rudeness fren, i was in a bad zone.
Just eat organs and muscle meat and as you grow accustomed you will feel out how much you need . Your body and cravings (when not corrupted by jew foods) will tell you . Best of luck on ur health journey user
Good for the soul.
Good for the body.
Good for the planet.
There is nothing immoral about killing vegans, prove me wrong.
You're a repulsive swine.