I'm going to go ahead and actually reply to these points on their own but op you should know these are all "No u" embodied. Not even Furr could get this deluded. Not exactly but Stalin wasn't innocent. The best way to explain things is that they entered a mutual agreement knowing they'd both eventually fight each other. The two definitely weren't going to share influence over Eurasia, not by a long shot and both knew this. Pic related is the best possible explanation for their relationship. They completely did, are we going to seriously bring up Katyn and the rest even though the first thread we had on the subject ended with Tankie denialists being laughed out of the board once the Gob Diary expert got posted, proving there was no way of faking the Soviet involvement in also killing thousands of Poles? Not sure what the hell you're even suggesting here this one was totally true, you saying the agreement was different or something? Who the fuck ever even suggested this, they were the direct enemy, the claim that is often made is that it would have been better– well easier for the British to surrender to the Nazi's and let them continue on their merry way, Hitler was too much of a western cocksucker to ever fully invade the West unless he absolutely had to. No one but capitalists claim they were heroes, not like they fought against capitalism after the war. Not true. 2 million death toll, or so it's claimed, the rape stuff probably never went over a thousand.
Defensive or not Stalin was always autistic about land-grabbing for "defense" like with Finland, and after the war, not an excuse.
There isn't a more limited hangout than this right here. Marxists.org is such an unaccessible trash website, half the shit you click on in that site is some mundane who the fuck knows what from the 1920s holy fuck.
Adrian Ortiz
Honestly, why bother with denying Katyn. Those osadniks deserved it for their crimes in 1921 and their imperialist occupation of Western Belarus and Western Ukraine.
- Gabriel Kolko, The Politics of War: The World and United States Foreign Policy, 1943–1945. (1968) p. 105.
retarded Russian liberals who don't know that Generalplan Ost was a thing.
Hunter King
I didn't and technically no one here has it's been close to a year now since then. Oh my fucking god it'll be two years since this board has been created soon. I mean was there anyone in Europe who didn't deserve it? I've heard Zig Forums point out Poland as being just as fascist at the time and of course Katyn was a massacre of officials making the whole thing pointless regardless of who killed them but even then Hitler was right about the Swiss too, they all needed to get fucked, it's just a shame Stalin nor Hitler managed to at last accelerate the process enough to take out the US and Britain. The ravenous destruction of modern Europe could have quite possibly led to another beneficial rebirth much like when Rome collapsed fully and the Byzantines went North. Take it up with >>>/2ch/ then, everyone here's a burger, or someone outside of Russia even if they're close by like in Ukraine or Moldova. I've never once heard anyone outside of there besides Zig Forums ever call a bunch of autists who spent their time willingly going out to hunt a bunch of foot soldiers heroes.
James Martinez
Ok, but he was still right about Poland and Poland was fucked whether or not Russia got fucked in the process.
Tyler Ward
You're right but you should have elaborated more on your post.
Cooper Torres
It's simple. It straight up didn't happen. Soviet POWs went through SMERSH filtration but only those found actually guilty of collaboration were sent to prison… and the number of POWs who were sent to prison was a miniscule portion of the total POW numbers.
Furr admits that SOME officers were executed but only a few select criminals. All evidence points to the fact that the majority of the Polish Officers were, in fact, killed by the Germans after they captured the area where the Polish Officers were Interned. Yuri Muhin wrote an extensive book on the subject that I suggest you read.
Never heard of that, 2 million deaths of whom? Where? Russian liberals and several Westerners who base this on the fact that Generalplan Ost was not finalized officially.
Daniel Cooper
Katynskii Detektiv (1995) is no where to be found online, maybe on some book tracker or torrent/pdf site but I don't use those. So I'll have to address Moon Landing Denial Man's claims from others word of mouth. So Hitler directly ordered, during wartime, in the highest of priority ordered his soldiers directly, not Gobbles or any other officials just his soldiers directly to find their mass graves again for propaganda? Something which Gobbles was in charge of but he was never informed of? It's been confirmed Katyn had officers both shot through the neck and head. I doubt execution ethics played a role outside of the Union. And that's unfortunately all I could find. No other major claims were made by people online saying what he said. Neonazi's who claim the end of the war absolutely devastated Germany and left 2-9 million dead. But I don't give a shit if it did. I'm just regurgitating their claim. Britain was guilty of doing similar things in WW1 and their whole fiasco is juicier anyways.
Colton Robinson
Discrediting his work on katyn by taking a jab at his statements about the Moon is a low blow. He was perfectly aware of the situation. and they hid the evidence of their crime brilliantly. "Unfortunately, German ammunition has been found in the graves at Katyn. It is essential that this incident remains top secret. If it were to come to the knowledge of the enemy the whole Katyn affair would have to be dropped."
Samuel Campbell
Ethics? Sure. Protocol? Not so much. Soviet standard execution practice was to have a firing squad or more efficiently a machine gun. The process of shooting them one by one in the back of the head was pointless. Moreover the bullets in the head were German and the actual ballistics determined that it couldn't be the standard pistol of the USSR at the time, the Tokarev TT, because the TT was far too powerful. Ah, Ok then
Also why would Hitler order Goebbels about finding the graves when he was propaganda minister?
pg 332, April 17, 1943 - ''"The Katyn incident is developing into a gigantic political affair which may have wide repercussions. We are exploiting it in every manner possible. So long as ten to twelve thousand polish victims have sacrificed their lives anyway - probably not entirely without their fault, for they were the real instigators of this war - they might as well now serve to open the eyes of the peoples of Europe about Bolshevism.
In the evening, a Globe Reuter reporter reached us containing a declartion by the Polish Government-in-exile. This declaration changes the whole Katyn affair fundementally in that the Polish Government-in-exile now demands that the International Red Cross take part in the investigation. That suits us perfectly. I immediately contacted the Fuehrer, who gave me permission to send a telegram to the International Red Cross, requesting it to collaborate to the greatest extenet possible in identifying corpses. This telegram is signed by the Duke of Colburg and Gotha, whose name is well known in England and who has many family connections there. In that way, in my opinion, something has been started the reprecussions of which we simply can't imagine yet."''
If you note, the Red Cross members and others invited by the Germans to look at the bodies described how the bodies were 'sanitized' documents and personal possessions dated from 1941 or older were missing, despite the Soviet Investigation finding large numbers of documents such as letters, diary excerpts and other things dating to 1941 and some even longer
This is derailing so I'll just link you these 3 links, summarizing the basics of the points on Katyn.
