Brainpill me on the Ukrainian famine of 1933.
How many people died as a result of starvation or disease? One, three, ten millions?
Was it caused by natural causes such as drought, plant rust and crop infestation?
Was it a result of gross economic mismanagement following the first five-year plan?
Was it initiated by resisting kulaks engaging in wrecking, sabotage and grain hoarding?
Was it a deliberate hunger plan engineered to weaken Ukrainians as an ethnic group?
Between two and four million. That is if you use actual academic sources instead of nazi asspulling which every anti-communist shamelessly copies.
Yes, mostly drought AFAIK.
Not at all, collectivization actually prevented more deaths.
Hell yes.
Hell no. Not only was there no plan to weaken Ukrainians (reactionary Ukrainians have a godawful persecution complex), there would've been better ways to do it than engineering a famine.
As much as reactionaries like to insist that Ukraine was mistreated as part of the Soviet Union, it suffered the most from capitalist restoration and is to this day at 60% of 1990 GDP. Pretty much every other former soviet republic has managed to recover (ofcourse, they did miss out on a decade or two of growth)
Meanwhile, capitalist restoration caused around 7 million excess deaths and mass emigration, it did significantly more damage to the former soviet republics than the "holodomor" ever did.
Pretty much this. Anything else is or could be very short of just being plain anticommunist propaganda.
I should have asked in the OP to please provide reputable sources (ie no blogspots, etc) to back up your claims.
Here is a list of all the anti communist memes. They get debunked and they provide sources. A lot of them. Read here instead of posting shit threads
you wanna, uh, post them?
airc there's a video by some iraqi(?) guy called "Comrade Hakim" on YouTube called "Why the Holodomor Narrative is Wrong" and he has sources in his description for his points
might not be what you're looking for though
holy fuck this is a big boy list
good shit, user!
Yeah, this comrade J guy is pretty based. You can use this for everything from Zig Forumsyps to liberals
Timothy Snyder, Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin, p.53
Great videos and sources about this:
youtube.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
(The sources are in the description)
Famine was not uncommon in Russia or any of its surrounding countries, historically it was common. The collectivization was done to mitigate famine as the Kulaks, as had been experienced before in the 1921–22, refused to sell their grain (grain which they had not grown themselves) affordably or distribute it to the more urban industrial centers who could not grow grain themselves. Last time when the government stepped in to seize the grain due to mass starvation, the Kulaks began destroying it rather then see people not starve. When the Soviets decided that the only option was to seize the farms at that point, the Kulaks began killing their livestock as well. What Stalin did with collectivization was a preemtive measure to prevent this and it probably ended up saving lives that would have otherwise been lost. It also doesn't make sense for Stalin to have purposely starved the location of Ukraine that was hit hardest as that area was the most Pro-Stalin.
It was largely a failure of the Soviet command economy, which was too monolithic and bureaucratic to handle difficult situations. There is no evidence that it was intentional. This is mainly claimed by Ukrainian nationalists that think everyone cares about their ethnic group as they do, and American neocons that think leftist government is literally Satan.
Funnily enough, for some reason, americans reconize it as a crime of stalin but not a genocide
...
Nationalists are hypocrites that willingly abuse political correctness whenever it conveniences them. This is much harder to do with any real efficacy in the US.
Goddammit Canada
Isn't there a huge Ukrainian diaspora living there? Might explain some of it
Yeah, I believe so. fucking kulaks
The American Communists bullied them out of Chicago
Good source
some of you are alright, don't come to kronstadt tomorrow
First order as the General Secretary of the United Soviets of America is annex Canada and Mexico.
Can you tell me more about this?
anarchists would surely take any opportunity to discredit the USSR as a state-capitalist nightmare
so how come nowhere near the amount of people died from the dustbowl in the US?
Were the material conditions of rural america same ukraine? Is the weather in rural America as shitty as Ukraine?
death to the slavic pigs slavic people should be genocided more kill them all.
And the dust bowl didn't have nearly as large an impact as Ukraine would have considering the size of affected areas and that historically, Ukraine is the bread basket of eastern Europe.
An area in the US that's poor for agriculture to begin with and got fucked because the farmers ripped out the topsoil is much smaller scale
they still do the same thing in the US to this day, it's insane how much energy and money gets pumped into the area just for politics and appearances
What "anarchists" were you talking to? "an"caps?
Thanks pal.
He has a point, lots of anarchists regurgitate anti-communist lies.