Idpol

The problem with leftypol is that people refuse to have a nuanced position on idpol. People cant just say "BPP was largely idpol, however it was mostly justified", they have to say it wasn't idpol cus they like it.
People on this board also sometimes use being "anti-idpol" to mask reactionary views, and often the most vehemently "anti-idpol" people actually engage in anti-lgbt/anti-black idpol themselves.
Idpol is not inherently good or bad. Being religiously pro/anti-idpol is usually reactionary.

I'm not a big fan of BPP

No, they're pretty open about their own exceptionalism.

I pretty much agree. Most of the time the problem with "identity politics" is not the fact that it's politics focused on issues affecting a specific group of people (black people, gays, women, whatever), but in the stupid, ineffective and/or cynical way it's used. Language policing, viciously attacking normies for how they dress (muh cultural appropriation), digging through old tweets by a political opponent in order to find something that could be misinterpreted as racist, using "diversity" to promote neoliberalism and war, coming up with idpol-justifications for shutting down conversation or just being an asshole (it's not my job to educate you, stop mansplaining, muh emotional labor), etc. etc. etc.

Indeed. I think this describes the issue very well.

Idpol is just a shitty name that leftypol has for "reactionary liberalism"
Also most apologetics for "idpol" in circles like these use the bpp, Zapatistas, and Pan-African movements as examples of good "idpol" despite the fact that there main concerns were based on materiel realities.
I'd also make the argument that good segments of the BLM movement where non idpol people merely concerned about racism in police departments. However there leadership was undoubtably idpol zed out

Screencap this if you must.

For me, idpol itself doesn't bother me. I can acknowledge that there are real issues which are, yes, material in nature that cannot be solved simply by workers seizing the factories.

What does bother me, however, is the methodology used by most contemporary idpolers: postmodernism.

I'm what you would call an "old foggie". I'm in my 30s. I graduated from high school in 2004, went to a very expensive American liberal arts college and got my BA in the humanities in 2008, took a few years off to travel around the US doing lefty/anarchist stuff, then finally went back to grad school right before Occupy started. Both my undergrad and grad school years fed me absolutely nothing but postmodernism: deconstruction, post-Lacanian crap, queer theory, postcolonial theory, "muh spaces", "muh bodies", you get the idea. The major issue I had with PoMo was, quite simply, it outright denies the existence of an "out there". Everything is about *your* mind, *your* feels (as they say), entirely solipsistic. PoMo doesn't tell you how to make a logical or ethical case for your feels; it only teaches you how to gaslight your opponents ("you only disagree with me because you've been fed capitalist ideology/your mind has been colonized", etc.). And that's the exact issue: by denying the existence of an "out there" - and the notion that truth can, in fact, be known beyond your personal feels - you're also denying the real-world consequences of your positions.

Let's take an example of how this plays out in reality: Zionism. Now, I couldn't care less if Jews want to live in Palestine or not. What I strongly dislike is how Zionists will *always* resort to calling any critics of Israel "antisemitic" even if their criticisms are universally accepted and/or aren't even aimed at Jews themselves but solely at the Israeli government or military. That's what I mean when I say shitty methodology. If you can't defend Israel by any other means other than "I think", "I feel", or "you're a meany for disagreeing with me" then you can't defend it at all.

Now let's take a look at another example from the other side of the Green Line: Sunni Muslims are acting a hell of a lot like Zios in the sense where they play up hysteria and then attack anyone who disagrees with them as an "islamophobe". They claim they're being attacked by literally everyone: Russia, China, India, Myanmar, Europe, America, Israel, random Jews, Christians, Shias, atheists, secularists, feminists, commies, Hegelian intellectuals like Zizek, I could go on forever. Whether or not these groups actually *are* attacking them is beside the point; they *feel* under attack, and they *feel* anyone who questions the validity of their feels just hates them, without needing to give any logical justification for it. And, like Zionists, they demand their own authoritarian religious states as the solution. Why? Because feels.

So yes, fuck postmodernism. It is the real cancer we should be calling out, not issues outside of class in general.

But both of these things came about due to changing economic roles, industrialisation made slavery less viable in the way it had been, and women's growing economic role meant they demanded a say in society. Idpol is based mostly on changing the effects of the system rather than the causes.

Patriarchy and white supremacy ARE material realities, my friend.

Again, your enemy isn't issues outside of class; your enemy is PoMo and its denial of absolute truth.

No, because as far as I know, abolishionists and suffragettes weren't calling for self-segregation or special treatment of any kind, like modern SJWs are doing, but called for nothing more and nothing less than equal treatment.

So what do you make of racist kibbutzim, or unions which excluded non-whites? What about cooperatives which contribute to gentrification? Workers have the MoP in every case and yet it isn't complete enough to end racist tendencies.

Attached: soviet woman vs modern SJW.jpg (528x512, 91.18K)

Maybe in the 1950’s but defiantly not in the modern west.

I really hope you're kidding. If white supremacy no longer existed in the West, how do you explain black individuals being killed by cops every 28 hours? If patriarchy is no longer a thing, why is male-on-female rape so fucking common?

I'm not saying I agree with all the intersectional crap, but it's just plain wrong to say we've overcome patriarchy and WS.

Individual racism and sexism do exist, but it isn’t part of the current capitalist system. They don’t exist on a systemic level, only an individual level.

In most police shootings the victim isn’t Black.

Hormones and alienation

You're just straight up lying or misrepresenting the facts at this point.

Feminism, chiefly the liberal-idiocy of the West, is all pervasive in films today, ranging from that outrageously forced Wonder Woman film, to the current heroes of animated tv series.

pbs.twimg.com/media/Bxt591jIAAAKEVB.jpg

This false-feminism is only a barrier to class-consciousness and gives the right leverage to present the left as degenerates, despite that being untrue for most leftists. Communist must pick who they support rather than supporting every Sally Sobstory, because we run the risk of supporting absolutely rotten, manipulative people who's petty machinations make the rest of us look just as rotten.

Movements like fat acceptance and BLM are bourgeoisie bullshit posing as legitimate movements. Body acceptance ought to be for breast cancer victims, acid-attack victims, cripples, and those with genetic diseases, NOT fatties (discounting glandular issues) who refuse to try and better their bodies through conscious effort.
BLM was started and led by rich black college students who never suffered the suffering they claim to want to remedy, and they promote segregation of blacks saying that they should keep to one another and not try and integrate. They have pushed for the unfair demand of reparations from ALL white people for the crimes of their ancestors, despite the fact that the white american's descendants do not carry the blame for their abuse of African-american's ANCESTOR'S and that only 30% of Americans owned slaves and only slightly more had anything to do with chattel slavery in general. AND this ignores the forgotten fact that it was AFRICAN TRIBES who sold these Africans to the slavers.

The same goes for Western Feminism, at this point their demands are retarded, their claims are based on bad data, and the right wing exploits this to discredit the whole movement and justify the opposite. Among these is rape claims, a rape claim is just that, a claim. Without evidence, or previous history this is baseless attention seeking.

rich black people face little discrimination, it has nothing to do with race, not any more. It has to do with money, and poor people are discriminated as not profitable customers. Additionally things like Affirmative Action, race quotas and other black-only benefits actually give them a leg up above poor whites because they give companies the illusionary look of being inclusive. The assertion of white privileged is a complete lie, and only give racist intellectuals the perfect ammo to shoot down LEGITIMATE civil rights movements. The majority of white people do not have any privilege whatsoever and asserting otherwise is racist in itself.

youtube.com/watch?v=pbccGbPKwok

youtube.com/watch?v=dEuHJqjeqLY

"Is wrong for somebody to say that racially motivated killing of young black men by police is disgusting and wrong if they have not themselves suffered such police brutality? "

In and of itself no, but these rich shits aren't doing this because of the goodness of their hearts, they're getting something out of it - money, fame etc. Additionally race based police brutality is not a systematic problem, they claim it is. Ironically many of these police brutalities involve BLACK cops.

slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/10/diversity_won_t_solve_police_misconduct_black_cops_don_t_reduce_violence.html

Also if they really cared about black lives, how about they protest the slavery in Africa TODAY, where blacks are selling blacks to Arabs as slaves for people like Saudi Sheiks. Priorities much?

The Male-Female wage gap is based on the fallacy of making an average. Women generally don't work higher paying jobs that are often DANGEROUS jobs. This means that comparing jobs that aren't the same is idiotic. Yes some places have this, but that is an individual basis, and not to the extent that is claimed, (75 cents to a dollar is a lie). Additionally women usually don't work full-time jobs because they have children who they have to take care of by biological position, thus they work less hours over-all and rake in a smaller wage. The problem also isn't men vs women, it's poor vs rich, the men vs women dynamic is created to set the working class against itself based on race, and sex.

I don't oppose rights movements, I oppose falsely conscious, lazy, manipulative liberals who divide the working class for non-prioritized bullshit.

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Their videos encourage the idea that all whites are racist, whites all have privilege and that they should check their privilege (What the FUCK does that mean), and they are more than justifiably aggressive, as I have experienced dozens of times personally. A movement that inspired 5 teens to attack an autistic white kid, kidnapping him for 2 days, forcing him to drink toilet water, beating him and attempting a scalping is fucked up, especially as many of the movement either said "fuck that white boy, he got what was coming to him" or tried to distance the event from BLM despite the perps clearly saying BLM slogans and screaming about Trump.

youtube.com/watch?v=mYtB4smQkaE

A) Cops are just as brutal to whites as to Blacks when they do abuse them

B) Blacks are only 13% of the population, yet account for 50% of the crime. Additionally, many blacks, rather than try and behave like fucking people, instead nurture the "thug life" mentality and harass blacks who try to be civilized as "Uncle Toms", thus continuing the encouragement for bad behavior and the justification of bad stereotypes, thus encouraging police suspicion of the black population. There is a reason this exists, and screaming about it and behaving like apes, hooting and screaming slogans that are no less racist than the people they oppose does not change it. Black people are the minority in America, they want change? Being violent doesn't work, they are not majority who can force it, they have to play the game and beat the racists at it by being better than them, so that they can righteously say, "we are no less civilized, your racism is baseless". There is no other way, a Nazi masturbation fantasy will end up with Blacks in America annihilated, and African blacks can't do shit, since they can't deal with their own problems, if you think the U.N. would step in, you're wrong, since they didn't step in at Guantanamo, or any other violation of human rights the US has shown.

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BLM plays a victim/race card when in most cases it was more than just that and that white people are no more free, but because they lack this race card the abuses against them by cops are just counted into the statistics and are ignored from the humanitarian point of view.

copblock.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Kelly-Thomas-CopBlock.jpg

time.com/4404987/police-violence/

nypost.com/2017/09/26/all-that-kneeling-ignores-the-real-cause-of-soaring-black-homicides/

The overall crime rates are about 51%, which is still insane considering their minority status. What is even more insane is that they make up around 80% of the HOMICIDE stats.

In 2010, the population of america was roughly 308.7 Million, 223.6 million (M) were white
(www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-05.pdf ) and 14% black, 43.2 M

(www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/2010_census/cb11-cn185.html )

62,593 White on Black crimes (WoB), let's make that 0.062 M
320,082 Black on white crimes (BoW), let's make it 0.320 M

0.062 M victims of WoB crime of a population of 43.2 M, .0602M / 43.2M = 0.00144 % of the Black population affected.

0.320 M victims of BoW crimes of a population of 223.6 M, 0.320M / 223.6 M = 0.00143%

So the percentage of people affected by violent crimes of one group against the other is the same, though the black minority is 5x smaller.

Stats for the equation:

bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf

bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cvus08.pdf

The sociology of why the minority affects the majority as much as the majority affects them is already a discussion of the system which we both know is broken.

general stats:

ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables

aim.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Officers-Killed-Simpson-Black-Criminals-White-Victims-and-White-Guilt-1024x563.jpg

isgp-studies.com/miscellaneous/crime-numbers-black/homicide-murder-rates-blacks-whites-united-states-interracial-crime-1980-2008.png

unamusementpark.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/flyer1_crime.jpg

Now I am not the first to admit that there is an obvious possibility of bias in data presentation, HOWEVER, it is undeniable that Black crime is far higher than it should be for a group of 40 million in a country of 300 million.

Most large business have diversity quotas where they will literally give a less qualified black man a position over a Caucasian male for the sake of diversity. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_quota

I'm not some naive tard who believes there isn't real racism alive and well in the US, but it's clear that African-Americans have to start by working through their racial issues. But instead of being proactive and lobbying for change, (the way MLK did not how BLM is), they wait for retarded shit like at Ferguson so as to latch onto (out of self-imprinted ignorance) and rally behind an inaccurate narrative. And the people who hold prejudices against them can go with the "oh, well there they go, being black again!" narrative and use their rioting as the perfect justification.

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This straight up Zig Forums shit.

How? I'm arguing that its a liberal movement that fellates capitalism and plays on identity exceptionalism

Nobody denies that police in general use excessive violence that affects more people other than just blacks, but the difference is that historically cops have been MORE prone to do so considering the demographic and social nature of American law enforcement. Also, being part of a demographic that causes more crime doesn't excuse the brutality that is used. It's safe to say considering the pattern of deaths among unarmed blacks that the police exercise this brutality on the basis of race hence the outrage. BLM is co-opted by liberals sure, but to dismiss it so entirely on the basis of "police are brutal equally and blacks cause more crime so therefor I don't see what they're complaining about" is Zig Forums-tier.

Most of what you said was fine but
While not Zig Forums tier sounds like it’s from /r/the_donald

I don't think these crime rate stats are totally acurate. Blacks and whites for instance smoke weed at nearly the same rate and yet blacks are much much more likely to be convicted for weed. I don't see why this couldn't be similar with other crimes.

Back to >>>Zig Forums with you nazbol, I didn't even read your post I just saw the image. Afrocentrism is confirmed, the out of Africa theory was confirmed, stop being an assmad Zig Forumstard who's sad he's race mixed and not even 56% even though he's European, hell they even reconfirmed it with the recent "British were originally black" findings. Stop denying it. Blacks have unironically had presence everywhere in the ancient world including pre Columbian contact. Read a fucking book.

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You are giving credit to idpolers who neglect class all together, by essentialising feminists and anti-racist activists through claims they don't care about class *at all*. I'm absolutely not one of those PoMo queerios, but some of the best feminists I know are also socialists or anarchists. Some of the most radical black activists I know are also strongly anti-capitalist, albeit they approach it from an anti-racist perspective rather than a class reductionist one (meaning, they DO see rich black people as part of the bourgeoisie, but will acknowledge worker control of the MoP doesn't weed out racism naturally).

People like you and Roo are one reason why we have all of these false dichotomies of "SJWs vs. class reductionists" in the first place: this extreme hostility to feminists and black/anti-racist activism on the basis of "it's not materialist" or "it divides the working class" drives feminists and anti-racists to their respected one-dimensional positions.

Which proves that you're a complete moron. In fact I don't think you even looked at the image carefully you buffoon.

Your making excuses. How desperate are you people?

Where are you taking this from? how do you know this?

From your image:
You clearly haven't even looked at the very image you downloaded dumbfuck, after that you're not in any position to claim your opinion has enough value to even be paid attention to.
Get the fuck out.
>>>Zig Forums

Look, I'm no fan of Pomo shit. See my post here:

I've seen the worst of the worst in my 14+ years in leftist activism and academia, shit you wouldn't even believe. Yet I am in no way a brocialist or one who belittles anti-racism struggles like most of this board.

00,000 years ago dosn’t matter today.

The Ancient world didn’t exist tell 10,000 years ago. Long after Humans outside of Subsaharan Africa split up with Subsaharan Humans. No paintings of European, or Middle Eastern Kings showed black people. Afrocentrism is just retarted edgy nationalism.

Actually if you observe, it makes sense In the 198s Reagan and the CIA started running drugs from Columbia, and then framing the Panthers and other leftists in America as druggies and arresting their leaders. At the same time they began pushing them into ghettos. Gangs began to form and the ideas of the past where white people and black people ought to walk hand in hand was discarded for the idea of being thug-life. This was only enforced by black-feminists who asserted black men as animals and that they ought to be treated as such (see pic). This became a self-perpetuating issue.

The idea that thug-life mentality is self-perpetuated is not mine, it is that of Tupac, Chappelle and other people of tremendous insight.

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Excuse you it's partial edgy nationalism.
A lot of things are true like Ethiopian and African involvement in Greece Rome and Egypt, and Africa did make pre Columbian contact, there were race mixed monarchs as well.

This might be an "imperialist" source but:
washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/06/04/the-blackwhite-marijuana-arrest-gap-in-nine-charts/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ba8ebcf94371

I have you ignoramus. The problem isn't blacks, its how you talk, if you read a word i said in my essay that are the 3 posts you'd know what I was talking about. But you don't cause you're a tard. I'm hiding all your responses from here on out because you're literally an SJW in denial.

That is a garbage ass source. It's like those "muh women with/without children wages vs men graphs. Statistical manipulation of the worst kind.

You've got a very similar rhetoric.

In what way?

Yes, European and Asian Monarchs Intermarried.

Attached: Proofs?.png (1600x800, 70.53K)

Women are oppressed. They do large amounts of domestic labor that society ignores as non-value creating. Also read Origin of the family. Its still somewhat true today.

Yes, and we need to keep in mind that superstructure is as significant as the base, as the base is dependent upon the superstructure for its reproduction.

I don't know about you, OP, but personally? THIS is why I became a leftist.

Toxic masculinity needs to go! Skin care products for all men!

Attached: SA9oPADzTLxecUm1cZsmN0h9btfqfJZjj712-TEvY0Q.png (1024x734, 258.86K)

tfw you're being ironic but what you're saying isn't even wrong

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I posted knowing that many here would unironically agree. It's fun to see how far leftypol has fallen.

user you need to care for your skin

I don't really see whats wrong with skin care products for men

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The less acne I see on a daily basis, the better.

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Look, the point on more resources against blacks may be partially true, BUT even considering that, let's say 50% of black crimes are exaggerated/falsified etc., the difference is still 2.5x more crime from them than whites, when considering the ratio of whites and blacks. You can't attribute every single one as "racism", this isn't the 1930s.

slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/10/diversity_won_t_solve_police_misconduct_black_cops_don_t_reduce_violence.html

Also if they really cared about black lives, how about they protest the slavery in Africa TODAY, where blacks are selling blacks to Arabs as slaves for people like Saudi Sheiks. Priorities much?

the stats used don't select a man and woman by job but ALL men and women across all jobs which creates a gap due to many women working less hours (because they raise the children) and thus creating a larger statistical gap than in reality. The man/woman gap in current companies is due to individual basis and because that is how capitalism works, on the employer's decision. The feminist movement is pushing for reform, which isn't going to cut it any more, reformism only gets us so far.

That's capitalism and not a women only problem it is part of a class problem, not a separate issue that requires a separate campaign. In a socialist state mothers and wives are set aside their own set of labouring hours (half-time) instead of fulltime to allow for their taking care of the home.

Family interaction is among the most important in the development in a child. There is hardly anything more important and vital to a child than family. Girls and boys alike require careful and loving parents who will share their love, knowledge, and experience with them. Moreover, family is paramount to grownups too. One can live and work alone, but it is impossible to become a truly self-sufficient person without family.

In the USA, after the 60s the lack of economic ability for a single parent to support the whole family forces the child to be postponed, and causing the child to be left with baby-sitters, which meant the child was shuttled around and care for by people who didn't actually have much investment in them and the result was the child being as apathetic to their own kin and to others, as their kin and others were to them. This is in part pushed by capitalism, because prior to that, the joint and nuclear families in the US raised a generation of kind thoughtful people, who raised Cain when the USA began the Vietnam war. After that tragic war, liberal feminist ideas of having women "not be forced into gender roles" - (which is based on a debunked study by Dr. Money who's social experiments were Dr. Mengel levels of fucked up) - were funded by corporations who sought to create a social apathy (in conjointment with the arrests and assassinations of the movements leaders, so that the civil rights movements and anti-war movements could never gain any major support ever again.

TL;DR: the family unit is more than important, socialism actually does support a family unit's existence, as it is the preparation to entering society. Capitalism destroys this, not because it is not necessary for humanity, but because it stands in the way in creating a better market flow with less ethical qualms.

In Notes of a Native Son, James Baldwin (and important figure of the Civil Rights movement) states that, "It seems to be typical of life in America, where opportunities real and fancied, are thicker than anywhere else on the glove, that the second generation has no time to talk to the first." (Pg 51)

Or in another of his works, "I am certain that… again like most whites they have nothing against Negros, that's really not the question. The question is really a kind of apathy and ignorance, which is the price we paid for segregation. It’s what segregation means, you don’t know what’s happening on the other side of the wall because you don’t want to know.”
– James Baldwin, I AM NOT YOUR NEGRO

"Is a biological duty not a job?" No, that very attitude is why families today are mostly disjointed and apathetic to one another, (and some people expect empathy from strangers, when they can't empathize with one another). Is a child a suitable reward you ask? When you have a child or raise a child from birth to college, you might understand, asking such a question is that of naiive ignorance, aside from motherly instinct, there is a melancholy joy in watching a child grow before your eyes. I think the current generation has forgotten this. As for labor danger, I'm not talking about a communist society, I'm talking about a capitalist society, which is our reality, even in the USSR workers had equal pay but in ration to the danger and effort needed for their jobs, thus an engineer would receive MORE than a politician, as would a doctor or a nuclear scientist. Dangerous jobs that men tend to go into and women do not, are often higher paying and with more benefits than something that women often do, like office work. This is not an issue of man and woman but of the ineffectivity and broken-ness of capitalism.

Lastly if you people genuinly think that idpol is good, you are literally no different than the nazis.

BLM: promotes the idea of blacks being the best, even going as far as to make shit up with the cultural appropriation rubbish. think that whites are the source of all problems

White Supremacists: Promotes the idea of whites being the best and that all black people are in some way racist. Thinks blacks are the and other races are the source of all problems.

This has nothing to do with toxic masculinity and everything to do with pigheaded stupidity. In the past men were expected to look their best. The reason they don't care anymore is because no-one sets standards. If someone tries they're seen as conservative and oppressive

I like how stacheposter ITT straight up uses rw lolbert vlogs as sources.
Though the guy in the "white privilege is dead" video had a point about racism mostly affecting the propetryless

yeah along side federal crime statistics and carefully selected articles from sources that are quite liberal or neutral. Not to mention a ton of other stuff. But hey lets be selective, why not.

I don't completely disagree, black culture is reactionary, in the same way that jewish culture was reactionary in Tsarist Russia.

I wouldn't say black culture as a whole, but rather modern african-american culture. In France you don't see this (despite France's far more direct crimes against POC) mostly because they let bygones be bygones.

In Russia Jews were persecuted because of western bankers (who coincidentally were often Jewish) were considered the enemies of the state. Thus by Tsarist logic they ought to destroy their 'underlings' and thus create pogroms on innocent jews. This allowed said bankers to prey on their fears and incite reactionary thought. This was largely blocked in the USSR, but with its fall has returned, (as can be seen in today's political circles.

I wouldn't smear BLM entirely. Yes, there are shitty idpol elements, but the core of the movement is opposition to police brutality and mass incarceration. On that alone, I think every communist should support it.

I simply asked for one definition. Preferably 1-3 sentences. If you think this constitutes an effort post you need to reevaluate yourself.

What the fuck kind of feels based conjecture is this?

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Look boring as fuck

Style wise, they still look like less boring faggots than the former photo. They're still faggots nonetheless.

This is an imageboard, can't we all admit we're all faggots here? Homo or nohomo, the underlying essence that keeps all the chans together is our faggotry!

Beyond all the divisiveness and autism, the spiritual faggotry that every poster/lurker on 8ch.net has is the very thing that keeps us bonded together despite our beliefs.

Let's all be frendz!

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wow do you have no idea what you're talking about
Also this fucking reddit spacing.

Kanye doesn't dress regularly like that, most people dressed like that.
As for that photo
1) They look nothing like modern shit-stains.
2) this is their stage clothes.

inb4 unironic use of "soyboy"

100% Zig Forums teir

Fuck that, skin care products are filled with actually toxic chemicals. Women shouldn’t even be using them.

No one gives a shit about your autistic sargon tier rants. Literally kys.
stalin stache users are never older than 16, prove me wrong

Again, if you really do believe this shit is an issue (which it is NOT), your enemy is postmodernism, NOT feminism, NOT BLM, but the method which causes those groups to go down the toilet.

I can provide you a list of the worst of the worst shit I've experienced in my 14+ years being spoonfed PoMo shit in both the classroom and streets.

I have seen Occupy get attacked for being allegedly too white-male-centric.

I have seen the Black Bloc and ANTIFA be harshly criticized for being primarily made up of white activists.

I have seen Jewish feminists get called "white supremacists" simply for speaking out against the forms of woman-hating in *their* own culture, because they were talking about something other than Palestine (the notion being, Jews have to self-flagellate for Palestine 24/7 or else they're all bloodthirsty Zios).

I have seen Muslim women get criticized for taking off their hijabs, on the basis that their minds were "colonized".

I have seen black, brown, and Native comrades be harangued for being communists as opposed to ethnic/cultural nationalists.

I have seen white female comrades *apologize* for having been abused by men of color. One woman in my group was actually raped by her Lebanese boyfriend yet didn't want to tell anyone on the basis that her "whiteness" is what overwhelmed him so much that he raped her out of anti-colonial revenge (I'm not kidding, these were her words, not mine).

I have seen feminists get labeled TERFs for talking about issues specific to female-bodied people, like abortion access.

I've seen leftists attack any theorist or philosopher - especially ones from generations ago - who had shitty views of race/gender. "Proudhon and Bakunin were bad because they were sexist and antisemitic", "Foucault was a pedophile," etc. (The irony being, they take a fuckton of their theories from Foucault.)

So yes, I've seen the worst of the worst. And yet I'm still not against idpol entirely.

One other thing:

"You're on STOLEN LAND."

Anyone who says this non-ironically is just guilt-tripping you into obeying them. No one except the hardcore primmies and turd worldists believes the entirety of North America can just be "handed back to the Natives." It's nothing more than a slogan of blackmail, guilt, obligation.

Post modernism is caused by capitalism and thus is a symptom of it. BLM and third-wave feminism are a symptom of that.
So you don't learn from mistakes, yours or others.

1) Born in the 1990s.
2) how amdI sargonite you ignorant shit-talker?

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yeah and that's also the primary idpol of today and is inevitable. I'd explain it but there is literally a screencap I posted here analyzing this several posts higher

wew

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probably because Zig Forums is here.

It’s Bourgeois decadence.

You're talking out of your ass. No one on Zig Forums would give a shit whether identity movements are bourgeois in the first place. I swear, this board gets more and more Reddit by the day.

You're right. They would replace bourgeois with Jewish. My bad.

IdPol is politics based on how one associates themselves physically or mentally and attempts to make laws differentiating or make an identity superior.

If there are IdPol laws and you fight to remove them you are not idpol, you're fighting idpol.

If someone makes a racist policy, that's idpol, if you fight against such a policy, it is not idpol, it is counter-idpol.

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So what in our society ISN'T a symptom of capitalism? You could make the argument socialism itself is a symptom of capitalism, as it wouldn't have ever been a thing had capitalism not emerged.

And as I've said, there's no evidence ending capitalism will immediately do away with other forms of oppression. Just because you've cut the bush's roots doesn't mean its berries aren't still poisonous.

...

Not all forms of anti-racism and feminism revolve around blackmail. FFS you certainly love false dichotomies.

I think so, when they're detached from a materialist analysis. They tend toward purely ideal functions of innocence and guilt, right and wrong, all based on contemporary social norms universalized as eternal moral truth, and desire redistribution as a form of retribution for the crimes identified, as if politics were an equity court. Politically, they're the ressentiment of the losing side in history, and such feelings destroy the left's presence as any real movement.

Which is why it's not just ending capitalism but building socialism, not identity politics

id pol is about the individual subject and their identity. Socialism is universalist in its revolutionary subject (i.e. the working class).

I would agree, but you have to be more specific when you say "material analysis." People's feelings DO have a material basis, even if that basis is just the arrogance and solipsism of late capitalism produces.

And let's be honest: how do you suggest "idealist" idpolers be dealt with, because all I ever see from this board on the topic is to throw them under the bus and denounce them as children. Of course their behaviors are childish, but the inability of "materialist" leftists to adequately deal with them is a major flaw. You don't just denounce someone and see them fly away; you have to feel people out.

Socialism by itself doesn't end racism and sexism. Russia and China today are both extremely patriarchal and racist places.

And what do you mean by "universalist?" This meme needs to end; "universalism" is to Zig Forums what "decolonize" is to SJWs.

Yeah you really don't know a lot about Russia with those words, nor do you understand the change socialism brought to it. Also You're forgetting the tiny, minor little detail that CURRENT RUSSIA =/= the USSR. Additionally I'll add that China today is very equal. Patriarchal idea are mostly rural in areas where the state cannot regulate or provide the best education still. In both cases, however, they are still miles ahead of Western capitalism.

I wouldn't disagree for the most part, but we shouldn't be carried away: while the feelings have a material basis, they're also partially formed and directed by ideology. Regardless, the analysis they're using isn't categorically materialist when they're searching for blame.

It's difficult to deal with someone who's suspicious of everything you might say due to one's identity's standpoint, as they see it. Denouncing as non-left serves the function of separation, at least, and may be optimal online where no one will change anyone's mind on the other side. In person, I've found questioning as if sympathetic to their ideology to be the best, although it depends on your ability to do it well.

So, how did 70 years of socialist progress get immediately set back in 20?

You're going to need a source for this.

No shit, but how do you rise above ideology? You're not giving any mechanisms.

But you MUST deal with them eventually if you're going to form a strong movement. Like it or not, idpolers are a huge part of the left. Denouncing them and calling them out for being "idealist" - even if true - will cause them to respond with a huge amount of hostility.

For ex: a lot of Stirnerites like to claim "communism is selfish." Is that not also true of idpol? If I want communism because I feel as if I am exploited, how is it any different if I want whitey to shut up because I *feel* colonized by whitey's speech? See what I mean?

???