Can you be a Marxist and a feminist?

Marxist + 1st wave = yes.
Marxist + 3rd wave = no.

First wave feminism simply grants genders legal equality. Nothing contradictory with Marxism in that. In fact you probably need to agree with first wave feminism to be a true Marxist. The concept of getting rid of class does not make sense when 50% of the population has a different set of rights as that would inherently create a de-facto class system.

Third wave feminism on the other hand is about blaming men for any difference between sexes. This is not compatible with true communism in any way, since true equality requires equal value. The "revenge" politics preached by 3rd wave feminism has nothing to do with equality, and instead attempts to elevate women to a special aristocratic class that is free from any scrutiny or assigned duty. This does not make sense as women cannot be both equal and incapable of taking responsibility for themselves.

Exactly: men constantly shitting on and belittling women's concerns.

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you could've said something not retarded like how marxists can't be feminists because eliminating the bourgeois has nothing to do with there being more female billionares or whatever the tenants of modern feminism are

Sure. But people aren't blank slates. You have to address issues that pertain to them, dispel the myths you have to but the need is still there.

how does communism alone not address the issues women face? i mean actual issues not beyonce being president

communism isn't about equality. read more marx

Women's issues are workers' issues.

You actually did sort of touch on the problem of third wave feminism.

Say you have a company with:
1 male CEO being paid 40% of company profit. 10 upper management / lower executives ( 8 male 2 female ) being paid 40% of company profit.
10000 wage slaves ( 5000 male, 5000 female ) being paid the remaining 20%.

A Modern feminist will look at this company and claim that the main problem is the "wage gap" because when averaged out the men in this company make roughly 4x more than the women do. But of course anyone who is not a complete retard can see the problem with this reasoning. Even if you replaced most of the men in the upper executive position, the overwhelming majority of people in this company would not be getting paid a fair share -so what have you really accomplished? Nothing.

That, right there, is the crux of modern feminism. It views gender equality through the lens of capitalism, which makes absolutely zero fucking sense due to the fact that capitalism in inherently non-equal.

As long as theres capitalism, there will be exploited women, women dying Imperialist wars, and women victim of the violence of the men from her own class.
Feminism might free women in the formal sense, might bring about statistical equality, but it won't abolish class society and as such it will have to go beyond liberalism if it hopes to be an actual emancipatory movement.
We should work hand in hand with feminist movements whenever it is strategically useful and never hesitate to use them in the most opportunistic fashion.

The current family unit and instituted marriage are compatible with Communism and don't harm women's rights. Current societal values and expectations on women are fine, s ocially conservative ""Communism/Socialism"" is also fine because I'm a man and don't know about Women.
how can Marxists claim to be feminists
Marxism is feminism

Yes, in that women liberation is already included in the communist project and its study must be developed in a historical materialist framework.

No it’s because politics and philosophy are sausage parties.

yep. it's like the conservative ideology is "one day this will be my boot" while the liberal ideology is "one day this boot will be worn by someone with a vagina"

marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htm

Depends which issue. With this logic, you could conflate any issue that affects workers as a workers' issue.

Marxism goes beyond feminism

Friendly reminder that non-feminists will be shot unironically when the revolution hits.

The point of the Communist project is the elimination of class. Its goal is the undoing of the material relations which precipitate it.

Bourgeois "feminism" exists only to reify and perpetuate the false dichotomy of "men" and "women," denying the ultimate reality of the individual and preventing their personal fulfillment by establishing a generic mold for them to fill.

Revolutionary feminism is interested in the circumstances of the female sex only insofar as it pertains to the elimination of the "feminine" as a preordained mold into which to shove those that fall on this or that side of an arbitrary gender line.

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Also

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Meant for obviously

Explain to me why I should call myself a feminist when the term itself is outdated and the premise inadequate.

How dense are you?

lol no

Feminism is Porky cancer

Capitalism isn't inherit in feminism. A lot of first wave feminists (suffragettes) were anarchists, and plenty of second wave feminist had Marxist sensibilities. What you're criticizing is pop feminism, which is importantly NOT a representation of real feminism.

Exactly. Basically marxism is for equal womens rights, but for equitable social roles. which is why the idea of cultural marxism being the fore-front of modern feminism is rubbish.

you can see this in the USSR where women had equal rights and had the opportunity to do any work, but were encouraged to choose wisely.

"every person on earth is limited to what they can do in life by what is called inherent talent and native ability… This determines what each person can do best. One man might have the inherent ability to become a great musician while another couldn't become a great musician if he practiced all his life." - J.D. Fitzgerald, me and My Little Brain

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The term 'feminism' has a trillion meanings. Certainly some ideas that are labeled 'feminist' are compatible with Marxism.

This.

If you don't define what you mean by "feminism" then there's not even a point in having a conversation about it.

No true scotsman.

The reality is "pop" feminism has become the dominant feminist mindset. The movement is 100% run by MSM puppets like Sarkeesian who push bullshit gender identity politics for special interests with ulterior motives. Women have never been more enslaved then they are today, the only difference is they have been conned into believing that their current enslavement is of their own free choice.

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No it's not, you fucking retard. A no true scotsman fallacy involves an arbitrary and subjective standard. Differentiating based on objective qualities is the exact opposite of a "no true scotsman" you dick pumping cum pipe.

dipshit

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it's all the effort your dumb ass deserves

Information shouldn't make you angry, you should consider all sides.

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Literally nothing wrong with this, it's just biology. Incels stay mad.

wow

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No because commies don't believe in class.

u wot m8

See 8ch.net/leftypol/res/2545131.html

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If you think half of the human population should be your kitchen slave then you deserve to be shot.

You seem to have a convulted definition of class and equality.

Marxists should work towards abolishing gender, not enforcing the already existing roles, since that’s where most of the burgeois feminism comes short. We should strive to make the categories of man and woman superfluous, not to have 10000 genders etc.
And that does not mean we should not critically support feminists while still educating them with the correct marxist position. If you’re opposed to feminism you’re close to actual reactionaries who want to have the women chained in the kitchen than to marxists who actually desire their liberation.

Just think about it. Does it help the working class improve in any way? Obviously since women are half its population.

What the fuck is thist idealist shit with “inherent talent” coming from a self ascribed “dialectical materialist”. Take your flag off.

You've been replying to every single comment that you don't like across 4 threads. And all you do in them is talk shit, and get triggered. Fuck off SJW.

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I haven’t posted in like a week since I’m a lurker and I was not disagreeing with what you said about the ussr. I was attacking that horrible quote you posted. The fact that you think there is an “inherent ability” to being a good musician and that it’s not just years and years of practice.

So possessing a womb gives you an inherit talent outside of baby making?

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Because It's true. This is demonstrable. Take Salieri Hardworking composer and musician… despite this he pales in comparison to Mozart. Why? Because of inherent talent. Some people have many talents, others may have none at all. The quote I used is exactly about that.

When you say inherent, do you mean genetically? are you saying Salieri was genetically inferior to Mozart?

No, it has NOTHING to do with genetics.

Well when you say inherent differences that usually implies genetics.

Not in the context of my quote. The book dates from the 19th century.

Well then i guess it was a semantic issue then. if youre saying that different people in different environments may or may not come out better than another person in another environment than i obviously agree

That's the implication.

Then you should phrase it more carefully since “inherent talent” reeks of idealism.

It's a direct quote from the book, what do you want me to do? I provided a runner up explanation before posting it.

I said that gender roles as they are have come about due to the capacity for the two genders to produce, so changing the roles they have without changing anything else would be idpol

3rd wave feminism is all about attacking sexist aspects of culture, such as rape culture and various sexist tropes. While these criticisms have a varying degree of validity, I think any attempt to tear down arbitrary and discriminatory aspects of culture is perfectly in line with Marxism.

Implying socialism is about autistically maximizing the production at the cost of people's mental health. You might as well argue that we should just brainwash everyone into working 12 hours per day without feeling bored.

Not at the expense of peddling the bullshit 3rd wave feminists come out with.

i never understood feminism

women have lower lung capacity, lower muscle mass and lower bone density
this is why women powerlifting olympics is as same as average 15 year old boys
this is why i think it was in sweden or some place a female grown up competitive professional football club lost to a team of 15 year old men
this is why women cant carry machineguns uphill or pull wounded in combat and it is therefore retarded to put them in combat roles
not even to mention that women cant produce more than a 1000 babies during 9 months unlike men can, so keeping them out of combat proved evolutionary more successful and so no tribe ever had female combatants AND survived (duh)

all this shit is measurable, aka you can literally take a muscle or bone sample and MEASURE the fucking inferiority of the females of our species
feminism would make sense in spider species, female spiders are bigger than the males but HUMANS ARENT FUCKING ARACHNIDS
"the patriarchy", aka forcing men into coal mines or exploding oil rigs or combat makes fucking sense, and putting women into sheltered homes to take care of the children also makes sense

shhh don't say that here, you'll be accused of being from Zig Forums and that you're enforcing gender-roles.

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Caring about body strength is retarded and you sould feel bad
Most logical feminist will never argue about natural defferences in body size.

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Why tho? Also in the freest, most progressive societies such as Nordic countries, where women are encouraged to be nuclear submarine technicians and whatnot, most opt for nurses while most mechanical/technical type engineering stuff is picked by men.

Women are inferior workers. Nut all and all that. But then again the allies didnt try to identify which kriegsmariner had a nazi membership when they were sinking uboats did they? Generalizations are useful. And women are generally less productive workers.

Body strenght mean that women are going to be much less effective at severals dangerous and grueling works that pay pretty well.

True maybe there is deffeence in choices bur weather this has to do with biology or nurture … I am not sure

1)Read Marx or any book
Even in technocratic arguments this is retarded
>You need a lot of strength to lay bricks
I worked in consruction when i was a teen it was hard work but nothing women cant handle (maybe in so special cases the workers need to cooperate but men do it to so…..

The difference is bigger in more equalitarian country. In countries like china, working "male" jobs may be necessary for women as some of them are relatively easy and plentiful.

I'm a computer scientist and in 5 years of formation, I've only seens a dozen or less women for severals hundred men.

The society I'm working at have 7 other computer scientist and they're all male.

This kind of result is way too big for it to be only a result of culture/

Wait are we talking about the gender pay gup i dont know if this exist but marxism will solve it
Where because where i live trash cleaners are consider uneducated idiots
Anyway most hard jobs can be done by women to(i know some)

Also I forgot to say that teenage boy are stronger than adult women so you may be overestimating.
Why would you get a woman who is generally going to be worse ?

Yes is true nerds are mostly male but culture corupts dude so again i dunno
While there clear differences in the way genders think tbh
But jobs are not a good example

Well is not like people rush to get this jobs and some women are really good on there jobs
The only retarded think i can think is when women(and men) beat huge dudes with there fists

Trash cleaning isn't a hard job at all. Imagine a military man for exemple, or someone having to lift heavy object.

Part of the gender pay gap is also because women choose other jobs and because of difference in personality. For exemple they'll rather work less.

In the end this is actually pretty beneficial because this allow for severals type of jobs to be filled and for a family to have someone. Obviously this is only an ideal and not everyone is going to be perfect like that.

Jobs are perfectly good exemple. A lot of computer scientist aren't that nerdy. My boss for exemple is pretty normie.

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