Hi Zig Forums, I have a question if you don't mind, also sorry if I write like an ape, I don't speak very good english.
I started reading marxist literature not so long, and after finishing The Permanent Revolution by ⛏️rotsky his ideas resulted very coherent to me, compared to the socialism in one country of Stalin.9clhtr
But then I see everywhere a very fervent hate for ⛏️rotsky, and it's not the classical "You dont belong to my unique and special sectarian club of angry teenagers", it's like everyone (except ⛏️rotskysts obviously) hates ⛏️rotsky for some reason.
Is there something I'm missing about ⛏️rotsky? He seems like a good guy but well, I want to know what you guys think about him and why you hate him if you do. Thanks in advance for your time!
because he's such an entry-level political figure who's supported by liberals and neocons alike.
Julian Barnes
Nobody really hates him(expects this Slav ☭TANKIE☭) People that dislike him are either meming, anarchist that cry cause manko loose or crazy Stalinist neets His supporters have a mixed reputation cause the average Anglo thinks that selling newspaper is not only weird but an international phenomenon (some neotrots are idpol retards tbh) Read more thinkers or follow a trot party (they are many) The whole question of Leon or Stalin does not matter anymore so who cares Hardly cause if you read liberal Rational wiki or many anticommunist authors they always bich about how he killed people at the fucking CIVIL WAR
It's quite literally due to memes and ☭TANKIE☭ autism. The differences between his and Stalin's version of Marxism-Lenism are fairly superficial (except for Stalin being slightly more revisionist because he abandoned international socialism for socialism in one country, whereas ⛏️rotsky was more in line with orthodox ML theory/practice). If ⛏️rotsky would've happened to become the leader of the USSR and Stalin the dissident, ☭TANKIE☭s would probably fervently defend ⛏️rotsky and hate Stalin.
Parker Green
Also the recently added wordfilter on his name is cringey as fuck. Wordfilters are supposed to trick raiding Zig Forumstards, not comrades
Easton Wright
People don't hate ⛏️rotsky so much as they hate (American) ⛏️rotskyists, mostly for being sectarian, splitting parties constantly and doing a bunch of stupid shit in the past related to their opposition to the Soviet Union.
Samuel Cook
It's mostly sectarianism between Trots and M-Ls, despite their ideologies being basically the same. In mainstream politics, he is also notorious for his influence on the neoconservative movement in the Anglosphere, which is as widely despised as the communist movement was.
Daniel Gomez
I wonder how different leftypol would be today if BO hadn't decided to sperg out at comrades
Robert Gomez
It would be completely different imo. Much bigger probably (we might genuinely have surpassed Zig Forums if it wasn't for the BO) and there would be less of a circlejerk-ish culture that is hostile to left unity.
Anarchists hate ⛏️rotsky for his treatment of the Free Territory and Kronstadt (I'm actually sympathetic to these criticisms and I think ⛏️rotsky could have handled both situations better).
Stalinists hate ⛏️rotsky because he criticized the political system of the USSR from the left and they saw/see this as a betrayal. This view is unfounded in my opinion, because ⛏️rotsky never suggested that the USSR had turned "state capitalist" or "revisionist" and he was actually quite hostile to those who did suggest such things. He was an ardent supporter of the Soviet Union until the day he died.
Wyatt Cook
It's so fucking annoying.
Big tent communities actually get post activity, but it's like the BO would literally prefer a mostly dead Marxist-Leninist board over a highly popular general socialist board.
Every day it seems like we get closer and closer to the former. It's already de facto against the rules to criticize countries if they happen to be hostile to NATO, regardless of who those countries might be. Then he used word filters to more or less force a good chunk of anarchists off this board. Now it's only a matter of time until Trots are banned on sight.
What a fucking idiot.
Evan Jones
Every left-wing discussion board either becomes a regressively sectarian hug box, or is subsumed into the identity politics thought bubble until it becomes a mainstream liberal hug box.
Christopher Foster
I suppose that's true, but I feel like Zig Forums has enough hostility toward liberalism that we might be able to grow substantially without our discourse being sucked into the mainstream terminology.
Not like we'll ever find out because, again, BO is doing everything in his power to stifle the growth of this board.
Jeremiah Williams
Except in the case of Zig Forums this rise of sectarianism is 100% due to BO's spergout and it would in all likelihood not have happened with a capable and sane person on top.
Nolan Davis
I've got my sympathies for ⛏️rotskyists, but you're definitely right that lots of trots these days are just idpol retards. Liberals larping to piss off their parents I'd assume.
Camden Brown
I'm heading pigeons whispering in the trees. They're saying "coup! coup!"
Sebastian Morris
Splendid idea comrade, but how to put these noble pigeons' proposal into practice? Basically the only way would be if we can get the Zig Forums admins to reassign the board like they did with Zig Forums, but i don't think they care enough to do that
Elijah Rodriguez
Damned if I know. I'm just a faggot making a Bill Hicks joke.
Justin Gray
He was a genious in a time where globalization wasnt a thing.
Logan Rivera
⛏️rotskyists are extremely sectarian, which cause a reactive accusation, and there is a reason for that.
From an objective standpoint, there is no difference between ☭Stalinism☭ and ⛏️rotskyism. If you check out the actual critisism of the former, ⛏️rotsky used a very strange idea as a fundamental, that the error of the USSR simply has an incorrect leadership. That fact causes ⛏️rotskyists everywhere to believe that only themselves and ⛏️rotsky himself are true comrades.
Thus, its' only distinctive feature is edge. It's not without merit, though. A ⛏️rotskyist fanboy student is less cringy than a pro-Soviet or pro-Chinese fanboy communist, and ⛏️rotsky's edge allows him to intercept leftist radicals; which eventually lets them to cause less damage to their optics if they decide to go into real politics.
Lucas Campbell
But "Socialism in one country" meant that the soviet union should be built up as a bulwark against imperialism. ⛏️rotsky's permanant revolution meant that there shoul be a simultaneous worldwide revolution. Stalin did not abandon internationalism.
Evan Johnson
Stalin disbanded the comintern.
Juan Long
Trotskyism is hard to pin down because it's not really an ideology in and of itself, but typically a blanket term for anti-Stalinist Leninists, and beliefs can vary widely between them.
The "orthodox" ⛏️rotskyist line on the Soviet Union is that it was a "deformed worker's state", that it was a genuine socialist state that had become dominated by the bureaucracy and managerial class, and that it's democratic structures were largely compromised.
Juan Jenkins
Did you add the hammer and siccles around Stalinism or is this another faggy wordfilther the BO has added to enforce xis/xer autism?
Jordan Thompson
BO went full Marcyite. anti-capitalist (without the hyphen) now wordfilters to "anti-capitalist".
There is ☭TANKIE☭, but that seems to be more aggrandizing it.
Jaxson Perez
Anti-Ameriburger
Brandon Cruz
You and any other fucking idiot who perpetuate the myth that permanent revolution is about "supporting only simultaneous worldwide revolution" deserve the wall along with the rest of the brainlet neolibs and leftoids. Permanent revolution from its inception was nothing but a theory to explain the possibility of revolution in semi-feudal states (i.e. Russia) that would proceed directly from semi-feudal society to the construction of socialist society, rather than being mediated by a bourgeois political framework headed by the proletariat. In other words, it's nothing more than a theory to explain how it is that an underdeveloped nation such as Russia was going to have socialist revolution and pass *directly* into socialism rather than needing the prior "development of productive forces" or political bourgeois revolution beforehand. The bullshit about simultaneous worldwide revolution is an absolutely retarded misreading, and only comes from the theoretical points of permrev made about the world market. These points are that the construction of socialism in Russia could not survive or continue productively in isolation, and that it would require aid from other revolutions/nations to relieve the tension of the stranglehold on resources forced upon it by the closed system of the global capitalist market.
Permanent revolution is this and nothing more. Read a fucking book.
Cooper Murphy
Don't care so much about what others think of you. You have a limited span on this Earth. Go about your business and learn to enjoy rather than take offense.
Landon Campbell
This… How the fuck did everyone fall for this meme
Kayden Gutierrez
cite a fucking source
Dominic White
let me see all the essays and books you brainlets use, like idk, maybe ⛏️rotsky's own book, to support their bullshit meme and then maybe i'll write a 10 page MLA citation format essay on why you're a fucking retard. this shouldn't be hard if you consume more content (again like, idk, maybe ⛏️rotsky's own book) than leftist YouTubers and image board pseuds
Nathan Johnson
so you don't have any sources? that really calls your authority on the subject into doubt.
Bentley Hill
are you fucking kidding me? you seriously are so deep in this meme that it obscures literal descriptions from the book itself? christ even wikipedia isn't this stupid. you seriously just dig your grave deeper in your pathetic denial by demanding citations over the most simple and obvious exposition of permrev that could be possibly given, showing that you obviously have literally no sources except for internet ☭TANKIE☭ morons. my main source is of course pic related.
