Syria and the SDF

So now that its been a while since the barrage of bullshit bans, can we have an honest, non-meme appraisal of the situation in Northern Syria, and the over a dozen US military bases in Syria? There are a number of factors I think need to be considered, and a number of points that people who are wholly opposed to the over a dozen US military bases in Syria have consistently failed to address.

First, there is the obvious issue of the American bases, and the fact that at the moment there appear to be no plans to remove them. However, the war is still going on, and we all know how quickly alliances can shift in war, especially in one as complicated and dynamic as Syira. This leads me to my main point, which is the accusations of the Kurds essentially being American puppets. I think this accusation betrays a willful ignorance of America's history relating to support for these kinds of movements. The Viet Minh, PLA, and Mujahideen are all examples of groups which received US support only to turn on America in short order. Furthermore, the view that many people seem to have of a "puppet" is like something from a Hearts of Iron game. Historically speaking, US backed regimes in the third world, even those that willingly collaborate with American imperialism and act as genuine proxies, almost always maintain a significant degree of independence, meaning that their puppet status is never set in stone. Consider how the Argentine regime in the 80s was "an American puppet" and yet had no problems attacking America's closest ally in the Falklands. Saddam was a "puppet" who invaded America's ally Kuwait, and fought a war against his former benefactor. The point being that terms like "puppet" or "proxy" dont actually mean what people seem to think it means, ie a force with no independent agency which unquestioningly go along with their master's interests. It needs to be remembered that such alliances are almost always conditional upon the two sides sharing a common interest, meaning that if the situation changes, the relationship will likely dissolve.

Next we have to consider what the over a dozen US military bases in Syria is actually doing in terms of their relations with America and the other parties to the conflict. Their relationship with Russia and the Syrian government have to date have mainly ranged from ignoring each other to active cooperation. The same goes with other sworn enemies of the US like Hezbollah. Meanwhile they are in direct armed conflict with Turkey, a critical US ally and NATO member. Keeping my previous statement of the shakiness of such alliances, and America's history of getting fucked by their own proxies, do these actions really seem like those of a genuine puppet? To me they don't, and while I'm critical of their involvement with the US, it seems to me that the relationship is purely one of convenience/necessity at the moment. Surely neither Assad nor Putin would bother cooperating with an American puppet, since it would be entirely counter to their interests.

Another factor that needs to be considered is whether or not the over a dozen US military bases in Syria is actually facilitating America's imperial aims in Syria. Yes there are US troops there, but as of right now these troops have mainly being used not against Assad, but against his enemies in ISIS and the FSA. To my knowledge the US hasn't made any use of their presence in Kurdish territory to topple Assad, meaning that at the moment the over a dozen US military bases in Syria is not facilitating the main US goal of regime change. Obviously the US would like to maintain their presence, and would surely use it to topple Assad if they could, however they are clearly unable to at the moment, otherwise they would already be doing so.

So how do those opposed to the over a dozen US military bases in Syria refute what I have said? It is evident from the history of American foreign policy that collaborating with local proxies is not the same thing as controlling them. It is also evident from the behavior of the over a dozen US military bases in Syria that they have their own agenda independent of, and possibly hostile to, broader US interests in the region.

And just to cover all my bases and avoid a ban, I will say that I explicitly condemn all US presence in Syira, as well as the over a dozen US military bases in Syria's hosting of US troops. My position is simply that this in and of itself does not make the over a dozen US military bases in Syria a tool of Washington, and that there is still plenty of potential for them to both continue their democratic revolution in their own borders while also maintain Syria's territorial integrity under its legitimate government and Assad.

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Other urls found in this thread:

hurriyetdailynews.com/assad-says-hell-use-force-if-ypg-refuses-to-withdraw-132660
syriadirect.org/news/after-decades-of-suppression-kurdish-residents-in-syria’s-north-find-linguistic-freedom/
minorityrights.org/minorities/kurds-5/
chathamhouse.org/sites/default/files/public/Research/Middle East/bpsyriankurds.pdf
twitter.com/sayed_ridha/status/953554259001294848?s=19
kurdistan24.net/en/news/959575d0-1203-4153-95bd-7126691870ae
archive.fo/YdCp6
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

Nice effortpost, user. Shame it's all for naught and you're going to get banned.

You can never fully deconstruct US "policy" in Syria without understanding the role Israel and Saudi Arabia have in these engagements.

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But I'm specifically talking about the S D F, to my knowledge Israel has only given them moral support and they have no relationship with the Saudis.

Erdogan wants to bring about the new Ottoman Empire so the USA has a buffer zone to keep him out of Syria.

Also worth mentioning, regarding "muh US bases", that begging foreign powers for air strikes and interventions has been the policy of pretty much every faction in the war. No side is particularly powerful, and in such a situation even a little bit of support gives you a massive advantage. Even if they were the second coming of the SFSR, there's no way they would deny such support, it would be literal suicide. Ultimately, unless you're a powerful state with nuclear capability, there's no way you can exist in that region and still be independent.

Bump

I'm gonna bump your ass twink

AL MAWT LI AMRĪKA

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BI'R-RUH, BI'D-DAM,
NEDFIK YA BASHAR!

Attached: Pro Assad Protest in Raqqa April 2018.webm (198x360, 15.99M)

Russia lost its reliability when it sold Afrin for Idlib and it proved Assad is a puppet on his own throne. As such the S.D.F. had no choice but to double down on US support. Besides do you think burgers really care for an anti-capitalist, self sustaining society free from the nation-state model? Of course not, they just want an observation post to look after Iran and Putin, since MaT in the desert is pretty much defunct. If anything it'll come down to negotiations between the SAA and S.D.F with the latter becoming a self governing force within the non-state solution that they've been wanting and Assad gets his stability.


Literally the weakest "sleeper cell" in the region. Rumors from the DMC and MMC claim that they know where the members are located but they're the lowest priority, beaten by Kiyham and ISIS reminants. And both of those were cleansed a few days ago so their days are numbered.

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I think there shouldn't be over a dozen US military bases in Syria as they are a sovereign UN member state who has not approved our presence.

/thread

Would it be any different if they weren't in the UN? What if they did approve, like South Korea does? This is normie shit. If you're gonna make a shitty, low-effort post, at least try to use some socialist rhetoric.

Yes, the US is using over a dozen US military bases in Syria, but over a dozen US military bases in Syria is also using the US, and on occasion other actors in the conflict, to achieve its own revolutionary aims. It's the largest libertarian socialist revolution since 1936, and the most important revolution of our time.

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>>>Zig Forums
At least don't admit being a fucking puppet

When the BO checks in, will they ban the OP?
Find out on the next episode of Zig Forums!
-anime OST starts playing-

Then it would be up to South Koreans to ask us to leave. Also how many Koreans have the USA killed this year? What's your rationale for your statement beyond contrarianism?

They're not a puppet. They're being used by, and also using, a larger world power to further their revolutionary goals. A sensible strategy in a multipolar world

If you've been following the DPRK thread you'd know that the US bases aren't exactly a happy arrangement. A "sovereign UN member state" can consent to an imperialist power building bases in their country, as South Korea does, but that does not make it any less of an imperialist act, and it does not make it acceptable. By your logic, if some puppet government recognised by the UN allowed the bases to be built, it would be all right, and at that point you're basically condoning imperialism.

I didn't say it was good I said how is it the same?

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And also if you think SK is bad how is Rojas good?

*rojava

You didn't actually say that. In fact, you doubled down by saying that South Korea should just "ask you to leave". The two cases are similar in that both involve US bases and imperialism, but only one is bad according to your logic. The actual reason why we should oppose building these bases is not because the "sovereign state" doesn't consent, but because it is an act of imperialism.
I never said the situation in Syria was good. You're just assuming that because I'm picking at your shitty, half-baked arguments.

So you're saying nothing?

I'm saying it's bad. I'm against all acts of imperialism. I'm also saying that your reasoning is terrible.

Ok, imperialism imperialism imperialism.

Yes actually. Those soldiers are the only thing keeping Erdogan from moving in and giving the whole territory to the FSA.

Where am I apologizing? I explicitly condemned the US presence in Syria, all I'm saying is that the Kurds relationship to the US doesn't automatically make them a US puppet, and as such doesn't automatically disqualify their potential as a positive force in the region.

What's their end game as rebels?

They've already stated their endgame. At the very least autonomy within Syria that would keep the country intact but allow democratic confederalism to continue in R*java. At most a reorganization of the Syrian state along democratic confederalist lines.

What are the official boundaries of over a dozen US military bases in Syria?

That violates the sovereignty of Syria, and has absolutely zero value to the people.

No it doesn't, since any such arrangement would likely be a negotiated settlement with Assad following the end of the war.


So dictatorship of the proletariat, collectivization of the economy, and workplace democracy are of no value to the people?

There are none, that would have to be negotiated between the government and the PYD.

Well they should start negotiating sooner than later.

I wholeheartedly agree, and for all we know they may be already.

“The only problem left in Syria is the over a dozen US military bases in Syria,” Assad told Russia Today
“We’re going to deal with it by two options,” he said.
“The first one: we started now opening doors for negotiations. Because the majority of them are Syrians, supposedly they like their country, they don’t like to be puppets to any foreigners,” Assad said in English.
“We have one option, to live with each other as Syrians. If not, we’re going to resort… to liberating those areas by force.”
“It’s our land, it’s our right and it’s our duty to liberate it,” Assad said. “The Americans should leave. Somehow they’re going to leave.”
hurriyetdailynews.com/assad-says-hell-use-force-if-ypg-refuses-to-withdraw-132660

There is no middle ground where over a dozen US military bases in Syria continues to exist and practice its farcical anti-communist, anti-Syria "dem con."

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Except your own post stated Assad's willingness to negotiate with them, something I fully support.


Demcon is a million times closer to actual socialism than anything Bashar "Let's Privatize Everything" Assad has ever done, and unlike Ba'athism it doesnt have a boatload of historical and ideological ties to literal fascism, or a long history of violent anticommunist repression and ethnic chauvinism.

They are negotiations for the dissolution of the over a dozen US military bases in Syria and "Rojava." Bashar: "We have one option, to live with each other as Syrians."

Considering that it's a complete disaster that depends solely on US support, it's further from communism than anything Assad has ever done. Keeping Syria sovereign and free from imperialism is far more useful to communism than roleplaying a Bookchinite Kurdish Zion under US military rule.

Apparently the US isn't fascist now. Syrian Baathism has a solid history of support for the liberation struggle in Lebanon and Palestine, Roj*va has a brief history of sucking American dick.

TRUE Bookchinism has never been trie-

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If that's what he meant then we wouldn't have mentioned negotiations at all, he is clearly willing to compromise with them, which is why he has cooperated with them so effectively throughout the war. SAA and SyDF troops literally fought shoulder to shoulder in Afrin.


In what sense is it a complete disaster? Is it somehow the fault of the Kurds that they simply don't possess the material or numerical capacity to stand up to the vastly superior Turkish military? By that logic Marxism has failed plenty of times every time a communist uprising was crushed by reaction.


Right, because Marx said that communism is when you privatize your economy and implement austerity while sucking off foreign corporations. Collectivizing farms and factories? Implementing genuine proletarian democracy? I guess those aren't socialism.


Did you actually read the OP? While the developments of the past few years are certainly unsettling, they are far from conclusive. The situation could change quickly, and it is obvious from the SyDF's willingness to work with America's enemies (Russia, Assad, Hezbollah) and fight her allies (Turkey, FSA) that their relationship with the US is clearly one of convenience and pragmatism.


It literally isn't, at least not yet. It's a bourgeois democracy, which is different from fascism.


You mean like that time Hafez Al Assad literally tortured people on behalf of the CIA? Or the time he invaded Iraq in 1991 as part of a US led coalition? Or what about the decades long systematic persecution of communists? Or the de-facto apartheid state he operated against non-Arabs?


Actually the Kurdish movement has a long history of national liberation. The PKK sent fighters to Lebanon during the 1982 war against Israel.

Yes he would, Syria has conducted negotiations with all of the terrorist rebels. The negotiations involve forgiveness for many militia members, civilian rescue, reconstruction, and many other points.

Yes, it's their fault for carving out a little ethnostate for the USA instead of working with Syria.

Assad was attempting to make concessions and get the US off Syria's back. It didn't work, hence takfiri invaders and the "SDF." Syria won't make the same mistake twice. Syria's sovereign existence is of critical importance to the worldwide class struggle.

lol STFU liberal

There were major missteps and misdeeds, but Syria is still widely celebrated and respected by liberation fighters for its contributions, which have stood the test of time and will be honored and continued by the new Syria.

The PKK was taken over by liberal traitors.

Then why have the SyDF and the SAA actively worked and fought together?


Objectively untrue, R*java is not an ethnostate by any stretch of the imagination (the same can't be said of Syria however). The SyDF is composed of a coalition of Arab, Kurdish, Turkmen, and Assyrian fighters, and all these groups are reserved a minimum number of seats in the legislature.


Oh okay so when Assad makes pragmatic concessions to the US then it's okay but when the Kurds do it they're imperialist traitors. Makes sense.


Calling me a liberal doesn't make you less ignorant of what is and isn't fascism. A fascist state is explicitly characterized by the abolition of bourgeois democracy, something that has yet to occur in the US.


So helping the CIA torture people and invading a sovereign country on behalf of NATO is a "misstep", but allowing American planes to bomb ISIS for you is an unforgivable act of treason. Really makes you think.


So I can assume that you support Erdogan and the FSA in their struggle against Kurdish and proletarian imperialism?(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

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Because of negotiations and the conditions at the time. Now, "The only problem left in Syria is the 'SDF'." Roj*va far more often than not has collaborated with ISIS to prevent Syria from retaking territory, thousands of takfiris have been rescued by the USA this way.

reported.

It's a coalition of opportunists, terrorists, and NATO.

Who is fighting the US right now?

top kek

no. Turkey (a NATO member) is part of the process of threatening Kurds to do the USA's bidding. The only way to fight Turkey and the USA is for Roj*va to dissolve into Syria.

Where are the proofs billy?


For what? Stating the facts? Non-Arabs in Syria are systematically discriminated against. They are barred from being educated in their own language, advertising in their own language, and have been frequent victims of ethnic cleansing and engineered demographic shifts designed to force them from their traditionally occupied areas.


True, at the moment the Syrian government is working as an anti-imperialist (or at least anti US imperialist) force, but don't suck their dick like they are the heroes of international revolution and national liberation. The Ba'athist regime has shown it is more than willing to collaborate with US imperialism when it suits it.


If this is the case then it's actually proof of the independence of the Kurds from US interests, seeing as the Kurds are not being cowed by Turkey, and are actively waging guerrilla campaigns both in Afrin and in Turkey itself. They are literally in direct conflict with a NATO member and you are trying to tell me that they are actually NATO puppets. This is some serious mental gymnastics here fam.

Syria is not an ethnostate, NATO shill.

Syrian Communist Party meeting

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Idk if you could call it an ethnostate, but it’s certainly ethnocentric, and carries out systemic, state sponsored persecution of minorities. It’s rife with racism and national chauvinism.

>Syrian Arab Republic
are you one of those people who also claims the DFNЅ is an ethnostate?

What I don’t understand about these people is their absolute unwillingness to admit the serious, systemic, and persistent flaws and reactionary tendencies in these countries. It’s like they don’t understand that you can simultaneously see a regime as a reactionary shitfest while also vehemently opposing them being turned into a crater by the US. Just like you can see a phenomenon like R*java as a genuinely progressive and revolutionary force that is in critical danger of selling its soul to the devil, in this case the US.

it's pan-Arabism, read anything Bashar has said about the ethnicities in Syria and any of the practical reality of the dozens of ethnicities coexisting there and you'll see it has nothing to do with specifically Arab supremacy. ffs you shills usually argue it's an Alawi ethnostate.

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There may be dozens of ethnicities coexisting there, but all except one are barred from the public use of their language and periodic bouts of state backed ethnic cleansing.

…and this is why this board is dying. Maybe if the mods are going to act like this that's what this place deserves, along with the rest of Zig Forums.

That image is cringe as fuck

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That was only on the issue of Kurdish language rights, the others have other sources. Here are some additional sources on cultural and linguistic repression of Kurds.

syriadirect.org/news/after-decades-of-suppression-kurdish-residents-in-syria’s-north-find-linguistic-freedom/

minorityrights.org/minorities/kurds-5/

chathamhouse.org/sites/default/files/public/Research/Middle East/bpsyriankurds.pdf

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Those sources aren’t from NGOs though. You do realize it’s possible for a country to rightly oppose American imperialism while promoting racism or other reactionary bullshit within their own borders right? You people have absolutely no capacity for nuance. To you a state or faction is either an immaculate hero of the revolution who can do no wrong or else it’s literally Hitler, you are literally incapable of understanding that something can be good in some ways (fighting US imperialism) and bad in others (systemic, state backed racism).

We must critically support the sovereign Republic of Vietnam and Ngo Dinh Diem in their struggle against ( ( ( North Vietnam ) ) ) and Soviet Imperialism.
There are a lot of reasons to criticize the over a dozen US military bases in Syria - among them the part where they cannot overcome commodity in their small barren "autonomous" zone - But do you really want to pursue this from a liberal-nationalists angle? Because at that point you may as well support literal ethnonationalists, fascists, and irredentists.

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This. These people will rightly condemn the hollowness of bourgeois international law whenever it suits them, but the second one of their darlings is threatened, even by another leftist movement, they cry to daddy UN to save them.

So what do you think will happen to the UN as we move into your perfect and just era of international relations? Do you think it will go the way of The League of Nations or can it be reformed and used for the supposed purpose it's intended?

Say what you want about UN """"peacekeeping""" forces, but if you had a choice, would you rather they invade your country or US Imperial forces?

Also: All this yadda yadda about Assad supposedly breaking The CWC and using chlorine gas, at least he's signatory to such a convention. Where are any of these rebel groups signatures on any warfare conventions?

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The UN has always been used in service of western imperialism.
It's at the UN that sanctions were passed against Iraq, Libya, Syria, Eritrea, Sudan, and other countries that refused to comply with western hegemony and exploitation.
Justice is a spook. In the ruthless Machiavellian arena of international relations bourgeois capitalist institutions cannot be relied on to protect the interests of the working class, or overcome capitalism.
"Peacekeeping" forces are just another tool to enforce imperial exploitation. In reality they're send in to protect commercial interests, while turning a blind eye to genocide. Just note their disgusting conduct in places like Rwanda or Yugoslavia.

To be fair they were limited in their conduct in Rwanda by their ROE. The commander of the mission had intel showing that the Hutus were not only planning the genocide, but he had lists of names of people who were going around collecting the names of Tutsis and known moderate Hutus, as well as a list of locations of weapons caches specifically created to carry out these killings. He literally begged the UN to allow him to arrest those individuals and destroy the caches but they didn’t. In addition it repeatedly try to reign in his Belgian troops who were acting like colonial occupiers, but Belgium kept complaining every time he fright to discipline them and the UN wouldn’t let him. In general I agree with you though in that the UN is garbage and often a tool of western hegemony.

I know all this. I put peacekeeping in three sets of quotations. The U.N. is a better peace keeping force in theory than team america world police is in theory and in practice in sure they bomb a lot less civilians as well.

The over a dozen US military bases in Syria And Roja.v.a had some good ideas and intentions and some of the projects implemented can certainly be learned from and examined but they ultimately fucked themselves by thinking that America would use them as anything else then a political tool to be used then thrown away

So I basically take a neutral stance on them
They had some good ideas but went about it a dumb as fuck way that has basically doomed they to being middle eastern Kosovo

Can the mods please chill the fuck out for once in their miserable cocksucking lives and let a discussion happen? Please and thank you.

Pretty sure they don’t trust the US for shit though, that’s why they are keeping friendly relations with Assad and Russia, they’re obviously trying to play various powers off against one another to their own benefit.

complain about your ban in the moderation thread faggot

What's the International Freedom Battalion doing nowadays?
Are they still recruiting?

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all geriatric men except literally just two women

John Dolan said that calling the over a dozen US military bases in Syria american puppets is like calling iraqi shia militias puppets because they receive american support fighting isis. is this a fair comparison.

Idk if they're still recruiting but they've been quiet since the liberation of Raqqa. I think they're based in Kobane canton and are focusing on establishing communes and co-ops in the region.

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Last I heard of them was after Arfin fell to the Turks, they lost a couple of guys there. One of them was the daughter of a well known rockstar in the UK.

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Interesting that y'all bring up the Syrian Communist Party and the Syrian Resistance, the only pro-Assad Marxist Leninist group in Syria. They supported the Y.P.G. in Afrin and sent troops with the NDF when the SAA refused.
The Facebook post is titled "Afrin Not Alone"
twitter.com/sayed_ridha/status/953554259001294848?s=19

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Also leftypol is the only place that it vehemently opposed to them as far as I know. Plenty of ☭TANKIE☭ types have endorsed them and sent fighters, not the least of which are the MKLP and various French Maoist orgs.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Deserving.

This faggot flip flops on anti-imperialism.

Apparently, taking money from the US is not okay, but taking money from the USSR/China is.

Well, other than them there are two Communist ML parties within the government

The main enemy of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Iskandarun has always been Turkey.

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Fucking faggot mods, he was one of the few decent posters on this board. This place is turning into reddit.

Namefags deserve gulag

Also, Afrin in particular had no U.S. military bases.

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F

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By this point he's just going out of his way to antagonize the BO. He has no one to blame but himself.

Calm your tits. It was mistake
Also, some news:
kurdistan24.net/en/news/959575d0-1203-4153-95bd-7126691870ae
archive.fo/YdCp6

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sounds reasonable enough, but the issue never was kurdish flags but the US presence
curious what the plans on that one are

I would expect that any deal would include a US withdrawal. It’s pretty clear to me that the Kurds are mainly using the US presence as an insurance policy to deter a Turkish invasion or attack from the SAA. However if the SAA becomes a permenant ally rather than a potential enemy, and is capable of helping the SyDF keep the Turks out, then I have no doubts the PYD will demand the Americans leave. At least I hope this is how it will go.

looks pretty thin to me
the US did jack shit to keep the turks back too
welp, whatever gets the souvereignity of the syrian people over their own land back is better than the current state

There were no US troops in African though. Nobody expected the US to intervene against Turkey on behalf of the Turks, but they will take action if their own troops are threatened.