Liberal = anyone who knowingly or unknowingly is a proponent of capitalism without being a fascist.
What is a "liberal" in your mind and why do you hate them?
Ian Watson
Hunter Nguyen
Chapo people mean it as people to the right of them ala Phil Ochs, Zig Forums at the best of times means it in the way people here are describing but it is going to vary depending on post quality.
I had a great screencap describing how the term liberal turned from this centrist concept of individualist freedoms into a variety of different viewpoints - americans treating it as interchangeable with leftist, britain partially retaining the original meaning and aussies going full retard with liberal basically meaning neoconservative over there but sadly I don't have it anymore sorry! I hope this sort of gives the idea that the term liberal isn't this single term with a single modern meaning like living in the US can make it seem, though
the further you get into this shit, the less you relate to the goals and results of liberal ideals. it's not as noticeable to you since (i assume) you're fairly apolitical or politically centrist and so the details of what makes a hard leftist see liberalism as fundamentally flawed look like minutiae rather than significant divergences like how we see it
Ethan Cox
Disparagingly using the word Liberal in common usage as if it indicates "capitalist" because saying "capitalist" is cringe worthy
Brandon Clark
Only in burgerstan's lobotomized political culture does 'liberal' mean 'left-wing', in the rest of the world liberalism refers to the political philosophy of the same name. In the rest of the world 'left-wing' means communist.
Please endeavor to read at least a general textbook introduction about political philosophy if you intend to discuss it in good faith.
Gavin Rivera
I would love an elaboration on this. Never heard of this character.
I(OP)'m American so "americans treating it as interchangeable with leftist" is essentially how I perceive it. I don't spend time in left communities but if I did I would be able to differentiate that someone implying liberal is something other than leftists is obviously a foreigner. It would quickly become a "tell." But most of r/chapo are Americans and they tend to use the same linguistic tic, so it comes across as misleading, whether it be deliberate or caused by personal mental gymnastics.
John Perez
pretty much this, if you read Hobbes, and then understand the crisis of the state under capitalism
pro-tip Hobbes did not live or write in the time of industrial capitalism
Hudson Lopez
I put forth that this is from the American point of view, talking to you from a website created by several American expats, still owned and run by Americans, and coming to this question, in good faith, after seeing this word "liberal" be used by primarily American podcast hosts and audience members who seem to think it means something other than what it's percieved as by the vast majority of their countrymen.
Ryan Peterson
Capitalists are a class, liberalism is an ideology pushed systematically.
It is more or less nested in everyone in a capitalist society due to living in one.
Communists try to rid themselves of this by means of education, criticism and self-criticism.
Jace Murphy
I would say that Liberals can become fascists under certain circumstances, you cannot equate the two.
Joshua Watson
A lot of the most popular leftist theory is older than the modern usage of the term liberal's birth in post-war America, so people get very comfortable using the language they read and then the language they use to discuss those ideas with others, and by the time they move down the grapevine to talk to you it's stuck and they sound like weirdos rather than merely people speaking from a different perspective. Language loves to shift terminology and reuse terms for all sorts of different, yet related ideas, it's all too common for people to get confused by it.
Phil Ochs is a leftist figure most well-known for his song 'Love me, I'm a Liberal' which is in essence mocking the classic concept of the young leftist with a heart of gold who ends up conservative-minded by the time they're middle-aged. It's not 100% accurate but it's a popular way of mocking people who give the spiel of 'well I used to think things could change but then they didn't so now I'm jaded and thus smart', but it's not exactly backed up by tons of complicated theory and thinking thus why you're more likely to hear chapo-types using liberal in the looser definition like this as compared to the definition used by modern society or the one used by your well-read leftist types.