Why are Lib cucks and Chapo Cucks so obsessed with "freedom" and anti-authoritarian?
When these cuck petite bourg speaking of freedom, it just means his personal life freedom. I could fuck girl A/girl B, I could make a "career" in NY/LA, etc.
When American masses talking about freedom, it means nothing concrete besides I can choose from 10 different brands of juice. Real American people don't give a fuck about bourg freedom. Take a look at Donald Trump, his style is full authoritarian, does is ever damage him, or instead helping him?
You already said it, they are Lib cucks, that's what lib cucks think.
They are scared of masses, they oppose mass movements in any shape or form. They are scared of the people.
Christopher Wright
Because from a purely political angle telling people you don't want freedom which despite it being a vague term is very important to people in most of the Liberal world Dosent work that good
Xavier Harris
Yeah, they all in the the mind set that, for any slightly form of organizing, they will yell "totalitarianism!!!!!". Hell, even building muscles becomes first step towards authoritarianism, fucking hell.
I mean, I don't even think American public really THAT like "freedom". They like to say so, but just look at Trump's popularity.
Hudson Sanders
The USA passed the point of tyranny that the founding fathers had and no one went and shot people despite that being what the 2nd amendment was for.
Henry White
The irony is that the USA is about 100x more authoritarian than the USSR ever was its just better at covering it up and goes about it more through threats than overt violence
Austin Adams
Cuz they refuse to read a book. Internet memes define their whole political views.
James Martinez
They are very, very concerned about anti-authoritarianism when it's about left wing movements in other countries but they're willing to shill for any semi-social democratic functionary of the US empire.
Luis Bell
fucking brainlet
Easton Parker
I'm not even pro-authoritarian but Jesus Christ why do they always have to talk like that? Can't they just say something like Lenin is a strong, tough, leader figure? Take over a tough country, in a tough situation, some lines like that? It WORKED. Look at the results Trump did salesman job on Kim:
Except they're against 2nd ammendment freedoms, freedom to not pay taxes(at least for the average joe) and a whole raft of other freedoms. I think they're more libertines than libertarians.
Brody Foster
Is this your first day on Zig Forums? When people say 'libertarian', they don't mean the burger meme ideology.
Hudson Rodriguez
Chapocucks are literally just liberals who pretend to be radicals on the internet. They are the DEFINITION of Red Liberal and/or "Vulgar Marxism". They have no revolutionary potential at all because they are almost all petit-bourg whose cozy little pointless life was frustrated by the 08 crash and Obama's failure to remedy said crash in an effective way. Not only do most of them not actually want socialism, I'd be willing to say the majority of them don't even want Social Democracy out of a sense of bettering life for working people or something like naive socdems do. In my experience their attitude, their material conditions and class backgrounds, and their praxis of supporting the Democrats and "shifting the overton window" are all signals that they only want a Social Democratic state out of some idea that it would lessen the chances that their cushy little trustfund baby lives would ever have to be upset by the internal contradictions of capitalism ever again.
Therefore they do the same bullshit that all liberals do where they claim to be against "authoritarianism" (without ever really defining what this or their other boogeyman "totalitarianism" even mean or why they are innately bad news for the working class) when its being practiced in other countries and pretend its because their heart bleeds for the workers in those countries. But really its because they know that if a truly Socialist government did come to power and it was totalitarian in the sense that it was ready to expropriate capital to create the material conditions necessary for communism, they would be fucked, and either have to give up their idiotic, self-serving cosmpolitanism and join the proletariat in a real struggle to build socialism or be put in a gulag.
Pic 100 percent related Marx and Engels dunked on these faggots a century ago
Of course there are exceptions, such as Engels himself, but on the whole the petit bourg only serve to perpetuate capital whether it is by supporting Social Democracy or Fascism. You're naive if you think they will become a generally revolutionary class out of nowhere
Jack Harris
My point is only that we should focus on the exceptions. Times have changed. We aren't going to find a "generally revolutionary class" anymore. Where is this great first-world working class that will support the revolution? It's gone, largely melted into the petit-bourg and lumpen classes. They're dependent on the capitalist system to maintain their material comforts. If we want to build a revolutionary movement we have to learn to work with that.
Luis Martinez
You realise the folly of trying to get a Marxist to acknowledge that it's not 1867 anymore, right? They literally cannot wrap their heads around the idea that society works in different material conditions now than those described by Marx.
Henry Scott
Why is it that the most terrible opportunism always starts with these words?
Gabriel Williams
You can't kill your way out of societal apathy
Nathan Sanchez
Nice try sweaty go back to r/ChapoTrapHouse
Anthony Nguyen
summer really is here hint: working class doesn't mean dudes who work in factories
Brody Peterson
Holy shit. Where are these strawmen coming from?
Not opportunistic. We just have to realize how the contradictions of capitalism are working against these people as well.
We should try to subvert succdems and liberals, not support them. Just be a bit sympathetic for what they're trying to do. Educate them about where it's going to go wrong.
Of course it fucking doesn't idiot. My point is that the current working class relies a fuckton on benefits given to them by the capitalist state and the market. Their retirement fund is dependent on how the capitalist economy is doing. They also on the exploitation of the third-world working class for their way of living. You can't ignore this shit. They're petit-bpurg.
Dominic Walker
But that's the point you fucking retard. The majority of chapocucks are educated enough to know the problems with Social Democracy and choose it anyway because it suits their class interest.
This is how I know you either haven't read Marx or didn't understand him. You have to go back
Charles Cruz
The phenomenon of the "new middle class" or "petty bourgeoisation" of the working classes is a historical anomaly and we see it crumble everywhere over the western world.
That's complete bullshit. If they were acting in their own class interests they wouldn't be social democrats, they'd be libertarians. They've adopted characteristics of both.
They're grasping for fascism in their attempt to save it. We should work on showing them an alternative to that.
Not at all what I'm doing. Work on your reading comprehension.
Leo Long
Yeah just like how all those European petit-bourg totally started lolbert parties and didn't allow social democracy to flourish to pacify the working class for the last 3 decades amirite
How many American proles own small businesses, have anything substantial in their savings accounts, own their own property and aren't just renting in some form or another, have any vacation time and so on and so forth?
Luis Foster
Because that's totally what chapocucks are worried about, pacifying the working class. You're talking nonsense. They depend on being able to get all kinds of benefits and credit when they need to. This makes them petit bouj in my view.
Jacob Russell
The American definition of freedom is market freedom. This has very little to do with the population or democracy. Democracy itself is antithetical to market freedom since market freedom often contradicts the needs and desires of those who are not directly in control of the means of production. I think Americans do have an interest in personal liberty but they have a highly skewed view of what that's supposed to entail for them personally. It isn't as if their views are expressed by the media or the government anyway so it really doesn't matter what they think in regards to their personal freedom, if its against the narrative of the capitalist or the state then it will be simply dismissed as radical regardless of its popularity among among the proletariat. The issue of single payer health care and the legalization of marijuana corroborate this rule of thumb fairly well.
Julian Long
For the petit-bourg (and occasionally the normal bourg) to defend their class interest they must pacify the working class with an extensive welfare state and reintroduction into the culture of class collaborationism as an inherent good thing.
"Your view" doesn't matter. Marx, Engels, and those who have followed their line of thinking have specific definitions for bourg, petit-bourg, and proletariat. Marx and Engels and all of those who have called themselves Marxists (except for Mao and Maoists) accept that the proletariat is the fundamental revolutionary subject and the only one that can truly abolish capitalism.
Levi Robinson
Yes, actually. Idek where you are. I'm in the south and even here loads of people think he's shit. I'm not even saying authoritarian policy is useless - it's extremely useful for suppressing people, but as is Trump's ability to do so is limited and contributes to his unpopularity nationwide. Most Americans hate this guy (the 3 million fewer votes he received wasn't just 'cuz California), and even a lot of the ones who don't hate him will try to rationalize it with typical "4D chess" wank or simply don't acknowledge Trump's actual existing policies.
In fact, I'd say it's often the media that underestimates the public on these matters. It's definitely an under-discussed problem that the state already has way too much control - but the solution to this actually is anti-authoritarianism. For some retarded reason (that I won't mention), the idea that the left could support freedom from the state fell a bit out of favor during Obama - I saw people (ostensibly left-wing) offering apologetics for the NSA and the Patriot Act as though these things were completely trustworthy. I like to think they now regret having dismissed the danger that such power could ever be in bad hands.
I get what you mean about bourg freedom, but I mostly see that with people who defend the status quo - discrimination, classism, or even the validity of their basic rights seem to matter little, and even less if the "right" party is in power.
Luis Diaz
Personal and political freedom is the goal of socialism, if you disagree then you can fuck right off. Yes authoritarian measures may become necessary during a revolutionary situation, but only as a means to an end in extreme circumstances. Everything we do as communists is done in order to enhance the individual’s power over themselves, not subject them to some hellish barracks communism of the kind Marx explicitly denounced. The end goal of communism is a society that allows for the uninhibited development of every individual according to their own wishes.
Nobody ITT denied any of this you stupid faggot we were literally just shitting on liberals using knee-jerk reaction fear of "authoritarianism" to perpetuate capitalism you dumb cuck
Also your picture and post smells of reddit you should go back
Adam Peterson
Kek, newfags need to leave.
Aiden Cox
Boom on this here. Most modern day ‘Marxists’ don’t remotely use any actual Marxist analysis of the present conditions of things, just some weird romantacist LARP about how angrily quoting mao through their little wire frame glasses at actual organizers is gonna show those ‘R-rosa kyllersss!’ that they mean business.
Tyler Sanders
This. I have more respect for socdems that are actually out organizing than I do for worthless keyboard warriors.
Christian Jones
Remember your own words when you throw around "fascist" or "fascism"
Joshua Sanchez
How about focusing on the FUCKING WORKERS instead of these EXCEPTIONS?
You know, THE MAJORITY OF HUMANITY?
Like the retard who wants to divert all resources to making 0.0001% of the US military "woke".
If you're a working prole but you defend imperialism because you benefit, then you aren't an enemy of the bourgeoisie, you're just a cop.
Blake Nelson
It's about trust No one trusts each other So it's no surprise they want to hand others power over them Even those who do support authoritarianism, are they giving up power, or do they expect themselves to be the future benevolent rulers?
