I think there's a lot of valuable insight into some areas of what you might call "academic feminism", and indeed Marxists headed the first real women's liberation movements, but now I feel that the rank-and-file of feminism, what we might call the "movement", has degenerated into a cult of man-hate as it has come to be dominated by what are in essence the female versions of MRAs, MGTOWs and incels. What's more, it's infested with idealists whose idea of praxis is just pissing everyone off when they're not engaging in some circlejerk of performative bullshit.
Is there any way to reclaim feminism and rehabilitate it into something more Marxist, more materialist and dialectical? To try to separate out the wheat from the chaff and create a new feminist movement that leaves those nutty bumblefucks behind?
I think it’s important to isolate these people, let them go jerk off in a corner while we actually try to solve things.
Jordan Barnes
I wasn’t doubting that there is good Marxist feminist literature, just the need to rehabilitate Marxist feminism and separate it from idealist feminism.
Parker Sanchez
There are already plenty of Marxist feminists. Liberals will be liberals, we can't erase their cultural hegemony without a proletarian revolution.
Brandon Anderson
I was talking about driving more of a wedge between Marxist and idealist feminism, and trying to disassociate idealist feminism ism from our movement.
Zachary Turner
God I hate this image. It isnt welldone, which wouldnt be an issue if it wasnt in 1 of every three Zig Forums "Perhaps feminism isnt evil" threads. Look Anons, Ill tell you this.(Perhaps attempt to strain your brain, rough up that smooth surface) Feminism is good. The only way to """reclaim""" it is to offer the Socialist position, and to take real, actual, not on the internet action from a Socialist group. There is no subverting Capitalism, for all of you who forget that basically all feminists are liberals. We cant steal the capitalism out from under their nose by marching to their beat, but, the answer isnt accelerationism either, (for the really, really stupid Anons here).
Oliver Allen
Yeah, it is, they’re the Lefty equivalent to the incel. But to your point, I think the ‘man-hating’ problem of feminism is very, very overstated and exaggerated. Sure you see it on Tumblr and Twitter a lot, but keep in mind that those are usually the volatile guttural emotional reactions of women who aren’t well versed in theory but still know that something is wrong. It’s best to compare it to riots in black and Latino communities, in that they’ve got a reason to be mad, but it just is unfocused and misdirected thanks to liberalism.
John Stewart
Marxist feminism was never in the shitter, liberals just started ignoring it. O.K. some fucktards did star the whole "marxism has been neglecting women" and nonsense like that.
Zachary Nelson
A lot of the mainstream discourse I’ve seen coming out of feminist circles basically amounts to man-hating, like “toxic masculinity” and “emotional labor”.
Which are actually concepts I don’t disagree with from the academic end of things, but within the “movement” often just amounts to man-hate circlejerks.
Logan Sanchez
But there you have it, you’ve got genuine ideas in academics circles, but they lack a Marxist foundation to really build on, so instead they just get tossed around my women who are in general justly angry at the world, and that ‘man-hating’ is the form it takes.
Mason Williams
Ok? Im just telling you basic, logical facts about Socialist action. Why do we care about liberal conceptions of feminism? A lot of it is bourg women being upset/being upset on behalf a bourg women/being upset on behalf of petite bourgeois women/to infinity. The only reclamation that can be done is through Socialism. Everything else is masturbatory, just fanciful motions in the dark. For example, women gaining the right to work, gained women the right to be subjected to wage labour, which is unironically good, because they can at least choose which shitty end they prefer. (Wife or worker). But without an understanding that Capitalism is the root of lots of peoples problem, we are just expanding Capitalism like the liberals.
Adam Phillips
That’s what I’m getting at, we should try to do this, and I’m a way where is clearly distinct from idealist and reactionary feminism.
Benjamin Howard
Why tho?
Kevin Campbell
Because lots of people care about feminism, and Marxist feminism should have a bigger voice in the sin of idealism and liberalism.
Gavin Anderson
Can't we just not bother? We should avoid this shitshow and focus on anti-capitalist praxis? If someone asks we just go "sure, we're feminists. but true justice for both genders can only be achieved if we get past the capitalist mode of production."
Noah Hall
That is basically what socialist/marxist feminism is. Of course not that crap called "postmarxism" that was created in the lates 60s in the USA.
Lincoln Bell
Within the left it’s not so easy to avoid, and I don’t think some of the insights of academic feminism ought to be entirely ignored.
Nathaniel Cooper
So? Lots of people care about capitalism. Marxism doesn't NEED feminism though. It's completely capable of analyzing the problems associated with feminist issues on its own terms.
Asher Ross
Because women do care, and tbh, it’s just a bad look for a genuine revolutionary movement to just be filled with white men. We gotta have every one who isn’t bourg. We’ve gotta actually work to appeal to everyone’s unique concerns under capitalism, because no one will get it if we just do nothing but blast exploitation. People have other worries that they don’t realize are rooted from the superstructure. The black man who can’t go online without being called the n word a dozen times or nearly has a heart attack when he sees a cop car. The women who can’t have a medical procedure without Jesusfreaks throwing eggs at her. These things aren’t obviously connected to an anti-capitalist platform, so we’ve gotta explain and focus on why they are.
Lincoln Lopez
Feminism isn’t inherently reactionary, and an examination of gender relations and their relation to material conditions and the mode of production is worthwhile, I think.
William Cooper
seperated in any capacity from scientific socialism, it is. Feminism needs Marxism, Marxism doesn't need Feminism. Yeah, you can do that with Marxism. It was already being done before feminism. Marxist-feminism is a misnomer.
James Gray
It effectively becomes a form of feminism at that point.
Jason Nelson
KO, ebin :DDDDD you can publish a paper about this :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD not being sarcastic here almosd :DDDD
No, women shouldn't be kept out of politics and political discourse, as they lack a concept of justice, fairness or logic outside of muh "fee-fees". Femshit was biggest mistake we ever made.
Sebastian Morales
Feminism is Marxist in the same way that Marxism is jewish supremacy.
The problem with Marxist feminists I'd that they carry a lot of ideological baggage from their lib and rad feminist days and are hostile to differing points of views from men. They also seem to scapegoat capitalism for all the gender problems facing young men and women, despite the fact that these issues exist in pre capitalist societies. They need to. Stop believing that the destruction of capitalism is somehow going to bring about an egalitarian or feminist utopia. I don't know, I don't think we need feminism right now considering the left's alliance with feminism is what's contributing to the gender stratification of politics.
Juan Peterson
Aren’t you kind of contradicting yourself man. So Marxfems have baggage meaning they won’t listen to lefty men, yeeet, they also think ending capitalism will immediately erase all social ills? Even tho I’ve only heard that point hammered and repeated by male lefties? And if that was the case btw, then it would seem that feminism would need to stay integral to the left.
Adrian Cook
Honestly I am just not inclined to support anything out of pure altruism at this point, so I am not sure why I would go out of my way to stick my neck out for feminism or be one myself. I am actually fairly anti tradcon but the thing is most feminists don't give a fuck about how traditional gender roles may fuck men over, probably because they are disinterested in giving up the perks of gynocentrism, so I don't know why I would align myself with people don't give a fuck about me.
Most of us aren't calling for that though, most of us are just sick of the hypocrisy from feminists on men's issues.
Women should not be equal to men because women ARE not equal to men. They opperate on a completely different level physically, mentally, and metaphysically. We need them to focus on being mothers and homemakers in order to keep the human species going in a healthy and productive way.
Nah he deleted a post where he talked about not letting women have any say in politics. But I actually agree with you, lots of feminists do overlook mens liberation, and it’s a real problem, there’s no denying that.
Blake Reed
I feel sorry for you if your truly believe that there is nothing more to life than what your senses perceive.
Metaphysical enjoyment and experience of life is perfectly fine. Using metaphysics as a basis for justifying backwards political policy is fucking stupid.
Carter Edwards
You don't really need to do that, there are already a bunch of leftist feminists, they just don't get the spotlight.
What you have a problem with is what those people would call "liberal feminism", which is feminism under capitalism with no intent to change the system. Basically people who believe "we need more female CEOs, that ought to fix things" unironically. Since they reject the influence of economics on the problems they are covering, their understanding is limited and they end up moralizing a lot, which you might view as manhating. Keep in mind though, even liberal feminists are not as bad as you believe. The whole "feminism is anti male" thing is a right wing narrative a lot of people on this board are buying into, even though it's about as valid as "anti-racism is code for anuddah shoah". People have this idea that a feminist victory would result in sexuality ending and men being sent to some concentration camp, but practically nobody actually believes that, except for some tumblr teenagers who are pretty incel tier. Part of this "anti-male" narrative involves intentionally misunderstanding terminology, for example. You have "anti-SJWs" talk about toxic masculinity, assuming it means that some genetic aspect of men is inherently toxic, which means all men are bad no exceptions, but that's not what it means. People are socialized in their gender role and this involves them having to meet unjustified moral demands (read: spooks). Real men ought to do this, real me don't do that, if you don't behave like this, you are a beta male/queer/degenerate and so on *sniff*. None of these demands are based on a moral theory of any kind, they are just an example of the monkeys on the ladder, where people acting against the demands are punished. Toxic masculinity refers to aspects of this gender role, which, if applied, have a profoundly negative influence on the person practicing them and their surroundings. For example, if you have a person believing that it is manly (read: morally demanded of them) to behave dominant and aggressive, they will have less meaningful conversations and more fistfights in their life and be a toxic influence wherever they go. By pointing out these toxic aspects of how the current male gender role functions (gender roles change with time, some of this toxic stuff is relatively recent while some of it is pretty ancient poison), they seek to create change in how men are socialized and produce a more positive male gender.
Nathan Thompson
This
Lucas Martin
To expand on the previous point, metaphysics should be practiced and observed by the individual. It's an inherently subjective practice and you should go into it without an academic's prescription. Metaphysics is about "seeing for yourself" - are you really doing that if you're letting someone else tell you how to see? And it's essential to not pass value judgements on metaphysical criteria, precisely because of how intensely subjective and fallible it is.
Jackson Parker
Mate, even feminists love men who are benevolently sexist and who hold onto some trad masculine stereotypes when it benefits them.
No offense to MenLibs, but I think they need to start realising that as long as feminism at its core is a movement for the advocacy of the sexual, political and financial interests of women, feminists will continue to turn a blind eye to how men are still trapped by gender roles and expectations. Women are still attracted to brutes and trad men, and feminists arent going to shame women, for finding those types of men attractive, and pressuring men to fullfill those increasingly difficult standards, however hypocritical they are. MenLibs need stop trying appease feminists, because feminists will never take their concerns seriously or help liberate them from male gender roles and expectations. Theyre in fact perpetuating male gender roles and stereotypes by enabling male disposability.
I have noticed that in my own experience that it is women who tend to push “toxic” masculine norms the most.
I distinctly recall the moment in middle school when it officially was no longer kosher for a guy to cry, when this kid burst into tears over something and every ‘’girl’’ in the class started whispering about what a little pussy he was.
The whole thing comes across as especially disingenuous when the same feminists who whine about “toxic masculinity” turn around and piss and whine about their boyfriends dropping the mask and spilling their guts out to them and trying to use them for emotional support. I love one of the “solutions” they have too, that men should seek out ‘’other men’’ for emotional support, subtext: “‘’Yes, resist those toxic male gender roles, I would want to look like a hypocrite or anything, just somewhere far the fuck away from me’’”
Alexander Nelson
Okay your evidence for the idea that feminists are not going to be okay with Menslib or consider men’s issues is… that they find tradmen attractive? Enough with this weird reactionary “WOMEN NOT WANTING TO FUCK ME IS OPPRESSION” axiom, Jesus. If anything, women are only non considerate of white men specficially when they talk about men’s issues, but if it’s a man of color or queer dude they listen… so then just make people who represent the menslib movement queer or POC.
Jack Allen
This reminds me of a scene from my childhood. I had just left kindergarten and gotten into first grade. During the break, I went around the playground with my best friend from back then, holding hands and chatting. Not really sure who it was, but we got chastised and broken up by a female teacher who told us to not hold hands and that "the next time you are allowed to do that is when you have girlfriends". A big part of toxic masculinity is male emotions being diminished and that excess energy being channeled into libido and rage. What happened that day was part of this male socialization, being physically close to a friend was no longer allowed, even for little children, because it was branded as gay, and we were clearly told that the only person we are allowed to be physically close with is a future female sexual partner. No wonder men are so desperate for girlfriends, they are the only people they are allowed to be close to. This puts a big restriction on what kind of relationships a man can form with others and burdens his future girlfriend with a bunch of emotional labor, which normally would have been distributed evenly across the entire circle of friends the man has.
Bentley Walker
If youre not willing to change the sexual incentives that motivates men to behave in certain "problematic" ways, and in fact censor debates on how women contribute to unhealthy gender expectations for men, which leads to repression of emotions and a hyper competitive social arena for men, and other issues, then dont complain about why men espouse toxic masculinity, or why men are in a constant competition to be dominant. Its difficult to convince men to embrace novel gender norms when itll disadvantage them in their personal lives. Feminists and women in general want to have their cake and eat it too, whilst ignoring how they contribute to toxic gender norms.
Cameron Hernandez
If youre not willing to change the sexual incentives that motivates men to behave in certain "problematic" ways, and in fact censor debates on how women contribute to unhealthy gender expectations for men, which leads to repression of emotions and a hyper competitive social arena for men, and other issues, then dont complain about why men espouse toxic masculinity, or why men are in a constant competition to be dominant. Its difficult to convince men to embrace novel gender norms when itll disadvantage them in their personal lives. Feminists and women in general want to have their cake and eat it too, whilst ignoring how they contribute to the problems they demonize men for.
The problem with this is that it just amounts to moralizing. Instead of "teach men not to rape", you are saying "teach women not to spread toxic masculinity", putting the responsibility on individual women. This will not change the system and probably end up being ineffective.
Alexander Morris
Also to add to this, it should be understood that women only find these attractive because they’ve been socialized and conditioned to. But many can look past it when they are made aware of it, and even if they don’t… it really shouldn’t be taken as a baring on their willingness to fight for men’s liberation. By this logic, straight people could NEVER be pro lgbt since they don’t wanna fuck em. But now we’re even seeing more and more straight men even start to show more sexual interest in lgbt people, as they get normalized.
But doesn’t this very theory of yours further serve to dehumanize and spread more of this notion of toxic masculinity? This idea that men are primarily driven by ‘sexual incentive’, like I only act how I act because I want my dick sucked. Ignoring how men themselves instill this into their sons and peers to peers, usually through physical violence or verbal degradation. Or even how the workplace itself incentivizes men to be greedy and selfish, to be able to make a comfortable living. I’m not saying women don’t have blame, or that they have no responsibility in this struggle, but to try to throw the baby out with the bath water so to speak, and spout off this weird hyper sexualized world view, it truly sounds like neo-fascist axioms.
Except feminists did exactly that during the 70s, 80s, and 90s. There was a time when a woman who worked was seen as damaged goods, unmarriageable and masculine. Yet over time,. feminists who gained institutional power in academia and in the media began to deprogram men about those gender norms via the school system and the the media. Individually, Women shamed men who told their wives to stay at home. It became taboo for men to demand women to be a trad woman. They expanded the notion of femininity. Yet now, its easy for you to say, because i assume youre a woman that we must change or bring down the whole system to liberate men, despite feminism succeeding doing less for women. No, feminists succeeded because they placed responsibility for the oppression of women on mens feet, and not because they took down the whole system. Now that men want to do the same, lay responsibility to women for the fact that men are still trapped by gender roles, its wrong? Lol. Keep that Hamster wheel spinning.
Josiah Brown
Uhmmm you fucking ignore that throughout this entire time themselves put themselves at risk by being vocal about all this, organizing in public, really it was a combination of placing the effort at men’s feet by moving the goalpost in the first place. That’s how struggle between non class enemies should be won and resolved. Through both parties doing their part to change things. The same could be said for say Latinos and blacks, Asians and Latinos/blacks, blacks and lgbt, blacks and working class whites. In all these, the different groups have their own privileges, or places in society that has been handed to them by the bourg, and they have to work together to root these out and assert their own humanity in the face of an inhumane system.
Nathaniel Lee
Men rough each other, because they believe that being rough and dominant is needed to be attractive and to be on top of the sexual and social hierarchy. So they practice on each other. And to also gain an advantage in the social hierarchy, which is important in sexual selection. Same thing for fathers treating their sons like shit. They think for their sons to succeed in a cut throat world against other roughened up men, they need to be rough, assertive and dominant as well, so they could get the money, and get the girl. My father treated me like shit because he thought the same.
Gavin Sanders
This view reduces all social phenomena down to sexuality. A father mistreating a child may also be caused be all kinds of other factors. Sure, sexuality is a factor, but not the only thing that matters.
Dominic Richardson
Men are only conditioned to believe that hyper sexuality is an absolute need tho, unlike needing a shelter, food, etc. And that is also ignoring that men teach young girls that trad masc is attractive, in order to further the existence of the economical, NOT the sexual creating the economical. Capitalism wasn’t born out of women suddenly deciding they wanted to fuck guys who were too selfish to eat them out, that’s absurd, it was quite the opposite. Capitalism started to form, and as such, past traditions(like it being considered okay for a man to cry), died as a new masculine ideal was enforced to match the new mode or production.
Lincoln Robinson
And you know what, it may have not worked out for me, but my brother is the toughest mofo i know, and women go crazy for him,despite being an average looking dude. And hes a sociopath.
Benjamin Howard
Wow, truly something to aspire to, eh?
Brayden Watson
Female sexual preference does affect culture and behaviour among men. Im sure its not 100 percent the cause, but youd be delusional or a woman who doesnt understand a males experience to think it doesnt atleast contribute . Im part pacific islander, so I know
Isaiah Garcia
It seems the other way around to be honest. Like glam rock andro style suddenly making women into ‘feminine men’ during the 70’s-80’s. Hmm it’s like those men who exhibit a high level of power and success in capitalist society dictate sexual preference, fascinating…
Lincoln Nelson
Well if Sex wasnt such a motivator for men, we'd still be living in caves dont ya think? Remember, throughout much of human history, 60 percent of men didnt breed compared to 10 to 20 percent of women. Its a lot cut throat for us, whic his why we take more risks.
Carson Miller
Well then, I guess feminists will have an easy time to convincing women to stop contributing to unhealthy gender norms if masculinity is so malleable? Im sure you dont have to resort to destroying the whole capitalist system, which is unlikely, to help MenLibs. You seem to finally agree with me?
Christopher Diaz
Well one, the point is that women’s sexual preference is not even the main grievance of menslib… so no, that’d only cover a small bit. Secondly, most would agree and have issue with still letting bourgies and the fluctuations of the chaotic market determine how we act from our day to day lives.
What? First of all, scientific progress happens when there is a reason for it to happen. People in the middle ages had pretty cool war machinery, yet they never built farming machines, because there was no reason to. You had tons of cheap labor, just get 20 more goons on that field instead of starting some expensive research project. Neither the people inventing those war machines nor the engineers during the industrial revolution built tose machines with the sole intent of banging more women. Even if you look back to the agricultural revolution, the domestication (just a sidenote, domestication and genetic manipulation are the same thing except one is slower and less accurate) of plants was not done to bang more women, it had a bunch of other benefits.
Your story about men being the driving factors of what we consider progress and their drive being entirely motivated by libido sounds like some /r9k/ x Zig Forums nightmare realm.
Sebastian Foster
I hate to break this to you, but glam rockers and their fellow travelers were ultra masculine, they just expressed in a ‘’slightly’’ different way from orthodox traditional masculinity.
Camden Hill
The main grievances of menlibs is that they want to explore different and perhaps less toxic forms of of masculinity without being socially punished for it by society and by women. So changing the sexual preferences of women is important for Menlibs, but it isnt everything. Men will never be free from gender roles as long as they are punished or discentivised for stepping out of line by womens sexual preferences.
Brandon Smith
I don’t know about slightly. The dudes wore womens clothing and sung with very feminine vocalizations, and even if they were actually fucking lots of groupie girls, it’s not like their public personas was loudly bragging about it the way a rapper would. They often got big off love songs too. And if you want an even better and more recent example, look no further than the emo era. Or even the resurgence of emo influence on modern hip hop.
Noah Sullivan
Btw, marx was against feminism and fem idpol in general, so if you think the fact that we cant talk about these issues because it isnt in the Marx manifesto, then we shouldnt be talking about whole lot of other issues as well.
Adam Harris
Well to an extent I agree, but not with the way you’re trying to phrase it. Incentivized? Sure. Punished? Women not wanting to sleep with you isn’t punishment, especially when it’s not even a universal thing exactly. And that way of thinking is exactly toxic masculinity to a t. Even the idea that men could never be happy until they could act less toxic masculinity and still get to fuck often and with lots of partners, is trapped in the idea of men needing hyper sexuality. Rather if this hyper sexuality were relieved in some other way(like guys hugging one another more, being more platonically intimate), this would be alleviated.
Alexander Stewart
feminine Aesthetics=/=the total role reversal of gender roles
Jaxson Gray
But as a precursor to modern feminist thought, take this quote here bud Your very conception of sexuality is itself bourgeois.
Jonathan Parker
Never said that they were a total reversal of gender roles, but defintely not just a slight shift from Tradmasc ideals.
Parker Garcia
I believe women will fall in line once things start going down and the whole feminist idpol will quietly calm down as the rapid ones will just hang from lamp posts anyway. Violence is great weapon against females and is not utilized right now, which is causing them to act even more bold. Why would anyone here shill for feminist idpol I don't know, do you really believe there's going to be a peaceful solution?
i never said anything about punishing. Stop putting words into my mouth. But it would help if feminists could stop pretending every man who raises this issue is an alt right incel misogynist, and censor them. If I told Marxist feminist or feminists about my opinion without even a shred of misogyny or hatred, Id be called a hate preacher and a misogynist. It would also help if we stopped pretending that women dont contribute to the problems they demonise men for. And no one has said anything about hypersexuality. A lot of men just want relationships, and for guys who, like me, who arent trad masculine, that means faking it or being completely unsuccessful with women. And if you think that how women choose their partners doesnt affect male behavior and pressure them to behave in certain way, then you are aincapable of putting yourself in mens shoes aor empathizing wtih men. If youre in love with a girl who only dates guys who behave in certain way, then you want to be that guy. It has nothing to do with trying to bang millions of women. Guys want to be loved. You seem to be another feminist who simply cant empathise with men.
William Ross
i never said anything about punishing. Stop putting words into my mouth. But it would help if feminists could stop pretending every man who raises this issue is an alt right incel misogynist, whilst using their influence in the media to censor them. If I told a feminist about my uncontroversial opinion without even a shred of misogyny or hatred, Id be called a hate preacher and a misogynist. It would also help if we stopped pretending that women dont contribute to the problems they demonise men for. And no one has said anything about hypersexuality. A lot of men just want relationships, and for guys who, like me, arent trad masculine, that means faking it or being completely unsuccessful with women. And if you think that how women choose their sexual or long term partners doesnt affect male behavior and pressure them to behave in certain way, then you are completely incapable of putting yourself in mens shoes. If youre in love with a girl who only dates guys who behave in certain way, then you want to be that guy. It has nothing to do with trying to bang millions of women. Guys want to be loved. You seem to be another feminist who simply cant empathise with men.
Levi Gray
Uhm… dude. I’m a fucking guy. I empathize with what you’re talking about exactly, and I know that you are just not talking to the right feminists. Because I talk to feminists who believe in menslib, and understand our points. I know support groups for the feelings of pressure we face. But it’s hard in this political climate to bring points up like this when there’s so much more dire things at stake. When we’ve got fucking fascists holding public rallies throughout the US and Europe, with people they like in office. When we’ve got an already tattered left. Yeah under these circumstances, it’s hard to take seriously the average straight dude(like us) concerns about their personal relationships and sexual preference of women societally. I disagree with you because I also empathize with how it must feel to be a confused idpol lib, whose ideology has failed me, sense of justice violated at every term. It’s our goal and duty to put aside our desire for nookie man, if for just a bit, to reach out to these people and really educate them. But we’ve gotta accept that there are bigger fish to fry.
Dominic Thomas
Sure thing buddy.
Joseph Ortiz
Feminists seem to like to conveniently brush off menslib as being more white than what corresponds to the demographics of the west in order to support their narrative. but anyone who has spent time in such circles knows this is bullshit. Whether this is because feminists are willfully ignorant or just being deceitful cunts I do not know. Honestly this isn't a male idpol thing for me, I just acknowledge that we live in a gynocentric society, I don't actually feel a special kinship towards other men and am actually extremely misanthropic in general.
Thats true but there still isn't any reason for young males to support feminism if its not in our interests to do so, and we already know tradcon/right wing views on gender are bullshit so don't bring that up.
But Marx would be disappointed how women are perpetuating the very thing they suffered. And Marx wasnt perfect. He isnt a prophet for god sake. We dont know what he would have thought of modern gender dynamics.
Liam Butler
Woah expert retort
Conveniently? I mean it’s just because that’s the way idpol has been taught to them, this whole throw the baby out with the bath water philosophy is ridiculous. Because I bet you, if you started showing these young women Marxist ideas, theyd be all for them, and then they’d be more receptive to menslib as well.
Jackson Garcia
there are men who are unwilling to empathize with other men when it comes to gender issues, just like there are poor bootlickers who cant empathize with the poor. Bootlickers come in all varieties. Cuck
Evan Gonzalez
Ridiculous conclusion, “idpol libs are popular in feminism so let’s just abandon the concept entirely, despite many marxists being feminist themselves”.
No he wouldn’t be, because he’d understand that they’re not intentionally trying to perpetuate the way the bourg are, they just legitimately do not know any better and have been taught that way.
Isaac Hernandez
And you dont think this issue isnt relevant to the rise of reactionary politics? Go read Angela Nagles KILL ALL NORMIES.
Xavier Williams
Never said it wasn’t, but we shouldn’t be blaming average young working class women for being spoon fed this shit. Also I love that book.
Nolan Torres
Anyways I feel like I’m sorta ‘holding the fort’ as it were on my side of this issue, but I gotta sleep.
Caleb Rogers
So in that same line of reasoning, i guess you would have supported tradcons push against spousal abuse legislation "since its mostly hard working poor working class men just putting their frustration on their women".
Stop pretending women of any class dont have agency, as im sure youd agree that working class men also have agency to change their behavior when it came to their treatment of women.
