How do we reclaim atheism, particularly the uncompromising and hard line variety from edgy New Atheist liberals who think Muslims should all be exterminated and so on?
I feel that it of course isn't the most important thing for any Leftist movement to be virulently atheist and as the New Atheists have shown being an atheist can be quite reactionary. However, I feel that in certain countries, such as the USA which not only still has a strong Christian Right that is currently the head of state and also allies itself with countries such as Saudi Arabia and Israel one of which is a literal theocracy and the other is run by a coalition of secular and religious Jewish supremacists, and perhaps countries such as those in the former Eastern Bloc where reactionary Christianity has taken hold, it still has revolutionary potential
I think a good starting point is when Marx spoke of religion being the "opium of the masses". I feel that a lot of people, even Marxists, misinterpret this line. He didn't mean necessarily that religion was used as a narcotic, although this can obviously be extrapolated from it as well. Moreso, Marx meant opium how it was still used by many medical doctors at the time, as a painkiller. Religion is like a painkiller that blunts the trauma of capitalism's crises. In the neoliberal era this has become extended into things which, while on the surface, aren't necessarily religious, essentially function as religion, such as Jordan Peterson's cult, Kekistan "memeing" and so on, while many literal opiate addicts and alcoholics in the USA are themselves also Christians. I feel that if we emphasize the "painkilling" function of religion and religious-type activities under capitalism it would help build a materialist atheism that would be very revolutionary.
A good quote from Lenin that would be useful in helping us break with the New Atheist reactionary atheism that I wanted to include in the OP but it was making the body too long:
Left-wing/atheist pro-natalism imo is a good response beyond the obvious “propagate atheism!” And the “after the revolution…” approaches. Both are decent approaches but it shouldn’t be forgotten that children largely inherit their political/religious views from their parents.
The growth of atheism and/or social revolution will be greatly slowed if the majority of children are born to religious conservatives. There just isn’t a way around that.
Btw in the US, one of the few groups with a growing birth rate are actually upper-class families. Their birth-rate has actually returned to where it was 100 years ago.
Although I don’t the system can provide enough opportunities to children of top 10% families in order for them to remain in the top 10%—I do think if more of the children born are from top 10% families then as they descend into the working class, we will have some trouble trying to get them to abandon the social attitudes of their upbringing.
Carter Gonzalez
You know, I thought this thread was going to be shit, but I was wrong. This is just incredibly true. I wont quote your third paragraph, but I really like it too. Great thread man. I agree with this, but how exactly can we argue this? I also dont see how this necessarily benefits Socialism. For it to be worth pursuing for Socialists, it would have to somehow develop Socialism. I wouldnt want to push away a potential Socialist because they are Christian, either. Not to say I would prefer for the materialist basis to be forgotten to gain a few Christian "Socialists", though. Its a pretty deep well.
Where does Lenin say this? Great quote.
Joshua Edwards
Hardline leftists atheists are just LARPers. We are not fighting feudalism any more. Capital bends religion to its will. Also the working class tends to be less religious anyways these days. Hardline political atheism in contemporary times in just another form of idpol. Resist religious authority when it is oppressing the working class and then break it over the knee of the workers (God's chosen people) but don't abolsh it outright like some fucking liberal.
Kevin Moore
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Dominic Peterson
No one said anything about abolishing religion outright. None of your post is actually arguing, you are just asserting things or handwaving. Ill go over one example for your benefit. This is just an assertion, and it isnt even a concrete one at that. You need evidence. This is also just handwaving, so what that less people are religous? You might as well have just said "nah this isnt important" and put sage in all fields.
Christopher Howard
We don't. Atheism was a mistake. Religious tolerance is the only acceptable position. Anything else and people will shout ''muh cultural marxism'
Atheism wasn't a mistake, it was just necessary in places like Russia or Spain where the church had immense mafia-like influence and actively kept peasants in the dark while directly sponsoring fascism.
Today atheism shouldn't be a focus outside of American bible belt or Islamic countries where religion has real reactionary influence including economical.
Camden Parker
I agree with this to a point but I don't see why it precludes a reiterated focus on atheism
Again, if it is liberal atheism with no class analysis sure. But that's the point. Atheism can be a radical force if we analyze the roots of particular religious affiliations in specific circumstances and then extrapolate how, as Marxists, we should deal with them if we must
The point I'm getting at isn't to say "Abolish all religion instantly". I think it would have behooved Hoxha, for instance, to allow a more gradual phasing out of religion rather than the intense stigmatizing of it. The only reason its worked in the DPRK imo is because Asians aren't really very religious in the traditional sense anyway.
However I disagree with . We can be tolerant without sacrificing the atheist elements of Marxism entirely and certain religious factions are innately anticommunist so it would benefit us to start from first principles as atheistic
How are they atheists in any meaningful sense of the word? The New Atheists are empiricists and George Berkeley gave us a hint as to what empiricism leads to: a belief in an alien essence which endows us with reason through sense data itself, especially if sense data doesn't come from our minds. This alien essence is, for all intents and purposes, equal to God. Some have called this 'scientism'.
Daniel Cooper
I like to visualize "God" because it helps in meditation and helps keep me focused throughout the day. I don't think the overthrow of capitalism will change that. I consider myself Hindu btw.
I was born in an area that's majority hindu so I just accept it as part of my culture. I really like the artwork and symbolism behind many of the gods so im fine with it.
Atheism has been created by piggy to split the working class
Elijah Nguyen
If you call yourself and atheist you're in fact an idiot. The term atheist was made up by fearful believers who needed to throw all unbelievers in one category as to address their criticism. If you don't believe in anything you don't need a name for it…or do you have a name for not believing that the earth is a disc balanced on the back of three elephants who're standing on a giant turtle?
Adrian Garcia
We'll need reeducation camps to turn everyone into committed atheists.
