"Why Socialism is a threat to minorities"

Instead of individual capitalists deciding what to produce in their endlessly varied, constantly competing private businesses, “without any democratic input from the rest of society,” control over industry and decisions about what to produce would reside in state planning agencies. And imagine their decisions perfectly, if improbably, reflect the actual democratic will of workers, whether in the nation; or a state, like Ohio or Utah; or a metropolitan area, like Maricopa County or Oklahoma City.

Popular control is finally realized! So: How popular is Islam? How many Muslim prayer rugs would the democratic majority of workers vote to produce? How many Korans? How many head scarves? How much Halal meat would be slaughtered? What share of construction materials would a majority of workers apportion to new mosques?
Under capitalism, the mere existence of buyers reliably gives rise to suppliers. Relying instead on democratic decisions would pose a big risk for Muslims. And Sikhs. And Hindus. And Jews. And maybe even Catholics.  

Right now, under capitalism, vegetarians and vegans have more options every year. But there aren’t very many of them. Five percent of Americans are vegetarians. Three percent are vegans. Would “the workers” find a societal need to produce vegan meat or milk substitutes? No one knows the answer.

How important would worker majorities consider hair products for African Americans? What if a majority of workers decided that only English-language commercial reading material should be printed in the United States? Would planning bodies decide for or against allocating materials for sex toys? Or binders for trans men? Or sexually explicit art work? The birth-control pill has “massive public implications.” And remember, “only when the private decisions that have massive public implications are subjected to popular control will we have a democratic society.”
So, young leftists: Would you prefer a socialist society where birth control is available if, and only if, a majority of workers exercising their democratic control assent? Or would you prefer a society where private businesses can produce birth control, per their preference, in part because individuals possess economic rights as producers and consumers, the preferences of a majority of people around them be damned?

Democratic majorities fueled the “tough on crime” policies of the high-crime decades that produced mass incarceration.
After years of watching Black Lives Matter protests and police killings on YouTube, roughly 57 percent of Americans today say that they have “a great deal” or “quite a lot” of confidence in law enforcement. A majority favor the death penalty. Left-leaning New York City repeatedly reelected a mayor who favored stop-and-frisk. Maricopa County repeatedly reelected Joe Arpaio

If a majority elected a populist demagogue like Donald Trump—which very nearly happened in 2016 (when he lost the popular vote) and may well happen in 2020—he would preside over not only our government, but alsoover our social and economic realms.

theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/08/a-risk-that-democratic-socialism-poses-to-all-minorities/566528/

WTF I HATE SOCIALISM NOW

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I am usually one of the most anti-Zig Forums posters around but after reading this, I involuntarily sieg heiled and recited the 14 words. Is this normal?

Absolutely, kamerad

Look at this sniveling little shit, this slimy liberal fuck.

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Jesus Christ, liberals are the fucking worst

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The article is dumb, this picture is not.

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It's funny because he's making the demsocs/socdems seem way more left wing than they actually are. Also love how they imply that the government doesn't already have huge amounts of influence over the economy.

Honestly is this meant to be a argument against socialism? absolutely nothing looks bad here.

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Lenin is always trendy

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rlly makes u dink

…If they want fake meat so badly in spite of being vegan lmao then they can just band together and make it themselves. He's acting like human agency disappears completely in the face of the 'worker councils' and 'planning committees', not considering that the workers as a group includes everyone, even shitty spooked libs like vegans and himself.

He assumes that because that's how he is…the type of useless faggot that doesn't even know how to replace a tap or a light switch and hires someone to do it

The mask slips when someone tries to argue against socialism and they end up arguing against democracy.

But what if people democratically choose to hang all the blacks?

Then they're shit out of luck and hopefully they can defend themselves. But a racially tolerant dictator wouldn't be much help in the long run either.

people that promote indiscriminate killing of fellow countrymen because of their skin pigments are useless to society and must be shipped away and never return.

This is why liberals get the bullet too first.

0 islam can't exist

You don't get it, it's saying that Socdem is a threat to minorities, which is true, as social democracy is objectively the left wing of fascism.

Most vegans are so for ethical and environmental concerns, so there's not actually a contradiction here. People who enjoy the taste of meat but still choose a vegan diet will naturally be interested in "fake meat" kinda products.

This.

Also they seem to be assuming that America is already a democracy, which is just laughable.

Have you read the article? He's criticizing DemSoc not SocDem. DemSoc might have their issues but he is speaking against worker's democracy specifically and not just muh welfare.

His argument is basically that if workers manage production democratically then specific commodities marketed to minorities (fucking hair products for blacks lmao) might not be included in the plan.

Yes, god forbid we lose heinously overpriced “meat replacement” products that somehow manage to be more expensive than their meat counterparts depite being made from dirt cheap beans.

How do we refute him?

This

If the plan doesn't include afro care products or vegan burger patties you just gather together and start making them. Also a lot of shit he described or implied is superficial and something minorities could do without if it wasn't explicitly marketed to them. It's just standard extreme "tyranny by majority" strawman that assumes human agency and local decision making would just disappear.

I'm joking

Illegal
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0
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Good

edgy

Where to start? Does the author believe that in Russia under Stalin all shoes had exactly the same size? Does the BBC only do one show that it just repeats forever? The author conflates any sort of voting/polling procedure with winner-takes all elections. But it's possible to use a procedure originally proposed for proportional seat allocation like reweighted range voting and recycle that for allocation of cultural funds or whatever.

Should he have read Bordiga?

If we have to take away the soy milkies to feed everyone then I'm all for it. Fuck vegans

"what if democracy do bad"

This is easy - produce more factory parts and factories. That way there'll be more than enough resources so the workers who want to build soymilk and dildos can do it.

Conor Friedersdorf might be one of the worst public intellectuals (that's not saying much) in the United States.

Love it when liberals for one don't misrepresent socialism but instead insist worker's democracy is a bad thing.


As expected from an american.

This might actually be the thing that makes the red liberals jump ship.

This is the only sentence of your retard post I read, but blacks need to be deprived of hair products. Black women do the absolute dumbest shit to their hair.

shitposting flag

If actual real leftists took power, they would gulag and line the insolent lazy negros up against the wall first and foremost.

The first time a nigger decided he was going to drink 40's and smoke blunts instead of working for the betterment of society that nigger would be hung in a gulag.

In a sense, it is very similar to what the NatSaocs did to the lazy worthless kikes.

The nigger has very good reason to very the socialist. No more free gibs without earning it, no more handouts, no more acting like a degenerate nigger, no more stealing and murdering over a pair of sneakers, or it is gulag time in the ghetto tonight.

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i read this with a texan accent

Sooo, a Spanish accent?

que?

Oh my God
That white witch turned him into a baby!

This is what Get Out warned us about

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How can >kikes be both lazy and evil genius masterminds that control the world?

They WERE lazy kikes.
Just read any of the quotes from the great and mighty Patton to see Jewish behavior in the middle of the century and earlier.

“these people do not understand toilets and refuse to use them except as repositories for tin cans, garbage, and refuse . . . They decline, where practicable, to use latrines, preferring to relieve themselves on the floor.”

He described in his diary one DP camp,

“where, although room existed, the Jews were crowded together to an appalling extent, and in practically every room there was a pile of garbage in one corner which was also used as a latrine. The Jews were only forced to desist from their nastiness and clean up the mess by the threat of the butt ends of rifles. Of course, I know the expression ‘lost tribes of Israel’ applied to the tribes which disappeared — not to the tribe of Judah from which the current sons of bitches are descended. However, it is my personal opinion that this too is a lost tribe — lost to all decency.”

“This happened to be the feast of Yom Kippur, so they were all collected in a large, wooden building, which they called a synagogue. It behooved General Eisenhower to make a speech to them. We entered the synagogue, which was packed with the greatest stinking bunch of humanity I have ever seen. When we got about halfway up, the head rabbi, who was dressed in a fur hat similar to that worn by Henry VIII of England and in a surplice heavily embroidered and very filthy, came down and met the General . . . The smell was so terrible that I almost fainted and actually about three hours later lost my lunch as the result of remembering it.”

-Patton

Jews were slimy grubby disgusting degenerates. Only recently with great help from white westerners did they become more civilized and less savage and subhuman.

I am proud of how much the Jews have risen up the the disgusting Jewish stste they once existed in.

Thank you based white European christian for helping the disgusting kikes to be better humans.

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Didn't a bunch of white people die in the middle ages because they got fleas? Dirty motherfuckers right there.

What is local government?
What are trade unions?

I fully encourage fun. Can red liberals jump ship anyway?

Yes. And in any case, birth control etc. already had to be legalized through the democratic process in most countries. No reason to think that the people's decision would suddenly change under economic democracy.
Love to not have moved on from Joseph de Maistre. This doesn't deserve a response because this point is no longer debated by anyone except hardened reactionaries.
Just says "it was bad" without explaining what precisely went wrong with the soviet system or why, much less responding to any of the totally correct points made by Lenin in the quoted passage.
Surely this has nothing to do with cultural factors sustained in large part by the capitalist media, which pushes racist and pro-cop narratives. Surely Marxists haven't developed an entire theory of hegemony to address these questions.

Basically, the author is a classic lolbert who assumes that each social factor exists independently of all others, and everyone makes decisions entirely on their own based on their inherent nature and willpower. The Al-Ghazali theory of politics, if you will. And he betrays his elitist inclinations in thinking the majority will always be a mob who steal the freedom of ubermenschen like him.

Well i can understand the concern that a group might not support other ethnicities, things like language, religion, vegetarianism etc are ideas one can choose to change, adapt or abandon. They are no different than the "minority" of people who choose to whack it to traps.

op is a faggot that ignores material conditions and their effects on populations. it makes shit head bourgeois assumptions that people have no interest in their neighbors, understanding or helping them, and least of all in letting unlike individuals live and let live. they've subscribed wholly to the notion that their dog whistle notion of majority versus minority 'politics' means that you'll have to worship Allah and let niggers fuck your children.

anyone that isn't a worthless polcuck memefuck, bourgeois plant, or is just some one that has actually interacted with another human being, or read a single fucking history book, knows that diverse populations have coexisted and thrived together for millennia in the absence of ruling class propaganda setting the working class against each other to maintain the privileges of the wealthy.

fuck op and his imbecil psyop bullshit. no war but the class war, solidarity among the working class, and butcher the rich and all their toadying scum.

Of all the problems Islamic communists have faced, working out how many prayer rugs to make wasn't one of them.

Truly the way for the coexistence of diverse populations..

...

How do you want diverse populations to coexist, when you cannot but see people as enemies, either willing or manipulated, when they aren't marxists?

It is not my aim to foster diversity.
My aim is the transition from capitalism to socialism.
If diversity comes about because of my efforts, all the better. If not, it is no loss to me.

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And if people refuse this transition, in let's say.. iraq, what would you do then, bomb them into it?

Is real life a video game where every country is a hive mind that stops at the border?

So what then, selective bombing instead of carpet bombing?

...

Nope. I'm sorry here but I'll have to side with the nazis. If a crisis hits america and they will migrate in my country I won't accept them even if they bring socialism

Goddamn, what a fucking liberal. Do us a favour and shoot yourself like every decent nazi has ever done

No fuck you. You americans are the fucking worse. I'm anti-capitalist first, communist second

Alright, Mr.Chairman, the reports on iraq are in, we have scarce support restricted to a few enclaves, occupation and pacification of the rest country is likely to face a long and costly protracted guerrilla war. How many lives is their liberation worth to you?

capitalism doesn't provide any protection for minorities

Really now

Lolberts and liberals believe in Schrodinger's economy. The US simultaneously does and does not have a laissez-faire capitalist market, depending on what is convenient in an argument or polemic.

Lol at you comparing Capitalist """democracies""" to a Socialist state. This is a dumb "socialist" society. Why the fuck would I vote on whats produced or not? How am i supposed to understands the needs of a global society? Fucking retarded posters on here man.

Yeah, I especially hate it when retards miss plainly visible links to articles and instead believe that the quoted text is the actual opinion of the poster.

This

libertarians are usually against democracy

You still need special products to take care of natural hair too. It isn't just the scalps of Indian girls and silk caps.

Very good article. Nice to see that leftists are starting to be critical of democracy. Democratic socialism would be the worst system ever. The majority of people, rich and poor, have always been scum and will always remain scum. Visionaries and revolutionaries have always been and will always be a minority. Enlightened despotism all the way.

kill yourself

What part of dictatorship of the proletariat do you not understand?

No. You kill yourself scum of the earth.


What part of dictatorship of the enlightened do you not understand prole scum?

Are you enlightened?

Tremendously more enlightened than you or other any democrat, that's for sure.


Triggered that I criticized your bourgeoisie sacred cow called democracy. You commies should take some advice from Zizek who is against fetishising democracy and is for undemocratic rule.

are you talking about the idea of democracy, or bourgeois liberal democracy? because we don't consider the latter actual democracy.

You were probably banned for saying "prole scum" instead of criticizing democracy.

This but ironically.

Imagine permanently banning someone for critizing the most sacred cow of our era - democracy - the primitive system of ancient Athens which killed Socrates. The system venerated by bourgeoisie liberals since the 18th century and the current dominant system of the world.


I'm talking about majority rule, the purer it is the worst it is: representative corrupt democracy > direct pure democracy


Anyone who believes that the mere condition of them being a proletarian makes them superior and qualifies them to have state power over others is prole scum. I say this while being a very poor proletarian, unlike the bourgeois Marx, Engels and Lenin.


ISLAM WILL DOMINATE THE WORLD!
And don't you forget about that Western scum!

Heil

But, there would be several factories and places that could produce the things these minorities want. There would even be factories were these minorities would either be a plurality or majority. No single place would make that decision, the wouldn't be the same range of products, but that is such a daft argument

Uhhhhh


The answer is zero dipshit and that is the fucking point.

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have fun getting zero support in a large portion of the world

islam is less popular than you think

Why in fuck would we want pedo worshipping misogynistic gay hating cultists in a Socialist society again?

And where would those resources come from? Sounds capitalist.

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Yeah. Islam will change and fade, like Christianity has. And not so much because of intellectuals speaking out against it, but simply changes in material conditions and life around you just making the old ways of doing things outdated and inconvenient. Convenience is the ultimate Islamocaust. Hundreds of millions of young people with old-fashioned Muslim parents have already said yes to the occasional beer and internet titties and are now only Muslim on paper. They don't want to upset old family members, so the official stats are twenty years behind of what's really going on. In the coming decades, religious fundamentalism will become nothing more than an annoying little cat with delusions of being a lion, and only rarely seem big when used as an alibi for what are really conflicts over resources. It will never turn into a lion again.

As I'm typing these words, the internet titties are already penetrating the highest echelons of ISIS.

Get the lazy cunts to do it themselves lmao.
If they want to preach reactionary garbage let them do it without our support.

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Wrong, under communism only one type of each thing gets produced. Imagine a radio station playing one Nickelback song, forever. Commies BTFO.

yes
everyone wore the same clothes, drove the same car, ate the same food…

Liberals really are rainbow dictators.

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had the same sex, read the same book (one book), used the same names…

Eh, I would argue that reducing/stopping animal agriculture is definitely something that should be worked towards, for the environmental benefits, and just to reduce suffering. While I don't think veganism would be feasible worldwide under capitalism, due to the large amount of money that animal agriculture produces, a socialist society should make this a priority.