Black Nationalism?

Because it's not really a pre-existing force of any real measure. The reason why we use these countries is because they already exist and have some power to them. If we are going to foster movements, we may as well just cut out the middle man and foster communist movements.

marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1913/03a.htm
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NOI was/is run by the feds and killed Malcolm, yet Malcolm and his own followers had real revolutionary potential. The FBI was scared shitless of him, and was afraid he would become a "Black Lenin."

I don't because identity politics are all bullshit. Obama is piece of shit and so is hillary clinton. Most of black crapitalists are just as evil and white ones. Fuck all of them.

This also includes African american workers who have it far better than African workers, and have benefited a lot or on case like obama supported neo colonialism.

Damn I have to laugh everytime I read something from that brainlet anti-intelectual piece of shieeet.

Yeah I guess Lenin and his entire cabinet were wrong, since Stalin was voted into the sovnarkom for his writings and party work.

Yes, they were. Lenin was burdened by this decision on his deathbed.

This. Malcolm’s assasination, along with other black leaders during the CRM only proves my point.

But the point is that a black nationalist movement is still much more likely to happen than just a straight up communist revolution in the United States, the sentiment you can see even in today’s idpol, when most of the activists who are willing to engage in the most radical and almost-socialist actions are black activists.

Yes but they definitely don’t benefit as much on a mass scale, and since not much progress has been made for them under Obama, are even more skeptical towards the US government now

But fostering rival movements that would conflict with our own ideology will only make a revolution harder, even if they do successfully destabilize the US.

Yes and Stalin killed 300 trillion people too

Purges have nothing to do with Stalin's brainletism. Did you read the linked text? Like a 12 year old was writing it.

Yet, it were the black nationalists who supported obama, who in turn destroyed Africas biggest hope so far.

Not sure exactly what you're saying, so I'll clarify. Malcolm X is a perfect example of black nationalism that is revolutionary and deserves support from communists. Of course there is reactionary BN, just like there are reactionary forms of any nationalism, but there is also the flipside, which is revolutionary nationalism.

Paul Robeson was also great and a staunch supporter of Stalin, there are many great black leaders in American history.

Also recently, black activists in Ferguson (not BLM) were really threatening porky, hence the string of assassinations.

You are a fucking idiot using Black Nationalism as a blanket term for everything from the Panthers to the Congressional Black Caucus.

it is thought.Black nationalism is quite vague term, what do you expect though?

lol no. I hate americans. Blacks are not an exception.
Workers of the world unite against americans is my motto

It is a general term not appropriate for general condemnation.

Again the idea of any communist movement happening in the fucking United States is a FANTASY. There is precedent for a socialist black nationalist movement in the U.S., there IS NOT precedent for a legitimate communist movement in America
The point is to destabilize America’s ability to wage imperialism fucking quick, before we approach a total catastrophe

I’m OP… I’m agreeing you. And yes that’s another huge point. If Black nationalism was just a distraction or not a real threat to American capitalism, then why the fuck are black activists being mysteriously killed. Why is the FBI again showing fear of black nationalism, claiming it’s an increasing security threat?

This. Black nationalism is a general term, but you know exactly what I’m referring to because I keep saying it. Socialist, or socialist leaning, anti-imperialist, black nationalism.

Malcolm X was killed expressly because he achieved class consciousness and renounced nationalism.

He did not renounce nationalism, and he did not convert to socialism.

There is tho, the communist movement took two huge red scares to put down.

Reactionary trash. Black nationalists were always brothers and sisters to anti-imperialists. They are some of the most revolutionary forces in America that can be energized to destroy the imperialist machine internally.

Tbh I haven’t seen definitive proof yet that the government was behind the assassination of Malcolm X and not just angry NOI members. Maybe someone would care to enlighten me?

As for the Ferguson killings, it doesn’t seem clear who exactly is behind them. It could be the police and likely is but it could also be some Atom Waffen-tier WS group.

Indulging in conspiracy theories about assassinations is part of where the New Left fucked up. Call me a Chomskyite or whatever, but look at all the wasted effort poured into JFK conspiracies only for modern science to increasingly confirm the official story. Same with many other conspiracy theories popular with the New Left .

Not that I entirely disagree, but WNs say the same thing about their movement. Anything that could even just potentially disrupt the unity of the American empire is viewed as a threat by some part of it. “Ooooooh the FEDs are watching us” just isn’t a great argument

Not only are White Nats not a threat to the american hedgemony, considering they are funded by them, thier figureheads get all but a military detail when ever they want to sneeze in public.

In modern times…. Those red scares were very successful, and there is almost no semblance of a revolutionary communist movement in the United States, even within the last 50 years.

This, what a retarded fucking attitude was that. Anti-imperialism isn’t just some vulgar “I wanna see all muricans dead!!” It’s a real movement to dismantle the hegemony of the United States as a reactionary military and economic power, and that will almost definitely require inside resistance.

But they’re actually wrong. Law enforcement in the U.S. disproportionately ignores WN and far right violence, despite it taking the much larger number of lives in the U.S.
American politicians talk about WN and publicly condemn it, even then only half heartedly (“and some I assume are good people”), but then ignore it in their actions.

It boggles my mind how so many leftists can easily see through propaganda about other anti-imperialist regimes and socialist states for what they are, yet when it’s black nats, they swallow them fucking hook, line and sinker
That’s not to say some of modern black nationalists are like this, but Jesus Christ

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that's the same thing though

Read Lenin, if you don't "indulge in conspiracy theories," enjoy getting murdered.

The Feds ARE watching fascist groups, for the purpose of HELPING THEM. It is the exact opposite of how they treat real revolutionary groups. In fact, the REASON the Feds keep the KKK, AW, Aryan Brotherhood, III%ers etc. around is specifically as shock troops to attack revolutionary organizations. It is no different than the old Freikorps.

Agreed, but even black liberation is in an extremely amateur stage right now, frequently co-opted by groups like BLM. Anyway, you said there's no precedent, there's clearly a precedent. We should learn from the successes AND failures of the CPUSA.

Yes
Fuck that noise
Sure
Third Worldists and Marcyites don't have a monopoly over anti imperialism user. As for black nationalists, that is an interesting question to be sure. It depends since they could end up being a issue for communists in the future even if they are convenient ally in the present. This Jim Profit video lays it down pretty well actually.
youtube.com/watch?v=bKOTl5veUO0

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Modern gringo Black Nationalism is bereft of any Communist or Socialist sentimentality, they would gladly be accepted into the fold of the liberal status quo than to bring about the freedom they constantly talk about being denied

here you idiot chauvinists go again with the blanket statements

We should nuke america, its the only way to stop the cancer. You cannot cure a cancer, you have to kill it.

Okay, retard. Tell me how the modern Black Panthers and BLM and any other modern gringo Black Nationalism movement is totally not woke libshits that think that socialism is when the state gives you free education

Also this:>>2612389

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I agree with this. Americans are obviously unable to live with other people. They are too stupid, to dangerous, to unstable.
They are non historical people who need to be exterminated

Read Lenin for fucks sake.

It’s not though and that is a very serious political mistake to make. This a lot like saying that the police defending the liberal
Weimar Republic and the Nazi movement were the same. We can identify reactionary tendencies, biases and even crossover in both but to see the elected defenders of the liberal status quo and a radical fascist movement as the same is a big mistake. This is also why we should NOT protest any “repressions” and censorship measures aimed at these groups.

During the Weimar Republic, the Nazis were hit by some repressive measures by the state—not to the same degree or intensity as the communist movement was but it did happen. If some liberal city denied a far right group permission to march and then used the police to enforce it, we shouldn’t fight for their right to march on the grounds that they are an equivalent evil or be indifferent because it is two reactionary forces fighting imo

What this doesn’t explain is why we’re not living under fascism right now. Since the government does have the resources to implement fascism tomorrow if it chooses to. It’s pretty clear that liberalism is still the preferred method of governance for th US ruling class, fascism is, if anything, only a potential method to save capitalism out of many. That’s why even Stalin went so far as to say that the bourgeoisie didn’t want fascism but in fact it was forced upon them.

It dosen't change the fact that they are more likely to just carve their niche in the bourg spectrum instead of fucking creating a class abolitionist movement you fucking retarded mongrel gringo piece of shit troglodyte, theyre fucking useless

Prove this you useless imperialist ally
Black nationalists in the U.S. have proven far more useful and ready to engage in revolutionary activity than other so called communist parties that just resort back to reformist liberalism.

"Firstly, it is not true that fascism is only the fighting organisation of the bourgeoisie. Fascism is not only a military-technical category. Fascism is the bourgeoisie’s fighting organisation that relies on the active support of Social-Democracy. Social-Democracy is objectively the moderate wing of fascism. There is no ground for assuming that the fighting organisation of the bourgeoisie can achieve decisive successes in battles, or in governing the country, without the active support of Social-Democracy. There is just as little ground for thinking that Social-Democracy can achieve decisive successes in battles, or in governing the country, without the active support of the fighting organisation of the bourgeoisie. These organisations do not negate, but supplement each other. They are not antipodes, they are twins. Fascism is an informal political bloc of these two chief organisations; a bloc, which arose in the circumstances of the post-war crisis of imperialism, and which is intended for combating the proletarian revolution. The bourgeoisie cannot retain power without such a bloc. It would therefore be a mistake to think that “pacifism” signifies the liquidation of fascism. In the present situation, “pacifism” is the strengthening of fascism with its moderate, Social-Democratic wing pushed into the forefront."
- Stalin

Most of this was sheep-dipping, if you throw some fash into prison for a year they get more cred and they can build rapport with jailed lumpens. Hitler spent a year in prison where he lived in luxury.

yeah we are

Why aren’t you in prison then?

Because:
- Zig Forums shitposters are not a threat worth cracking down on right now (unlike the millions of working class Americans in prison, including hundreds of political prisoners)
- The Feds always bide their time, they deliberately allow communists to organize in relative comfort so that it's easy to keep track of them. Then when they get to a certain stage, the Feds come in and get them. Lenin described this very accurately in WITBD and LWC:ID

Go by what Huey Newton said about black nationalism. There is revolutionary and reactionary black nationalism, The former needing to be communist and the ladder is anything else. Now of days most black nationalist groups are reactionary.

To quote newton:

same ends.The Black Panther Party, which is a revolutionary group of Black people, realizes that we have to have an identity . We have to realize ourBlack heritage in order to give us strength to move on and progress. But as far as returning to the old African culture, it's unnecessary andit's not advantageous in many repsects. We believe that culture itself will not liberate us. We're going to need some
stronger stuff.

Their whole platform stems from being included into the liberal bourgeoisie plan you driveling mut, just because they protest does not mean they arent reactionary liberals.

Why?

Again, with your chauvinist petite bourgeois generalization of Black Nats that the daddy U.S. government taught you.

Read the thread before you comment dumb shit like this

BASED fucking Huey

...

Never said anything about ethnostates. And to be quite honest, wanting a "ethnostate" is but the logical conclusion of nationalism. So what is the point of fostering black nationalism, specially when the majority of black nationalists in America are just petit bourjs trying to be accepted into the system.

So are the majority of feminists, so-called democratic "socialists", and other leftist movements in the US. Even if the majority of people in those movements are reactionaries, that doesn't mean the radical portions of black nationalism which is informed by socialist principles and strongly anti-imperialist/fascist/racist is useless. It's the most potent form of radical leftism in the US throughout its history and it has the potential to be a force to agitate the system to its knees.

Only worthwhile post in the thread

This. This is the most important point to make. Consistently, as the population within the U.S. almost universally exposed to the most raw antagonisms of capitalism, the black nationalists have also been the most active, the most MILITANT. So much so that even casually, within the shambles that U.S. far left is in, their typical language is still finds common usage in black culture, in that term, militant. You describe anyone as ‘militant’, and it brings to mind the activism and genuine socialist projects of the past. The Black Panthers and their free lunch programs and revolutionary self-education. Hell even when we look at gangs this persists. In the prisons, especially in Southern California, the main black gang within that prison system is the Black Guerilla Family, a group that began as Marxist organization to retain dignity in prison. If there is any demographic within the U.S. that’s receptive at all to far left ideals and policies, on a mass scale, it’s black Americans.

who are you quoting

OP has a point, but I don't think any group in Burgerland right now is unironically working to topple the US state, well funnily enough groups like atomwaffen actually in recent years have done more unironic terrorism, along with the fed bombings, twin towers etc.

Any left wing group*

My bad

Well no shit. Any black nationalist knows that if they did that, every fed in their fucking state would kick the door down and blow him away. Not many of them ever openly talked about directly toppling the U.S. government, but had various ideas of what should be done in the U.S.

Because most Black nationalism only leads to "GIMME DAT WHITEY", see Africa.
Most Nations failed after the Whites left because they didn't had the knowledge to continue the country.

No, gringo, the US hasn't taught me anything because i don't live there. So stfu you useless fucking liberal, show me one fucking modern day gringo black nationalism group that espouses marxist philosophy in their modus operandi

your shit is retarded please leave or learn

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Name a situation where Blacks didn't end up asking for Gimme dats from whitey after they got Independence.
I won't say that the majority of them is stupid because of their skin-color but rather because most of them are uneducated and don't feel the need to improve.
And would rather blame whitey,"slavery" or racism.

Again with this fucking shit. “I hate America, fuck burgers blah blah blah”.
N-n GRINGO NO
Fucking pathetic.

burger confirmed

My god so this is what Chavez had to deal with

They support the capitalist order, by definition they are liberals you ahistorical mutt

Do you support Assad in his anti-imperialist struggle?

black women are desperate to have sex with white men

Modern day gringo Black Nationalist groups do not espouse any desire to end the USA just be integrated as equals into the bourg class. Any leftist sentiment was shot out of them 40 years ago. Whats so fucking hard to understand about that your fucking burger?

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Minorities are inherently more prone to radicalization than most whites for they have felt the heel of the boot

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Minorities are inherently more prone to radicalization than most whites for they have felt the heel of the boot

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lol

And then they'll turn on anyone who isn't black because they are racial nationalists and supremacists.

Lmfao what the fuck. What do you think black nationalist even means you dumb little fuck? Do you think Obama was a black nationalist?
Completely false, black nats have consistently been suppressed, but they’ve never fully haven up. Even in the prisons they kept their sentiments. And all it would take is to radicalize them and revitalize the movement to deal a blow to imperialism by attacking it at home, yet you wanna make assumptions about a movement in a country you don’t even live in, because you’re not actually anti-imperialist.

Absolute autism, actually read the rest of the thread

spooky statement

You know what he meant. Not inherent in the sense that there’s some quasi spiritual idea of an ‘eternal black’ always being kept down by the ‘eternal white’, rather the material conditions faced by minorities in the USA are built into its framework, economically, legally, and culturally.

What makes you think black nationalists will do a better job at destabilizing the USA than Donald Trump is already doing lol

Whynotboth.gif

precisely

Wow this thread still hasn't been taken down by the mods and OP still hasn't been banned good for him.

wow, really makes me think! I guess i support racial supremacists now!

I mean we literally have a black power and black nationalist flag
There’s nothing wrong with anti-imperialist progressive nationalism

We have lots of shitposting flags that get taken seriously by faggots

I'd probably just support the Black Hebrew Israelites for laughs

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To a degree yes, but majority of people who identity as black nationalist support obama and scumbags like that, and they deserve condemnation.

give at least one example.

That really depends on the minority.

I think Black Nationalism if they wanted it would be good from a leninist perspective. Lenin was OK with ethnic nationalism for people who have been historically oppressed. The difference between Black and White nationalism is that Black nationalism is escaping oppression and is not based on racial theories, whereas white nationalism is a tool of imperialism.

I have the hardest time trying to get across this nuance to people who cry about "but why is muh white pride/nationalism bad of the blacks can have it?" all of the time. Any tips?

Well, I don't know, I'm not an expert on debate, but saying "well if white nationalism is bad, then black nationalism is!" are just using fallacious reasoning. The problem is that they are using an accident of language to compare two things that aren't the same. Black/North Korean/whatever nationalism isn't the same as white nationalism because these are based on liberation from imperialism. White nationalism on the other hand is a tool of imperialism, the "whites" in that term really means the white bourgeoisie. Hitler didn't give one single fuck about the millions of white proletarians he sent to die for industrialists. Its like Irish nationalism for example, the IRA was Irish nationalist, but they were anti-racists. Their nationalism was a tool to fight back against the British, not a tool used to convince other Irish people to go into other people's lands and kill them and take all their shit for the bourgeois.

And thats only if they want Black nationalism, not a lot of black socialists these days are black nationalists.

*aren't black nationalists

nah they are Feds

Black nationalism is a progressive force, I don’t know why no one understands thie

becouse obama and other rich black aholes

Really makes me think! Wakanda forever!