ITT: Misunderstood /ourguys/
What I mean by this is guys (or girls) who were on our side, whether they be marxists or anarchists or whatever, who have retroactively been misread and misunderstood either by liberals, the Far Right, or both
Pic very much related. A lot of libertarians and even some alt-right types think of Thompson as being one of theirs but when you actually do some research things get interesting:
Thomas Paine
George Orwell (if you’re libsoc or leftcom)
He was just a radlib for his time, not really a socialist at all
I'll give you orwell
Well, obviously, people before Marx and even more so Adam Smith were supposed to be it.
I'd say Mandela, liberals seem to think he's one of theirs, and that might've been true during the last few years of his life, but he was most definitely based in the past and even still up until his death tbh.
I guess you're right I just feel like calling Paine /ourguy/ is kind of like calling Robespierre /ourguy/. Like maybe in the sense that they were as far Left as you could go without being a utopian socialist or whatever for the time but not proper socialists really
This is a big one. The bastardization of Mandela is so fucking disgusting and it's very disheartening how well its worked. I mean even fucking Obama was a keynote speaker at that Mandela memorial thing last month. It's so sad
Yeah, Mandela was great. Such a shame what they've done to his image.
It's also sad because liberals have basically created a faux "proof" for aut-righters who do a small amount of research that the Democrats are secretly communists or whatever when they find out mandlea was /ourguy/
Did Liberals really corrupt his image or did we all just dimension jump into a world where he was a liberal?
The bastardization of Orwell in recent years has been truly astonishing.
On the one hand you have Trumpards and lolbertarians who think "SJWism" is what Orwell was trying to warn them against, but on the even more bizarre hand you have neoliberals calling Trump "Orwellian" for attacking the accuracy of the press.
He deserves it for completely cucking over later in life.
Tbh maybe both. He considered himself a marxist, but didn't really apply any of what he supposedly believed in when he was president. It could've had something to do with marxism simply losing a lot of popularity, but still. He's also often compared to Obama, Ghandi, etc by people that don't know his past or knowingly ignore it, so it could be a bit of both.
I read here claims that Michael Foucault was misinterpreted about intentionality. So what was his intersectionality and how does it differ from how it's currently used?
Orwellian just means being like what Orwell warned against so that's not really wrong.
He shouldn't have snitched, but I think it gets blown out of proportion. Probably intentionally, since Stalinists constantly try to completely and personally discredit anyone who ever criticized Stalin for any reason.
Orwell absolutely did NOT warn against people attacking the accuracy of the press. If anything, he warned against the opposite.
Sorry I am drunk. I didn't know he said anything about press specifically.
he also shouldn't have written anti-communist propaganda, been a trot wrecker, or served in India, but look at the guy, he was literally hitler
Not specific people but the 56' and 68' situations in Hungary and Czechoslovakia are horribly misunderstood by the general public. No one wanted free-market capitalism who was involved with 56' or 68'; the leaders wanted a reformed version of socialism in both cases, while under them were a broad collection of libertarian socialists, left social democrats, trots, and yes, a few opportunistic fascists. Regardless of whether or not (as a leftist) you agree or disagree with the Soviet interventions, we can all agree that they were not intervening against a populace supporting liberal capitalist policies
The CIA literally gave a bunch of guns to Horthyite exiles and sent them into Hungary, it was called Operation REDSOX. The tanks were 100% justified and necessary.
From what I'm able to find, apparently REDSOX was more or less a failure, and mostly targeted the baltic region. I'm not saying you are wrong but do you have a source saying otherwise?
Liberals can never be /ourguys/ really. Stop trying to resurrect liberalism in any form. Let it die. Bury it and if it isn't dead let it continue to decline until it is.
because cornman sent in the tanks.
This book seems to have more on the topic, anyone have a copy?
books.google.fr
Shut up stupid teenage christcom
There would be no Marx as we know today without Adam Smith
Adam Smith was more revolutionary in the grand historical scheme of things than all your petty posturing on an American neo-nazi forum will ever be
Try to make imagine how life was like before the American and French revolutions, reread the first chapter of the Communist Manifesto, and feel ashamed of posting nothing but pure foolishness day after day, please, then you may repent for your sins
Reminder that 18th-century liberals were in part revolting against a bloated clergy who leeched upon the economically productive classes of their time.
Where did Adam Smith say these things? Would be nice to read and point out to others for a good laugh
i'm surprised no ones mentioned MLK yet. right wingers always pull the "he would have been a conservative if he was still alive" despite the fact that he was a fucking civil rights activists.
And he was planning a boycott on Coca Cola and Wonder Bread shortly before he was killed.
King and the Panthers are fucking legends
Orwell was a two faced asshole. No dice.
Gramsci gets too much flack for his "cultural hedgemony" stuff when idpol liberalism is the ruling class ideology atm.
MLK was an adulterous asshole. Malcolm X is more respectable.
okay and? the point is that conservatives are appropriating him as "one of them".
Who gives a fuck holy fuck shut up and go back to Zig Forums you moralcuck faggot
But he didn't write anything that could be considered anti-communist. A lot of anti-Stalinist pieces, aye. But that's just what any honest socialist would have done.
fuck your corn and your corn propaganda.
siding with secret services was wrong, but he was still /ourguy/ in terms of ideology so i can't really hate him. same goes for trotzky.
orwell fought against fascists in spain and remained an outspoken socialist/communist to his death. he hated the soviet union and stalin though because he thought it was nothing like what marx, the paris commune and lenin envisioned (which is true to a certain extend). liberals and reactionaries in all their stupidity claiming "animal farm" to be an anti-communist allegory when it's exactly the opposite always makes me mad af.
of course you got triggered.
People using animal farm as an anticom allegory is one of the funniest and saddest appropriations of literature I've ever seen, especially when Orwell was pretty leftist
MADE BY SOCDEM GANG
he did have his uses and there's reason was against expelling him but what can you do with someone who organizes terrorists attacks for a foreign power to take over
Foucault, Gramsci, and Adorno have essentially become some Unholy Trinity.
The US wanted to weaken the USSR and 56' was a revolution against the pro-USSR establishment, so it was unaviodable that the US would do this. Still, this doesn't invalidate their communist character, because:
1. Just because someone is against the USSR doesn't mean that they aren't communist
2. There was no way that a few thousand fascists would have been able undermine a popular revolution in a country of 10 million led by the reformist sections of the communist party.
Gramsci was always a committed ML though, no reason to put him next to revisionist french academics
This
Mandela… honestly the man was just an opportunist and a stooge. He worked with Communists and was generally in favor of nationalizing things in South Africa until the end of apartheid, at which point he met with the big capitalists and pulled a complete 180 on his previous positions by privatizing everything and letting the country turn into an (even more) corrupt shithole. Do a search for "Mandela privatization" and you'll find some old articles on the topic. He sold everyone out.
anti-stalinist =! anti-communist.
You have to understand. Orwell spent the twenty years before he died mostly writings books and articles in support of socialism and attempting to point out how capitalism was no longer good or necessary. He even used WW2 as a reason to push the idea that a revolution would be necessary if the Western countries were going to survive. Meanwhile, the USSR was imprisoning and executing all the original Bolsheviks, rewriting Marxist theory to suit their own policies, and turning the international Communist movement into appendages of the Russian state.
I think Orwell's list was stupid and, moreover, unnecessary, but I can't really discard everything else he did in his life because of it. (Notably being shot in the neck and nearly dying while fighting fascism in Spain.)
...
This is true
This is not true
Lmao
Leftists don't willingly volunteer information to capitalist empires.
if you mean trotzky this
is an understatement to say the least. without him the october revolution would not have taken place or might have ended in a defeat. he did a lot of organizing work and he built the red army, which is why lenin held him in high regard till he died, despite trotzky and stalin being on each other's throat all the time. personally, i think he was a capable politician with a sharp mind, for example his 1928 analysis of the origin and function of the nazi party was straight to the point, even though he wasn't even german.
i want to know more about this, maybe it gives me some clue why trots tend to shoot against other leftists and almost inevitably become actual neoliberals/neocons after some time. can you recommend any good texts about trotzky's and orwell's connections with burger/uk secret services? i understand german, english, french and some swedish.
Robespierre was /ourguy/, though. We're talking about figures from before Marxism.
Paine is massively overrated. His influence over the American "revolution" is also greatly exaggerated by other radlibs like Chomsky.