Anarchist catalonia was bad

Tal cual

Creo que nos da para hacer un hilo de /hispanopol/ jsjsj

"On July 23, a mere two days after the workers’ victory over the Francoist uprising, a Catalan regional plenum of the CNT convened in Barcelona. Here the CNT leadership would decide what to do with the power that the workers and peasants had fought for in the streets and villages and then offered up to it. The leadership could have accepted that power and decided to use it to transform the social order in the considerable and strategic area of Spain that was now under the union’s de facto control. It could have declared libertarian communism and the end of the old political and social order. It could have created a “Barcelona Commune,” one that might have been no more permanent than the “Paris Commune” but would have been far more memorable and inspiring to later generations. A few delegates from the militant Bajo de Llobregat region (on the outskirts of the city), and the CNT militant Juan García Oliver, fervently demanded that the plenum do just this: claim the power it already possessed and proclaim libertarian communism.

But to the astonishment of these militants, the plenum’s members found themselves reluctant to take this decisive measure. Federica Montseny and the arguments of Diego Abad de Santillán (two CNT leaders) urged the plenum not to take this move, denouncing it as a “Bolshevik seizure of power.” Their oratory prevailed. Betraying the historic trust of its class, the CNT plenary instead voted to establish a coalition government along with all the other parties in Barcelona that had opposed the military rebellion. This new body, called the Anti-Fascist Militia Committee, included the bourgeois liberals and the Stalinists. In effect, the CNT leadership surrendered its own power by entering into this “People’s Front” style government. Incredibly, all these parties and unions were granted representation on the basis of parity, not in proportion to their memberships, which would have certainly provided the CNT with a commanding majority on the committee." - Bookchin

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Leftyhispanopol*

Honestly I don’t see adopting the tactics of a united front as such a terrible thing given the situation.

Hey buddy, you just blow in from Zig Forums?
Also it needs to be judged by its organization, not from the conditions that preceed it, in which case it shows that anarchism works. Suck it, OP.

Get off google translate.

Then its a failure of a decision, not the system as a whole. Stalin made a lot of fuckups but you'll see people still defending MLism, only diehard brainlet tankfags honestly believe he shit rainbows and didnu nuffin.

Ffs you realise that the situation in Spain at that time was a fucking civil war that they were losing against fascism?? Yeah so Antifa, Just divide all the forces that opposed to fascism at that time and lead us even quicker to 40 years of fascist dictatorship

Top idealism right here. But is there anything new under the sun? For a fanatical kekaturd Kekalonia will always be "number one" (yay our team!), even if it was a complete fucking joke. The doublethink required to uphold these fanboyish beliefs is so fucking obvious to everyone else.

The CNT was “very much a product of local space and the social relations within it; its unions made the barris feel powerful, and workers felt ownership over what they regarded as ‘our’ union” (Ealham, 2010: 39). But it had great difficulty in thinking the city as a whole rather than in terms of those separate territories it did control. The militant affinity groups, for example, “were incapable of converting isolated local actions into a more offensive action that could lead to a powerful transformation at regional or state level” (2010: 122). The movement’s central weakness in the run-up to the civil war, Ealham argues, “was its failure to generate an overarching institutional structure capable of coordinating the war effort and simultaneously harmonizing the activities of the myriad workers’ collectives. In political terms, the revolution was underdeveloped and inchoate…..the revolution in Barcelona failed to generate any revolutionary institution……workers’ power remained fragmented and atomised on the streets, dispersed among a multitude of comités without any coordination at regional or national level” (2010: 168; also Bookchin, 2014: Chapter 8). The reluctance of the anarchists of whatever sort to take state power for ideological reasons when it clearly had the power to do so left the state in the hands of the bourgeois republicans and their Stalinist/communist allies who bided their time until they were well-organized enough to violently crush the CNT movement in the name of republican law and order.
davidharvey.org/2015/06/listen-anarchist-by-david-harvey/

Is it true that the CNT-FAI didn't want to create a disciplined hierarchical army structure because of their anarchist beliefs?

Yes. Feels > Reals.

Spain was a popular front tho, not a united front. In any case, what Bookchin's point is, is that they had the opportunity to take power, but didn't.

It's symptomatic of a deeper problem in anarchism generally. That is, not taking power seriously.

But anarchists keep telling me that all hierarchies should be disestablished except those that are a necessity. Wouldn't having a well-trained well-disciplined army be a necessity in combating fascists?

Yes, it would be an absolute necessity. Now wait 10 minutes and some anarcho-moron will start posting about how non-hierarchical and totally voluntary army is hundred times more efficient than a regular army, even though Makhno had compulsory enlistment for his army, AND EVEN THO kekalonia fucking failed because not having one.

Feels > Reals

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Kind of. The Friends of Durruti were suggesting a temporary military council to make the militias into a more disciplined and effective fighting force

Outside of combat they could elect or recall officers who were put into leadership positions and generally made decisions by committee but during combat operations they maintained a fairly strict command structure. The volunteer militias were some of the more successful military arms of the Republic during the civil war. No idea what the other guy is talking about.

My recollection from research years ago is that they were highly effective combat formations, but were prone to being defeated in detail on a strategic level

Nigga I'm chilean. Spanish is my first lenguage.

100% correct my man.

Whats wrong with Linking a blog with quotes and sources.

Btw, tell me when anarchism has been an organised thing, this blog, and the showed examples, indicates that anarchism works in paper, not in practise.

la CNT no hizo nada malo. Viva la FAI.

Durruti fue un grande.

No, that's Marxism, anarchism dosen't even work on paper.

Translation for non english speaking comrades:

The CNT fucked up in lots of ways, speacially after Durruti's death possibly caused by other anarchists that were unsatisfied with his support for the republic and popular front and that opposed the CNT militias joining the republican army thinkg he was an infiltrated "stalinist".
Their actions in the Aragon (west of Catalonia) front were terrible, they lost every battle they fought alone as they opposed joning into the republican army, despite the Soviet material support (that was centered mostly on this front)
And I don't want to even get started with what happened in Barcelona, or the economic problems they caused.

Some sectors of the CNT had a reactionary and infantile position that damaged the war effort, and anyone can tell you this, even me considering my great grandfather was in the FAI

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these fools needed Lenin

Do you have constant headaches from constantly arguing with both ☭TANKIE☭s AND reactionaries all day?

Or in other words, they did what no one should do when fighting against west armed fascists.

ANARCHO-HOMO GANG

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if nothing else, should there be another united front situation we'll know from the disaster that was Spain how to organise and fight properly.

Si no fuera por las Jornadas de Mayo, donde de repente a la República se le da por destruír la revolución, llevando a una disminución de la productividad tanto en cataluña como en todas las regiones donde se había establecido la revolución social.

Eso y que a partir de ahí era un parque infantil si eras un político estalinista, con tus juegos de asesinar a la POUM y anarquistas.

reminder the PCE in the end got everything they wanted and still lost, maybe they didn't have all the answers

No shit retards. I knew a guy in Honduras that moved there after his parents were killed because they refused to collectivise their tiny farm.

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noice

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This.

I can imagine all these well-off pasty nerds getting off their butts to go fight against fascists in some country they've never thought about before, finding some old poor indigenous farmers through their indigenous son also resisting the fascists, and then demanding those farmers to collectivize the farm for these nerds because of "squatter's rights".

Despite all of this, respect for all the Spanish revolutionaries and anti fascist fighter. It was a valiant attempt, however when pined against west backed and armed fascist army, one should fight and act using his brain and not his hearth.

in my recollection farmers had the option of working their lands without hired labour, but they were pressured to join the collectives, also if you are a ☭TANKIE☭ than you should know that the bolshevicks did exactly what you just described (it was either steal some grain or let everyone in the cities starve) of you are a bating Zig Forumsack then you are ideological enemy and no one one on this board cares what you think

Is that private or personal property?

personal property, the no hired work rule defacto eliminated the usefullness of having anymore land than that the which is needed to support you

Are you a Marxist or an anarchist?

used to be anarchist but over time it seemed unrealisitc, I still sympathize with the ideology and groups like the cnt-fai, i haven't really read enough marx to call myself a marxist, but i also sympathize with marxist leninism, I really need to read more about both

Agreee

everybody who diasgrees say cheese
because I will cheese on your face biatch