What exactly is the marxist stance on the pet industry? Is it not morally deplorable to select the few we want and kill off the non-picked ones that can not live in nature anymore, and breeding them to abominations which have difficulty living? Can we in an ethical way own pets?
What exactly is the marxist stance on the pet industry...
Ayden Carter
Joseph Bailey
...
Zachary Russell
Levi Wright
Lmao. they are fucking animals. Some of them are cute, some of them are tasty, some of them are both. Who gives a fuck boy. I'm hungry
Landon Garcia
They're animals. They're not like us, genuinely, and the only way they become more like us is through us selectively breeding them to be that way.
Joshua Myers
Private ownership of animals, like all other things, is to be abolished. Marxism does not prescribe anything else because Marxism, the body of theory of both communism and the critique of capitalism, is unconcerned with ethics or morality. However, Marxism shows that the abolition of the communist mode of production would liberate human subjectivity towards animals in its society a great deal since it would be greatly liberated from a lot of things the law of value necessitates in our treatment of them.
Anthony Roberts
Bruh we are talking about pets. You wouldn't eat your fucking dog would you?
Eli Walker
Pugs are a crime against nature.
Andrew Howard
would you say there is some sort of fundamental difference between a dog and a pig?
Ryder Jackson
I'm korean lmao
Andrew Johnson
Personal property is not private property
Sebastian Ramirez
doggo barks :DDD, pig oinks :DDDDDD
Justin Baker
Time to hit the books, user.
Ryan Gutierrez
Read some marx
Michael Murphy
fucking lmao
Blake Foster
A cow which, just like any other machine,, is a means of production which, under the capitalist mode of production, is held privately: the rate at which the cow's milk and meat can be extracted from it through hours of labour time (e.g. it costs X amounts of human labour to give them food and grow to a size where it can be slain, skinned, butchered, etc. and for the sold product thereof to have a market value corresponding to the amount of labour time it cost). Labour-power is employed to work these animal means of production and produce commodities made out of them (and this precludes the rest of the labour time required to sell the commodity in its final place of purchase; a marketplace, a supermarket, etc., which requires purchasing service labour for logistics; transport, keeping it fresh, stocking, etc.). The state of the cow (which breed it is, how it is fed, etc.) and how it is worked determines how the SNLT is disciplined.
William Lee
Only human labour creates value.
Animals cannot create value.
Animal meats and dairy products, or the living cow itself, do not create value.
I dunno why youre sperging out.
Isaac Myers
Oh look a Rafiq imitator. How cute.
James Morris
Nothing I said contradicts this. If you weren't so dense, you'd realize that there is not a single instant where an animal product has attained status as commodity without being worked by humans, and these animals not in the first place being owned privately. Cow milk does not arrive to you on the market through a cow's own effort and volition; the cow must be captured by human labour, put in a farm by human labour, fed by human labour using food of which the price is determined by human labour, bred and grown by human labour on plots of land held privately, milked by human labour, bottled by human labour, et cetera.
Read. A. Book.
Nathan Gomez
Dude you are just confirming and repeating my litterally 4 word long simple sentence while sperging the fuck out and saying I don't understand.
YOURE AGREEING WITH ME
YOU LITTERALLY REPEAT ME
BUT SOMEHOW I AM WRONG?
Jaxson Adams
I'm not agreeing with you at all. You said:
Like a complete mongoloid in response to
Because this made you believe, for whatever reason, that I believe there is no distinction between private and personal property (something in my post must have suggested that, even though I was clear when I said:
Wyatt Russell
Why do you not also consider humans to be machines.
Adrian Nguyen
No actually the subject of this thread is pets, not industrial levels of cow farming.
From the OP:
I responded that personal per ownership is not private ownership, which you misinterpreted from the OP since they talk about how breeding pets is a bit unethical.
Except i said
clearly differentiating them as means of production from pets, which are personal property
The source of this "disagreement" is you misreading my comment and projecting the opponent you wish to see upon everyone else. Take a chill pill or something.
Carter Morgan
Both ethics and economics are fields that talk about society. Society is made of persons. Non-humans are not considered persons by society (this is almost a tautology).
Therefore animals economically can be capital but can't be workers, and are not moral subjects (the only thing that keeps people from treating some animals as objects is their individual recognition of them as persons). Owning pets might one day become immoral, but only because of cultural changes, not economic ones.
Personally I don't have much against an anthropocentric morality.
I wouldn't use the word "machine" since they aren't engendered but they surely aren't persons, while humans are.
James Taylor
Because under capitalist society, humans are subject to the privileges of bourgeois right and only sell their labour-power, not their labour. If they were to sell their labour, they would be chattel slaves, which they worldwide no longer are since the bourgeois revolutions, though they once, in other modes of production, were essentially machines.
Which I explicitly acknowledge when I clarify the specifics of the private form of ownership of animals, which is not a form of pet ownership, but a private form of ownership; because it exists only to valorize labour-power into commodities.
From this I was motivated to mention that Marxism does not seek to make a single ethical or moral argument whatsoever. On this note, I could have mentioned that Marxism does show that economic determinism often decides the nature of animal ethics in capitalist society.
Why would you, if you did not before assume I did not know it? What part of any of my posts has indicated that I believe that pet ownership is similar to private ownership, when I specified the private ownership of animals?
And this isn't even a true statement at all: plenty of people own cows as personal companions rather than as privately-held means of production.
Gabriel Hernandez
what do animals have to do with marxism? it's like all these vegans i've seen on yt now claiming it's marxist to be vegan. i don't get this shit at all.
Thomas Clark
Animals are not human and therefore do not have rights, they can be slaughtered. However they shouldn't unnecessary suffer, I don't delude myself into thinking I'm some higher species, I am just like them but smart I have meat eating teeth,benefit from eating them and understand that animals if given the chance would eat us just the same. Morality be dammed lions don't care. Only humans are workers and therefore only we have rights. Aliens can join our Space Communism if they have sufficient intelligence and aren't predisposed to be genocidal or a threat to us but if there's an Alien cow you bet i'm gonna dig my teeth into it, atleast until meat grown in laboratories happen.
Pets benefit from us owning them. Nature is fucking vicious and dosn't give the slightest shit, a hungry lion is going to eat the shit out of you no matter how many lions you saved form poachers. I guarantee you, your pet dog sure as fuck prefers living in a sheltered climate controlled house and getting to see the occasional dog while being given free food and water then sleeping in the dirt and rain and snow covered in ticks,infected wounds and then having their guts ripped out out of them only to slowly and painfully bleed out by another animal.
Blake Baker
Private ownership of pets is a public menace and a health risk to society at large.
Adrian Young
Humans hold moral agency, animals do not.
Jacob Cook
Everyone in this thread should just read FinBol.
Brandon Morales
humans are not hive-mind. There are great people, there are evil people, but majority are brainlets.
Connor Russell
That is not relevant whether humans withhold moral agency or not.
Kevin Morales
Why don't we all just eat goats then? Chicken is all well and good but sometimes you want red meat. Pigs are smart, cows are pretty nice, but goats are just plain assholes and they got the freaky eyes.