Mfw my country is under attack by 8 foreign powers, and is being internally ravaged by sabotage from trots, anarkiddies...
yeah but he was like authoritarian and bureaucratic man we should unquestioningly believe nazi propaganda about the USSR because France and other Western powers didn't let Stalin send enough gibs to Spain *eats some used tampons from a landfill freegan style*
Stalin wanted Malenkov as replacement for Yezhov, not Beria.
Lol I thought OP was actually referring to his home country today.
Yagoda & Ezhov, not Ezhov & Beria
Tbh I ironically think Krushchev was more competent than stalin at doing basically the same thing. Like outside of wartime what was the fuckin purpose of having party members shot when he could literally just fire them like in every other political party in a functioning republic? Did stalin legitimately think fucking bukharin was so charismatic that he would rally all the peasants into another civil war or a coup? Don't even get me started on ⛏️rotsky, I wouldn't be surprised if 80+% of the entire Union population literally didn't know who he was. In the majority of cases those executed in the purge (not to imply all or even most were actually executed) would have just faded into complete obscurity writing shitty unread pamphlets for the rest of their lives (just like ⛏️rotsky was doing before he got formally expelled).
However I can't honestly critique Stalin's industrial strategy even though it's the most low hanging possible fruit, simply because I cannot think of any other way the Union could have industrialized rapidly enough to win the war. Like it really was just a choice between Gulags and grain requisition or actual fucking genocide (not just muh kulaks but the entire Slavic population for gods sake) and the collapse of the country. And I mean there really actually WASN'T a fucking alternative and I've yet to see anarchists, liberals, reactionaries or even stalin-critical MLs point out another option that would allow the Union to make it past '42.
Regarding the Great Purge, a number I've seen thrown around a lot is 681000 something, but this number right here, is it the number of people executed just in the Great Purge or all people executed during Stalin's government?
I honestly don't know but most of the time I see a number in the tens of thousands at most, I would be pretty suspicious of a quantity that large. Maybe check /marx/, Ismael is actually stalin-critical but even he doesn't have much bad to say about him
However hundreds of thousands might make sense if you counted every person removed from public positions in the whole union during Stalin's career (which is obviously pretty unfair since the majority of those probably weren't on Stalin's orders or even signed off by him, or could be officials and managers who were genuinely incompetent/corrupted).
Sound like China.
I spent like ten minutes thinking the OP was a Chinese xiposter and I was really surprised that ⛏️rotskyists were such a problem in the CPC
Is Zig Forums even legal or known in China?
No.
That's a shame. I'd honestly love to have some input from Chinese comrades around here, the best we ever get is some chavistas who identify socialism more with welfare programs and being pissed at America than actual socialist states
lol
You know the chinks have a name for western "socalists" right?
I mean 680000 is a much, much lower estimate than what liberals or conservatives might say.
Every argument with liberals about Stalin turns into Jack Nicholson's speech from A Few Good Men. Stalin may have been a cunt but did someone else have the resolve to rapidly industrialize the country at any cost? Would someone else have shot deserters and relocated questionably loyal populations from the front lines? It's easy to criticize but the USSR's defeat of the Nazis was the most important event of the 20th century.
Menshevik would, anyone else would.
I mean, capitalists invented industrialization, you think it's goddamn hard?
同志?
Quickly enough to beat the Axis? It was a close run thing as it was.
You realize industrialization happened DURING WW2 too right?
In fact, a part of why it went so fast is due to lend lease, help from the Allies, all those fuel, tires and even factory built from lend-lease.
If the mensheviks win and open alliance with the brits, americans from the start and settle down Special Economic Zones, Russia would be US-tier by now.
The western allies wouldn't suddenly be supportive of a socialist Russia if the mensheviks were in charge, nor would there have been anyone to send lend lease to if the Soviets didn't survive Barbarossa.
Oh please they WERE supportive of Russia even when the bolsheviks were in charges.
Remember all those fordist assembly line technology that was sent by the states to Stalin?
Or you think Stalin re-invented that shit?
Nope, capitalism is blind in profit seeking.
They had a strange way of showing it. Why didn't they form an alliance before the war?
The bolsheviks did receive money from Wall Street before the war, and Germany did send Lenin packing with gold.
But before the war, they are a small party, thus no need for them.
I'm talking about immediately before WW2 , when a Franco-British-Soviet alliance could have stopped Germany from expanding in the first place. Instead the western allies stubbornly refused to form a united front and only sent significant aid after the tide had turned. It's almost like they wanted Germany to have a go at the USSR so they could bleed each other to death.
Perhaps because Stalin was supportive/passive of Hitler. This is never stressed enough, the reason of the initial success of Barbarossa, aside from German quickness is also due to the fact Stalin didn't expect it.
In fact, if Hitler didn't attack him, perhaps they would have literally divided Eastern Europe and the current world would be 3 polars, Anglo vs Nazi Europe vs USSRasia, provided USSR can hold economically.
This dumb meme needs to fucking end. Signing a non-aggression pact so the industrialized rape machine to the west doesn't immediately steamroll you is NOT an act of support/passivity.
A bunch of pacts doesn't mean he's aggressive against Hitler either.
Face it, Stalin got cold feet from him, and only due to Zhukov that he got his shit together.
People really undersell Zhukov, but Zhukov is pivotal in getting Stalin back on his feet.
Why be aggressive against hitler when you're not in a position to do so and the other powers have already cucked against him? You think this is dragonball Z or some shit? That rage is enough to overpower a foe?
Also Stalin DID expect an attack from hitler, he just didn't expect it SO SOON. Stalin explicitly stated that the USSR would need to industrialize within 10 years or less, lest they be invaded and defeated.
I dunno, to earn favor from Britain/France/America.
inb4 Stalin didn't care
Sure cucked his ass out for Britain regarding Greece post-war
So Stalin didn't expect, because quickness is how Hitler operates. He pacified 3 fucking countries in less than 1 year, 39-40.
Why would the USSR try to gain the favor from countries that already rebutted his attempts at diplomacy? He offered to help in a combined effort on germany, even willing to supply most of the weaponry/men but Britain/france refused.
Yes and one would expect that there'd be some pause before attacking a juggernaut like the USSR. Normally it's the lulls where you should be the most cautious.
Because why not? Also, Stalin has no mean to transport men and weaponry to Britain and France, so his promise cannot be fulfilled.
What Stalin can realistically do is strengthening the border and ready for war, and for this, he didn't do. In fact, he left his butt wide open for Hitler and Hitler captured a shitton of weapons he left in the border.
The pause is the molotov-ribbentrov pact.
This depiction of Chavistas is really unfair
What have you done that is a bigger step towards communism than them?
Why do you use some retarded strawmen of their ideas?
This is why most of the western left is terrible TBH
The pause is the molotov-ribbentrov pact.
Are you trying to be clever you fucking retard? The fact that the pact was broken SO SOON was what made Stalin panic, that "pause" was supposed to be much longer than it actually lasted. That was my entire point. Retard.
They were to attack from the east you fucking moron. Britain and france from the west.
Stalin was also dealing with Japan near Siberia so most of the red army was drawn there:
thediplomat.com
Read this article, it literally refutes all your points.
polite reminder that Stalin offered to create an anti-Nazi front with the "Allies" in 1939 but porkies would rather let millions die than side with communists against fascists
And to add D-Day was postponed hoping that USSR fell, allies were trying to destroy Russia
isn't this day to day life in any socialist country
~680,000 is the number of people shot in 1937 and 1938. This number comes from Russian state archives. The total number of arrests in this period was around 1.5million.
table is from Getty and Naumov's The Road to Terror
...
Total number of "executed" (according to Zemskov) between 1921 and 1953 (including 198 in first 6 months of 1953 not listed in picrelated) is 799 455.
"Execution" means being sentenced to "highest measure of social defence" which wasn't always carried out, nor meant necessarily mean actual execution. I.e. actual numbers are a bit lower (provided Zemskov didn't mess with anything).
IIRC, Getty essentially falsified some key documents there (like NKVD order 00447, by making "quota" mean minimum numbers, rather than maximum - as it was explicitly stated twice in the actual order).
What's suppose to be the difference between "counterrevolutionary crimes" and "antisoviet agitation"?
"Counter-revolutionary" means anti-social. It's not propaganda, but stuff that Whites would be doing.
For example, most of organized crime would be deemed counter-revolutionary. Same goes for killing state officials or robbing/deliberately destroying state property on a grand scale.
Wrong, Anglo and Yank porkies literally created Nazi Germany, they didn't "let it happen."
Thanks for the info man and another thing (sorry for so much spoonfeeding) but if someone was sent to a gulag and I know supposedly the maximum sentence was 10 years of hard labor but people in a gulag, could they still be executed? Were any exceptions made? Also are their any archives which show how many people died in gulags?
The GULAGs were very pleasant.
espressostalinist.com
source
not a good source
read the sources it cites dumbfuck
And one final thing (a lot of questions I know) but do you know if for the wartime years it counts soviet soldiers shot for deserting and/or any military treason? If anyone else also happens to know, please let me know.