It depends on what you mean by centrism. The only kind of "centrists" I dislike more than rightists are the ones who think doing nothing and supporting the status quo puts them on some kind of moral high ground. The type that genuinely believes in shit like horseshoe theory. Those people are some of the only that I find genuinely reprehensible because they either reject or refuse to develop their beliefs. Still though, I would rather be around them than fucking nazis.
Depends on who you're talking to. I've seen some compelling arguments for both social democracy and social liberalism as centrist positions, and both have solid philosophical bases.
Do you expect anything better from this board?
Brandon Jackson
I wasn't being sarcastic, I was making an observation. I realized that far right movements actually have genuine worker factions. Sure they get betrayed, yes, they might die in wars, but even when crippled by their own class collaborationism, the far right shows concerns and makes some effort to improve their lot. "Enlightened centrists", on the other hand, shit on the workers and get them killed in wars, while treating the poor with absolute contempt, and tell them to shut the fuck up and fall in line.
Is turd positionism, so it's "philosophical" base is trash.
Carson Edwards
That point and debate not withstanding, if even Trump voters are to the Left of Euro right-winger parties on the issue of immigration they typically want no immigration of any sort then it doesn't make sense to say that the American people are the most reactionary and racist on the planet as argued in this post:
If American liberals are also racist, despite giving lip-service to the notion that difference of outcome between groups can only be explained by racism (ex. I have literally seen an American liberal say that the difference between black and white abortion rates can be explained by "racism") then racism doesn't explain why Trump won. Racism is thus a constant on both sides of the election and doesn't really explain things either way.
If Clinton had won, some radical leftist or reactionary could ascribe it to "racism" in some manner but the facts are someone is going to win the election and candidates chosen by the imperialists are the only ones who get to play. We also know that poor economic performance and economic crises empower the opposition party frequently in American political history. So, Trump being voted into office wouldn't be a departure from the historical norm in the same way Obama getting into office wasn't a departure. I do consider Trump voters to be more reactionary than the average American but at the same time the average American is neither a committed Trump supporter or right-wing. Close to half of eligible Americans didn't even fucking vote.
Btw European electoral systems are more representative of the electorate than American ones, so by that logic, if Europeans wanted anything different from neoliberalism or right-wing populism–then we'd know it.
Noah Moore
The far right are not concerned with even the white working class as a whole; this is exactly the lie they are trying to push on the white working class. They want the whites that submit to their idea of what it is to be white, and typically what it means to submit to the nation-state and capital as well. Disagree and you're only a few steps above the non-whites. They only care about the working class so far as the working class is working for them. If you think, in pursuit of their ideology, they wouldn't butcher the working class at a level equal to or higher than liberals you are mistaken. The only difference is they haven't had the chance on the level that liberals have. Perhaps me not being white is the driving factor in my disappointment at seeing supposed leftists admit that they feel fonder for fascists, Not Socialists and white nationalists than centrist liberals, but then I don't feel bad about preferring the theory/policy of people who don't want to either have me killed or have me forcibly removed from the land my family has inhabited for generations. Obviously I disagree with it as well, but disagreeing with a political philosophy is not the same as denying that it exists, which is what the person I was replying to was doing. Because this is the internet I can't be certain, but I can almost promise you that far more educated and politically active thinkers than you or me helped develop their theory.
Juan Nguyen
That's because there is nothing complicated about opposing them, especially when they wear their convictions on their sleeve, and actually have coherent beliefs and goals. "Centrists" are fucking snakes that don't believe anything, up to their eyeballs in hypocrisy they call "nuance", infuriatingly patronizing, while having no roots in reality, and are bigger gravediggers of socialism than fascists ever were or ever hope to be.
Their premises are false so all their theorizing amounts to nothing. It's called GIGO.
Why are you trying to run damage control for your imperialist, fascist state filled with scum?
Lol.
Colton Anderson
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Owen Perry
The ruling ideology of any society is the ideology of the ruling class (Or the ideology they permit).
Wow it's almost like I never said that. However, your country is the "most" imperialist. If you want to use a childish metric.
Aiden Turner
The type I hate the most are the ones that act like they are above ideology and that they come to all their positions based on facts and logic while really all they've done is internalize the ruling ideology to their core. Bonus points if they claim centrism is just a methodology not a set of beliefs. Like okay buddy, so anyone from ML to fascist can be a centrist if then by that standard if they're rational enough.
Parker Campbell
Ironically, the latter sentiment could just as easily belong to a right-winger fearing "anuddah shoah."
