Let's just talk about movies, ok? No need for them to be leftist. What did you see recently? What is the movie you'd take on a desert Island with you? Who's the director you are most obsessed with at the moment? What do you think of the current state of cinema in the world and in your country? Got any hot take? Keep meme contrarianism on /tv/ pls, if you have a hot take keep it moderate and explain yourself well. I want a cozy thread
Rewatched first pic recently. Antonioni is one of my favorites, but I seriously don't know how to feel about this one. He went a little overboard with muh conterculture shit imho. I feel like he ended up romanticizing it (which he never did before) and trying to be hip. His austere charm is totally lost on this one and the masterful and alienating composition just became predictable and a bad parody.
I just want to remind you that you get discriminated in every art form save for a couple of artist here and there and it should be the same with cinema. European cinema was always superior and cinema culture was always better in europe: Film school, the term "arthouse", auteur fetishism, discrimnation for foreign languages, studio system, star system, meme avant-gard, blockbusters ecc. Are all your creation. While some of your guys are genius you still at fault for creating a lot shit that ruined cinema. I know that in your McWasteland faux elitism is the only way to defend yourself from philistines who think that their opinion matters no matter how stupid, but keep it moderate here.
Bonus: Guess what movie screen in op is talking about
I admit that the japanese new wave is the only movement that I didn't dig deep enough. It's really underrated compared to many other movements. Compared to the french new wave the jap one doesn't get much attention even if the japs where much more experimental in their approach. Imho the jap one was much less choesive, much more ill-disciplined, wasn't tied to a political movement and focused much more on shock and provocation. These are not bad things, but that's the only explanation I can give myself when comparing the popularity of french compared to japs. What do you think?
Well, I agree that all of this is true (I doubt any of the directors would have considered themselves part of any movement; Seijun Suzuki always said that all he wanted to do was entertain people, for example). That said, I suspect the fact that it's lesser known in the West is more because Japanese cinema of any style or period has always been lesser known here (even though it's by far the best known internationally of any Asian cinematic tradition). Really, even your average "film buff" is probably really only familiar with Kurosawa, Ozu, and MAYBE Mizoguchi (and anime I guess, but that can't really be compared). I'm reminded of a poll of Japanese film critics that ranked the top Japanese films of all time; it was totally different from any such list Western critics would make, which I think demonstrates that we just don't have a good understanding of their film history. Here's the poll if you're interested: letterboxd.com/mongoosecmr/list/kinema-junpos-greatest-japanese-films/ On the other hand, French cinema (again, regardless of period) is almost certainly the best known tradition in the West; I think only Italy is on the same level of prestige here. So it's no wonder the most important movement in French film history is also the most important movement in film history in general. Oh, one more thing: some (maybe most?) of the Japanese New Wave directors worked within the mainstream Japanese studio system, which meant their films didn't get shown at festivals (which is the only place Westerners would see Japanese films).
Isaac Sullivan
Thank you for the poll. Yeah, japs had also a lot of funding from big studios. It's funny how the jap new wave managed not only to last slightly more compared to others and its authors stay more consistent with their vison and subversion compared to other movements financed by studios or state. I mean the german new wave and the american new wave sold out pretty fast and their autheurs are inconsistent at best to total fucking hacks. Many Japs where much more prolific and didn't end up doing straight to dvd shit. I mean some of them even abbandoned filmaking as soon as the studios stopped letting them do whatever the fuck they were wanted. I think while most of the japanese new wave was bankrolled by porkies there was less interference from suits (not sure about it tbh, like I said I'm everything but an expert on this movement) and the movie industry was more focused on size of a quantity than scope. It's really sad that these days there's hardly anything like it. I know about the Greek Weird Wave which has some interesting shit in it but with the exception of that I can't think of nothing. I know Italy (where I live) ain't doing shit except for a couple of old school authors and some new guys (fuck Sorrentino tho, he's what the director equivalent of what pizza hut is to italian cusine), france is still coping with the dardenne aestethic, ex warsaw has some interesting stuff here and there, americans are mostly doing muh indie hipster shit, middle east did some good and interesting movies but nothing really "important" came out of it… Is there some notable new movement around that I'm not aware of?
I have no idea. The only recent film I've seen that really felt fresh was Toni Erdmann. Granted, I haven't watched many recent films.
Lincoln Rodriguez
I really liked American Psycho. Mile 22 is the worst pile of dogshit I've ever seen in my life, and this is all I have to add to this discussion. It's amazingly terrible. Anyone who hasn't seen it should watch it.
Christian Jones
Have you seen Oliver Stone's Wall Street and Scorsese's The Wolf of Wall Street? The first one is much more prechy, serious and explicit critique then american psycho, while the second beside being the definitive wall street movie is also even more of a satire while also being much more realistic
Jonathan Sanders
I’ve got a real soft spot for modern day American independent films tbh. Especially ones that manage to craft clever and impactful genre films with woefully small budgets, I find it impressive. Recently watched Coherence and The Invitation, and I find myself inspired by their use of limited location/setting and actors.
Meh. Kind of the opposite for me fam, really getting tired and angry at American indipentent movies. They kind of all feel and look the same to me. One of the biggest thing I hate about cinema in the current day is how balkanized and self serving it is. Everything belongs to a category targeted for a specific audience and there is nothing earth shattering or universal. I really don't get how, digital gave the power to everyone and these people instead created their own sphere and didn't threaten the studio system in anyway. I don't feel like these people actually needed to be filmakers contrary to the greats of the past, they just want because they can.
Network is a great movie and really relevant too. Try pic related too, the most underrated Scorsese movie. While the subject matter has more to do with the american obsession with media than media manipulation it's still relevant like network. The movie has a much more comic tone while also being one of scorsese's bleakest. It's cringe comedy before cringe comedy was a thing.
Does anyone have a problem with horror movies? As in I don't find them scary nor tense. Idk the fuck it is about it, I can recognize a well made movie but I can't actually get scared by it. I take The Exorcist as an example, it wasn't scary to me nor tense nor shocking. At the same time sorcerer by the same director got me sweating and got my heart running like a nigger.
I think horror ages like shit and the whole expectation the genre and reputation brings does harm the movie.
Yeah but I don’t exactly think that’s much worse than the classic studio film thinking that focused on just trying to please everyone and not offend the sensibilities of the general audience. As someone who has a pretty wide taste, I like the variety. I don’t think a concentrated effort to break the studio system is really gonna occur under capitalism, the studios just have to majorly fail on their own, and some other cinema movement will fill the power gap. And what do you mean by American independent cinema always being the same? Explain some major cliches in form and content you’ve noticed
Luis Brooks
I actually find most horror films just entertaining and maybe somewhat creepy, I don’t watch em to get scared. Kinda think it lets me appreciate them better.
Owen Davis
Fellini's realism is an interesting contrast/complementary to soviet soc.real
Eli Butler
zabriskie point is kino as fuck and leftist too
its actually one of my favs
some kinos:
Deep Red Buffalo '66 Stalker The Holy Mountain Geographer Drank His Globe Away Leviafan Wild at Heart Barry Lyndon Sparticus Upstream Color Gas-s-s-s Libera, amore mio! A Scanner Darkly Fellini Satyricon
I think people in america try to hard to be the new cassavettes. Shoot digitally or 16mm, more focus on the actors instead of compositions, socially conscious althrough in a dishonest way in my opinion or self referential slightly ironic genre movies. These are vague as fuck, I know, but beside this I don't think I can exaclty put my hands on it yet. I think the biggest grip I have with them is that they are exactly what I'd expect and don't do nothing that europe didn't do better at least 10 years before. I feel they are souless tbh.
Man idk. I feel like zabriskie point is really the worst antonioni movie.
Jonathan Garcia
Red Western is a good start.
Brandon Hill
twenty-seventh post best post
Colton Scott
To add to this: I think the dishonesty comes from a sort of self limitation these guys impose on themself with the populist attitude of these movies. They are the kind of like Vice magazine. There isn't any passion or suffering
Landon Myers
Hm I agree on what I’ve taken to call “The Curse of Cassavettes”, with it’s grip on modern ‘art’ cinema. Cassavettes used techniques like improvisation, and camerawork focused on actors and emotions for both his filmmaking ideological reasons yes, but mainly also financial reasons. His techniques were great for making low budget films that were still super impactful. But yet with a lot of modern cinema that does this, you’ll see like several million dollar pictures that use his techniques, and it begs to question the reason to even have such a budget, other than to get name actors. It does come across as insincere to the technique. I also think it’s then odd to complain of Cassavettes influence, and then ask for more ‘passion and suffering’. That kind of sentimentalism, is to an extent, at home with what you criticize of American cinema(aside from the college student humor self ironic genre films), I’d much prefer more Lanthimos’ types around. I want more detached and cold analysis of suffering, to an extent. And frankly I find Lanthimos films have only gotten more effective since he’s come over to American English language work, but that’s probably just the language barrier being broken for me.
Asher Jenkins
Oh but I agree with you. The "passion and suffering" thing is not be intended in a cassavettes way, more in the sense of important and heavy questions. I think our deeply cynical culture rejects this kind of stuff these days in favour of less heavy questions. It's not about sentimentalism either. I'm ok with Cassavettes, but who says that an indipendent movie or one interested in intimacy cannot become universal and more "solemn"? Lanthimos does ask really big questions and evokes important feelings despite the detachment it's still human. I would never really ever call him cold, not in a bad way. He's interested in something and it's thought provoking, while the many other are really opportunist, dishonest or cheap. I think the passion and suffering statment is more about a way I relate to the movie. You know McQueen? The guy who did 12 years a slave? Take away 12 years which i think it's kind of shit, ever seen Hunger? It's the first movie that came into mind when I read that.
Anyone else is really bothered by the massive amount of film "essay" you find on youtube? Some of them are good, others are just an excuse to showcase slick editing and treat basic and common shit or superficial themes as some sort of revelation.
James Thomas
I don’t see ‘cold’ as a bad thing at all. Kubrick after all, was one of the most cold filmmakers I can think of. I’m just not quite sure one can actually ascertain ‘dishonesty’ and ‘opportunism’ in cinema or art, we can’t tell if a reactionary, bourgeois, or straight pretentious(rarely use that word) artist just truly believes in his ridiculousness, or is just grifting, and frankly trying to differentiate between the two seems pointless. I appreciate a film nonetheless if I think the director/producer/writer is sincere about his role and position espoused in the film, and I don’t think filmmaking can be compared to ones speaking voice in how easy that would be to spot anyways. And yeah McQueen is definitely an example of the excellence of modern western independent film(I’d draw more comparisons in British and American films that between a lot of euro film anyways, they can both understand each other and transition between making films in each other’s country easier).
Gavin Perez
just finished making this, based it off of some made previously
