What if the superstructure reaches a point of no-return, where people are turned to such egoists that sacrificing their immediate hedonic purposes for a "better tomorrow for the group" is totally inconceivable and comical to them; i.e proles unconsciously become stirnerists, or worse, liberals.
At least in the past they still had a sense of duty to their nation/God/race/etc that could be replaced with the emancipation of the working class. But they are very close to seeing everything as a spook except their own whims and immediate satisfactions in this life.
also protip, if proles spontaneously became stirnerites they would immediately revolt
The State rests on the — slavery of labor. If labor becomes free. the State is lost.
Wyatt Green
to what end? stirner thought communism was a goofy spook. The proles are liberal at the moment and they see nothing worth pursuing except their own immediate satisfaction. Giving them a higher ideal will soon be impossible.
Ryder Cook
have you even read Stirner or at least what I have posted? Stirner might have thought the ideology of communism to be a spook, but he obviously believed that seizing the means of production and abolishing wage labor is in workers' self-interest
Benjamin Reed
the decadent lifestyle they strive for is already out of reach and unsustainable. this will worsen as the climate deteriorates. give them twenty years
Carson Sanchez
this would make them more selfish, not less, they would be the first to eat their kids in times of trouble, not the last.
m8
John Thomas
you sound like a fucking idealist m8.
are you sure you're in the right board? the point is that workers /will/ inevitably revolt, because of material conditions not some idealistic "better tomorrow" bullcrap. proles wanting material comforts is not a bad thing, it should be exploited. when the glaring abyss between what is promised by capitalist ideology and what they actually get becomes impossible to hide, they will become radicalized. the Bolsheviks came to power with the slogan of PEACE LAND BREAD not "better tomorrow for the group" or whatever.
these are not good things
the working class will emancipate itself because it wants better material conditions not because it believes in some emancipation fairy
in general, where are the proofs that proles are more "hedonist" and "liberalized" today than russian peasants in 1917? your prole-shaming is elitist and disgusting
Ian Brown
well for one ads like this would be incoherent to them, and once they realized what it meant they'd burn it down along with the building it was attached to
No he didn’t. t. Stirner He basically thinks that you can pursue whatever ideology you want so long as you do it for the satisfaction of your ego and not because you believe it has inherent value.
Noah Cruz
The fact is that consumerism is only an effective sedative for the masses while it is able to actually deliver on its promises, and its ability to do that cannot persist indefinitely. You’re basically making the same mistake Adorno made, but replacing culture with consumption. Whatever your chosen aspect of the superstructure is that you believe us primarily responsible for perpetuating capitalism, it can only function as long as the base supports it. However capitalism is naturally self destructive, and while social democracy and Keynesianism put it on life support throughout the 20th century, it’s tendency to undo these reforms gave rise to neoliberalism, the 2008 collapse, and an new imminent crisis that will probably hit in the next couple years. In other words, it’s not a question of the superstructure or people being too doped up by consumption to act, it’s a question of whether or not the base can sustain itself. Between automation, market saturation, limited resources, and cannibalizing the consumer (middle) class, I’m not convinced of capitalism’s ability to sustain itself for long.
You've got it all wrong. Liberalism (for proles) requires extreme self sacrifice and is hardly hedonistic. I would argue that peak liberalism involves being an entrepreneur of the self, which is a horrific way to live involving little hedonism and much sacrifice. If proles overnight became egoists the revolution would happen tomorrow. Socialist revolution is the ultimate manifestation of the rational self-interest of the working class.
Aaron Perry
well here is the actual answer rather than a random picture from your Zig Forums recreational outrage folder
the average peasant in tsarist russia didn't have loftier aspirations than feeding his family and making sure the kulak next door stops hoarding bread. porky tried to give him the "ideals" of Tsar, Faith and Country but those shattered as soon as times got hungry if you look at early Bolshevik agitation it is very materialistic. it promised peace, bread and electricity, and vast masses of workers and peasants abandoned faith in tsar and god to go along with it. Soviet propaganda got a bit idealistic way later on, when people were already happy and well-fed and had the luxury to dream and think.
the Spectacle is just a more insidious and totalitarian version of the "traditional values" that you bemoan, and as before it will fall before material necessity
Hunter Torres
Egoism is the foundation of class conflict. It's what motivates the exploiting classes to exploit others, and the exploited to resist and overthrow the system. Class struggle of the working classes isn't based on some vague utopian promise of a "new society", but the desire to alleviate their material conditions, based on the real conditions prevalent today. When proles explicitly embrace liberalism, it's either because they're still satisfied with their lot in life, or they've ascended to the ranks of the (petty) bourgeois or labor aristocracy, both of which directly profit from the status quo. Again, it's self-interest that drives this.
The lastly, the "sense of duty" you mention was (and still is) in reality a carefully crafted ideological facade whose purpose is to make people act against their own class interests. As communist we must ruthlessly demolish the ideological foundations of god, race & nation. For they exist only to perpetuate the current state of things.
Consumerism must do an Althusser and strangle its spouse (capitalism) if it is to grow and overcome itself in the process of becoming more than itself. There is a radical aspect to consumerism - namely, the drive to do, be and experience more - which can be weaponised not just for revolutionary purposes but for the very march of progress itself beyond the overcoming of the class antagonism!
Ryan Gonzalez
Yo what if like everybody went crazy and like you wrre so high you broke your programming and you wake uo and youre in a tube full of liquid and youre choking and drowning and you die and you wake up bit you are dreaminng but then you realize you never went to sleep, no you were never alive at all and then you realize that you were never even a human and then you wake up and you realize you were day dreaming but then you realize you are a tremendous, antimaterilaist faggot who will hopefully off himself to prevent future shitposts.
Jeremiah Watson
This except for a misunderstanding. You have forgotten about false conciousness and you have determined too strongly of an A -> B cause and effect. I can see race and nation, and I definitely dont believe in God but I have never been convinced of this (your statement) enough to consistently and strongly argue with people against god, the nation, and race. Do you have any books about this?
Hudson Powell
What??? Read stirner.
Robert Wilson
He would dismantle communism just as happily as he would capitalism. Actually go read Stirner. He thought Marxism was spooky .
James Harris
exerting energy to reap benefits within a few years, is not the same as self-sacrifice for a better future for others, one you may not reap or be alive to experience
