Venezuela thread #5295238

Are any of you planning to invest in the Petro?

Also we need a vuvuzela flag

/mao/ has this Chavista flag

Attached: Chavista.png (17x11, 594)

Looks pretty tight. But I did hear that the BO can't or won't add any new flags though unfortunately.

1. Which US and allied organizations are subverting Venezuela?

2. Who is Venezuela's closest ally?

3. Which Venezuelans hate Maduro the most?

4. What did I miss?

Gee, i wonder how many people would get stuff.

He is a jew, so not going to happen, jews need to keep their wealth to keep power.

I'm not sure if you've missed it but if you try anying in borgerlands backyard you'll get executed faster than you can say muh gommunism :..(

Are you unsarcastically this retarded?

William Jiménez, National Investigation Coordinator of the Bello Monte morgue, says that opposition lawmaker Albán's autopsy was modified. According to him, they found water in Albán's lungs, but Minister of Interior Reverol ordered to have that information redacted.

el-carabobeno.com/funcionario-de-la-morgue-ministro-reverol-ordeno-adulterar-resultados-de-autopsia-de-alban/

There's a manual for the Venezuelan government troll army. Each person manages 10 Twitter accounts, 5 Facebook accounts, 5 Instagram accounts, 1 YouTube account, 1 Google+ (lol) account and 1 WhatsApp number.
There are groups for article writing, programming/hacking and design, along with "identity creators" (to make the 23 accounts per person look convincing) and flamers.
There are 5 types of groups: #1 sends pro-government messages, #2 sends supposedly anti-government messages (uses intentionally bad arguments on hashtags), #3 is "neutral", #4 distracts people by derailing things with unrelated topics and #5 spreads fake news.

docplayer.es/docview/82/85781191#file=/storage/82/85781191/85781191.pdf

Image of the first page

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Oy vey. He is a sephardic jew, he admitted it in one of the interviews.

Just finished skimming over this book. While it is an interesting counter perspective I have multiple complaints.

1) Absolutely nowhere is the massive expansion of the money supply/money printing under Maduro addressed. The idea that this doesn't play into and worsen the inflation at all is laughable, so it seems the author avoided discussing this entirely.

2) The author blames third party actors for manipulating the exchange rate using a trusted website source (DolarToday). However, the Black Market can only exist due to the currency controls. If the currency was allowed to float, literally 100% of the corruption from privileged party insiders as well as the currency manipulation would disappear overnight. It is literally impossible for a black market to form for currency if you do not have currency controls/pegged exchange ratios.

3) Maybe this was mentioned but it's not clear if a lot of the statistics/numbers used factored inflation into account. It's clear when the author uses USD, but there's no USD$ sign for a lot of/most of the numbers, which is either an honest oversight or a sleight of hand to disguise that average spending on, say, importing products has actually gone down in real terms instead of the sunny picture the author tries to portray.

4) One of the arguments that the author uses to justify currency, price controls et al is that "it worked fine for the first seven years or so so why bother switching?" My response would be perhaps that the controls only work for a limited amount of time. The US, for example, used price controls during WW2 and afterwards but they eventually stopped working and were abolished. If there is a time lag it would explain why no ill effects were immediately visible when first implemented.

yup, retarded

bingo.

Is the "Maduro is a dictator" meme true? I know it was total bullshit during the Chavez presidency, all his victories were verified by international observers, but the recent Constituent Assembly thing looks sketchy as fuck. From my uninformed perspective it looks like the PSUV / Maduro were gridlocked by the legislature, wrote a new constitution to bypass the legislature, realized that the referendum required to enact the new constitution would likely fail and therefore got the Supreme Court (judges legitimately appointed under Chavez) to claim the Presidency could call a CA unilaterally. Or is this narrative full of shit? Hard to tell what's really going on under all the propaganda.

Us didnt like Russia bullying countries nearby, us didn't like a socialist state working, they did economic warfare to destroy their cash crops and then their currency. Now everyone is going to pull away from usd. There are different layers to everything, so that's just in fake world. In real world all of these people are just the same people. It doesn't matter which country they are. Native Americans and shit just had fucking tribes and worked together. Every single person on the planet who thinks that a magical piece of paper or coin has any value is delusional and part of the same cult. You have to completey cut yourself off from money to see reality for the first time. If it means you end up homeless whatever. Obviously for the time being you have to use some shit in fake world but rock bottom is very important to save yourself. This is very similar to the ego destruction, ego and money work together. The purpose of celebrated people and politicians is constantly re attaching the chains to people. They also create new ones. They are aware of what I am saying but instead of choosing the reasonable and winning path they exploit this knowledge for pointless selfish gains. A family of ten can operate with every person being treated equally and everyone can end up successful. This is literally communism, but let's distance ourselves from that word and maybe call a new system empathism or something. It's not that hard you just be the change you want to see. I ran experiments my entire life and you can create psychic bonds with norms and everyone just gives in a little takes a little etc etc . Eventually all these people failed and went back to sucking societies dick, but progress was made. I don't know what the fastest solution is but some humility must be employed for the time being. Also, you must use this chaos as a learning experience, because how would you know how bad evil capitalism is without seeing it? Once you clear out the bullshit you just use your will and get shit done. USE THE FORCE! please tell me you were watching star wars and Lord of the rings the same way i was… Shit like that is the real Bible. Ignore every single thing outside of your goal and you will accomplish anything. The word demon most likely originated from the psychotic entitited that ruin everything. A name was assigned to these people. They are still very much alive, and I'd say most of the world is corrupted. Most have been uncorrupted for periods , but saurons pull them back to retardation . Money is going to be destroyed and all things everyone need to survive will be free, but it won't happen unconditionally, then after that markets separate from necessities for living will emerge so those who need to feel special can have containment arenas to battle in.

too long didn't read lmao

Creating destructive governments (corrosive to the goyim only) must be a genetic trait of the jew.

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They need it tbh

That's Cuba brah

I'm being sarcastic. It's cause "muh vuvuzela" is such a popular rebuttal by reactionaries.

Attached: charlie kirk vuvuzela.jpg (1080x1599, 212.09K)

more like buttzela

Why is "Venezuela." a bad argument? It perfectly sums up everything wrong with leftism. You won, then everyone starved.

Venezuela has 70% privatization and is a Social Democracy at best. If you were here for more than 5 minutes you'd realize everyone here hates SocDems.

It's just a socdem nation, but they aren't allowed to become the Sweden of the South America. None of them are allowed. The US is rigging Brazil's election the way they do their own.

Yeah yeah the leftists that actually hold positions of power aren't real leftists because they suck so much you don't want to be associated with them. Venezuela wouldn't be collapsing if Capriles had won.

They're not capable of becoming Sweden. They're a completely different kind of people.

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then they say le left can't meme

Jesus fuck what on Earth is that "meme"? This is why state censorship must exist.

What has happened in venezuela is the effect of poor policy.
After nationalizing the oil industry it became less productive since workers were guaranteed employment and price controls caused shortages.
If they really wanted to be sucdem they would have just raised taxes on the oil industry to fund their programs.

And now this guy's tired line again.
Why are rightwingers still poking their noses in here?

why am I being called out for pointing out what's wrong.
If I'm a capitalist and I sell bread at $3 and I'm told to sell bread at $1 I wouldn't sell bread, because I'd be selling at a loss.
That's why there's shortages, the fact that they can't figure that out leads me to believe its either plain sabotage or maduro really is that dumb.

...

I know the usual corporate sabotage played some role in the collapse, but Americans are obsessed with Venezuela for a reason: it's a perfect example of what they think socialism is.

...

/thread

The only time socialism worked was when Hitler tried it. It took the entire world to wage countless years of war to destroy his utopia. Compare that to a few “sanctions” that has caused every socialist country to collapse like a tower of cards in the wind.

Are you TRS or something? Not even Zig Forums worships Hitler anymore.

Why don't you look at the countries that aren't social democracies but actually existing socialism? Cuba, the USSR, the DDR, Yugoslavia, etc. - there's no lack of proof that actual leftism works just fine.

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/thread

youtube.com/watch?v=DhtWp2cQM_8
If someone knows spanish, GTFO Duque and your invasor GANG

There's also the fact that people in bad situations sometimes just want a way out. Suicide, or dying from tons of concrete falling on you after being bombed, can look more glamorous than a slower death from several months of barely eating.

Name one socialist policy that is responsible for Venezuela's situation, and no, "failure to diversify the economy" and "printing money" aren't socialist policies.

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Capitalism and the right causes migration to maintain a reserve of labor to facilitate the further expansion of capital

That's not socialism
In socialism the private bakery would cease to exist to begin with

BTFO With facts and logic

The only thing Venezuela discredits is the idea of socialists taking power in elections peacefully, without gulags, secret police or purges. Now it has mobs of reactionaries setting people on fire while yelling "This is what happens to Chavistas".

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Or we can call them "involuntary hunger strikes".

Some people are struggling with food, but it's not like the media portraits the situation like there's a fucking dystopian scenario with literal zombies looking and killing for food.

Looks like even pro-Chavéz journalist/groupie Eva Golinger is now absolutely pissed off with Maduro, denouncing him in the New York Times.

Muh Venezuela is only a good response if somebody proposes exactly what the government is doing in Venezuela. Venezuela has private ownership of the means of production with some very adhoc price controls added to it (e.g. covering eggs sold directly to consumers, but not eggs used in production of other foods). Since the means of production are privately owned and business owners need to finance their business from their sales, and the government seems to have very little information about how they use resources, this doesn't work.

If the means of production are all state-run and resource allocation to them is an administrative/political thing, a "business" may be allowed to permanently run at loss and get easy credit with little or no interest attached (if what it produces is deemed important enough). Indeed, the words profit, loss, credit don't quite have the same connotations anymore. For example, in the GDR, some "companies" were constantly in the red because they didn't make "profit", but that was because of state-dictated very low prices, so they got money from the state bank again and again. The state bank wasn't profit-oriented, so it gave credit again and again not because they expected that trend to change, but because it was policy. In other words, a subsidy. Whether such a setup is desirable or not (btw. there is no logical necessity to have fixed and subsidized prices just because the means of production are state-owned and operated in a centralized fashion), what the GDR did is not what Venezuela is doing, and the GDR didn't have problems with feeding people or unemployment or extreme inflation.

The problem with explanations like these is that our definition of socialism is alien to the burgers that screech endlessly about VUVUZELA. They literally do not know what capitalism or socialism are, so Chavismo aligns perfectly with what they think the latter is.

"Change my view: Venezuela does not have a food crisis"
reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/9r66cs/cmv_venezuela_does_not_have_a_food_crisis/
Let's see if they get to change OP's view.

OP deleted her account.

Let's check their Speccy/PC specs thread (those are always skewed towards the higher end, though). Desktops:
>>>/arepa/26990 Celeron D 336 (2005), 3GB DDR2 RAM, Radeon HD 5450 (2010)
>>>/arepa/28434 Athlon 64 3000+ (2003), 2GB DDR1 RAM, GeForce 8400 GS (2007)
>>>/arepa/28379 Pentium E5300 (2008), 4GB DDR1 RAM, Radeon HD 5450 (2010)

>>>/arepa/27800 i3-2100 (2011), 6GB DDR3 RAM, Radeon HD 6670 (2011)
>>>/arepa/27010 FX-8320 (2012), 8GB DDR3 RAM, GeForce GTS 250 (2009)
>>>/arepa/28556 FX-6300 (2012), 16GB DDR3 RAM, "Radeon R7 200 Series" (2013/2014)

>>>/arepa/27246 i7-4770K (2013), 8GB DDR3 RAM, GeForce GTX 760 (2013)
>>>/arepa/29783 i5-3330 (2012), 8GB DDR3 RAM, GeForce GT 1030 (2017)
>>>/arepa/27252 i7-2600 (2011), 8GB DDR3 RAM, GeForce GTX 1050 (2016)
>>>/arepa/27784 A10-7850K (2014), 8GB DDR3 RAM, Radeon RX 580 (2017)

Laptops:
>>>/arepa/28859 Celeron 847 (2011), 2GB DDR3 RAM
>>>/arepa/28458 A8-4500M (2012), 4GB DDR3 RAM
>>>/arepa/27200 A6-4400M (2012), 6GB DDR3 RAM
>>>/arepa/27036 i3-2310M (2011), 4GB DDR3 RAM
>>>/arepa/29783 i5-4300U (2013), 8GB DDR3 RAM

Are they really that well-off?

user…

I wanted to see how informed people here were. i5-3330 + GT 1030 is close to the top for Venezuelans (not other Latin Americans, Venezuelans).

colombians, mexicans, etc can save up for it without problems tho, even though venezuelans have forgotten the concept of saving up for a microwave or being able to buy one and pay for it in multiple installments.

Half right.
They have the history of the U.S. meddling in their country more than them.

Because Bolivia is mostly doing the same thing and is fine.

There has to be something else if Venezuela's murder rate is 50-80x Sweden's murder rate.

Venezuela is proof that the only way socialism can develop is with the death of American imperialism

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is there evidence for this?
all I can find is an 8 years old article, that's not good enough source.

Pretty much. Venezuela shows the pitfalls of not being ruthless enough - the capitalists will stab you in the back every chance they get.

The Venezuelan government doesn't like to publish anything that looks unfavorable for them (homicide, inflation, unemployment, child malnutrition rate), so you won't find anything newer. They deleted the old files from the central bank's site, and it's not on any of the new ones.

literally just google it. also, search venezuelaanalysis.com for articles about privatization.

i have posted info on this before, and it doesn't take long to find.

Venezuela imports 14,000 tons of wheat from the United States
They had the tweet up for around 12 hours when they realized that people could see the ship's route (it came from the US) and deleted it.
venezuelaaldia.com/2018/10/26/se-cae-la-mentira-del-bloqueo-venezuela-importo-14-mil-toneladas-trigo-eeuu/

marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/shipid:731593/zoom:10

Correction: it's still up

twitter.com/BolipuertosMCBO/status/1055538938520260608

I'm not sure what you're saying.

Don't forget that he also nationalised every bit of profitable business, condemning them to the same garbage inefficiencies governments are renowned for.

Socialism always ends in poverty, starvation, barbarity and injustice. How much more proof do you need? Every attempt to socialism, communism or whatever spinoff of Marx's ideas have ended in misery, ignore history at your own peril.

Shut up

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Excuse me?

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the irony of people who try and pull the "look at history card" is that you are going out of your way to ignore actual history and get all your information about socialism from capitalist think tanks.
cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP84B00274R000300150009-5.pdf
prolecenter.wordpress.com/2013/11/09/oppressive-and-grey-no-growing-up-under-communism-was-the-happiest-time-of-my-life-2/
counterpunch.org/2014/10/24/freest-under-czech-com
drive.google.com/file/d/0B-eTgjCs2lzpMl92U3JzQ0pIa3c/view
gowans.wordpress.com/2011/12/20/we-lived-better-then/

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The government is saying "we're 100% sovereign, freeing ourselves from american influences/imperialism" yet they're still importing tons of wheat from the United States of America because the local industry is fucking dead.

like I said, I can only find an 8 years old article that points out 70% of the economy is in the private sector.
nothing else.

finally found a somewhat interesting site about venezuela
venezuelanalysis.com/

I'm surprised that they haven't pulled a Golinger yet.

here:
>>>/netcom/1262

Honestly I don't know what to trust anymore regarding Venezuela.