We can usually tell when someone else is suffering from a lot of gestures and physical posturing. Our complex facial musculature serves to that same purpose. Fetuses simply don't have a way to emote.
Does anyone here doubt that a three months old fetus feels? Nervous systems don't turn suddenly on exactly at the moment of a natural birth. The thing is ripped apart to death or left to die in a plate, but there is no way it doesn't suffer.
Even if you are not sure, the very possibility should be taken more seriously than it often is, afaic
If I impregnated a girl and she aborted the kid she'd be dead soon after tbh
Cooper Campbell
I lean pro-choice, but I have always been astounded by the dishonesty of the pro-choice discourse. I don't see how someone could honestly argue it isn't a viscerally fucked up practice.
Sebastian Collins
I too lean pro choice, but my specific fence sitting position is that it's both unethical to refuse a woman the right to abort, as well as being unethical to terminate a life in the circumstance that a woman knew full well what she was doing and her own health is not at risk.
Josiah Anderson
I unironically believe that, although abortion is killing a human, it isn't killing a person since the victim doesn't have the cognitive capacity to earn personhood. I don't think killing infants is murder either.
Noah Butler
I'm not pro-choice I'm pro-abortion
If a child is unwanted I'd rather it being torn apart and be done with it than letting it grow up. "My body, my choice" is just bullshit people tell themselves to have a kind of moral standing about it, and to feel progressive for giving women more rights, but the effects on a woman's body or life doesn't even compare to what the effect on the fetus' body and life is.
This And it seems incredibly self-centered and self-victimizing thinking that when someone opposes abortion they do it as a direct opposition to women rights or sexual morality exclusively
In that I kinda fall in the same category as above, might be for the best and better cut to the chase. The thing is that, just like with other legal ages, you need to set an arbitrary moment/age when youths are legally adults, adults are legally elderly and children are no longer subject to their parents choice to kill them. 12 week fetus seems like a nice morally conservative place for the cut-off, birth sounds somewhat correct too, but maybe a year is enough for detecting birth defects. I don't think anyone who gives their child a test-run is going to off them after six months though.
The thing is, being able to off infants AFTER they are out of the woman's body is a terrible idea for other reason: Imagine you bring someone else's child
Blake Green
Lmfao looks like a little peanut. Whats next sperm people?
Carson Davis
We've had more then a few threads on abortion before 8ch.net/leftypol/res/2343982.html 8ch.net/leftypol/res/2445039.html Note the second one starts with joking, so don't take that too seriously. We've more or less been divided in the past between being generally pro-choice and being pro-choice but with the goal of eliminating the economic and material reasons people get abortions in the first place as per Lenin. I personally don't like abortion and fall in line more with the second. Then there is the anti-natalists, but there aren't many of them here anymore
Nathan Barnes
Yes, I am absolutely and completely certain that there is nothing wrong with abortion. Seriously, the scoop and suck should be heralded by all socialists. Can we all just recognize that this isnt a person? This couldnt live outside of a vagina, and even if it could there would be sincere questions about the "life" it will have outside of the womb. Getting an abortion isnt anymore wrong than cumming in a sock, having your period, or killing a rat. A rat is probably having more of a human experience than an abortable fetus. The idea that there are any ethics to be had here is a goddamn SPOOK. Yall are SPOOKED. Begone GHOSTS.
I don't think abortion is good, and I hope that under socialism we will abolish it near completely (not possible in capitalism, sadly). But insane shit like this or Zig Forums talking about how the average woman has 10 abortions a day to justify their insecurities makes me want to personally abort late term babies using a rusty WW2 bayonet.
Wyatt Russell
I have to concur. The practice is barbaric. Throwing out completely nutritious meat is worse than just 'wasting,' it's a crime. Throw that little nigger in a pot and you've got a stew goin'.
Nolan Price
According to your logic, killing a person in his sleep is also not a crime.
But if you had kids you were supported, it isn't at all similar to like the USA
Camden Hernandez
In my opinion abortion should be last option. Leftist society should invest into education and real parental control like quality pills and quality condoms, because under crapitalism all three are unsurprisingly crap.
Adam Hughes
no you don't have consent to kill me during any part of my gestation. the dumbest term I hear these days is "safe abortion" le women should have the right to safe abortion,ummm what? Abortion is inherently unsafe for the party being murdered.
Austin Campbell
ABORT MORE BABIES, STOP ENVIRONMENTAL COLLAPSE,FREE CONDOMS,FETUSES ARE POSSIBLE HUMANS NOT ACTUAL HUMANS AND DO NOT FEEL PAIN OR THINK. MORE SEX THOUGH MADE BY ONE CHILD ANTI-MORALISM GANG
Benjamin Martin
bad moralizing is still moralism
t. brainlet pork
Xavier Myers
next post a chart of the brain development
Cooper Walker
because stalin was pro-natalist. it had nothing to do with moral scruples. same reason why the nazis and french political class banned abortion in those days.
Eli Murphy
pro-natalist for military and economic purposes i should add. i think that is the only reason that anti-abortion should be justified.
Parker Reed
Correct, how about you define when a human comes into play. Of course you'll be going against actual science in regards of when a abortion cannot be made which seems like the best idea since up to that point fetuses barely resemble a human (biologically as well) let alone feel or think. At best up to a certain date their a blob of jelly.
Colton Jackson
Except the fetus is already a person. Because reproduction has already fully completed.
By the fucking fundimental definition of life, featuses before the 3rd trimester aren't life due to the lack of the ability to exist independently of another organism.
Andrew Jackson
We can only eradicate abortion after we eradicate capitalism. Once there is no economic insecurity and there is robust child-rearing support like communal kindergartens, only then we can think about banning or limiting abortion. I think the early Soviet system of working women's committees is best.
Before that any kind of state family planning will only end in misery, poverty and happy porky.
Justin Taylor
A human being is created the very exact second a sperm touches a egg, Instead of a blob of cells with no feeling,thoughts,senses with the future potential to be human.
THE DAY AFTER PILL IS ACTUALLY EXISTING MURDER ==MADE BY MENSTRUATION IS GODS WRATH FOR FEMALE SIN GANG==
Eli Lopez
But abortion is usually performed before week 20, aka before nervous system (or brain and organs) is developed
Brandon Phillips
This is a real non issue. Most abortions when legal and with modern medicine take place very early way before any possability of any cognitive ability and the vast majority of those after are for medical reasons to save the life of the mother or because something was wrong with the baby.
The USSR was the first to have non conditional abortions but Stalin at a different point not only outlawed abortion but practically forced all women to be pregnant or they would get penalized.
Jonathan Smith
this is correct and that's how insemination works for all species, not just humans.
faulty reductionism is brain-damage.
abortive drugs are murder, unfortunately, contrary to what your liberal professor and buzzfeed say
Charles Morales
No it's not a human, it's a blob of cells with the potential to be human. That's literally what it is. No brain,no nervous system,no lungs,no reproduction system,no internal organs not even limbs. It's a bunch of cells that will grow into a human if left alone but it's as much a human as my skin cells or hair. lol says the conservative moralizer right in line with Peterson,radical Christians,Muslims,fascists and whatever else human trash made with feudal tier morality in regards to knowledge they had absolutely no way of understanding.
Noah Hall
As retarded as moral relativism is, a child born into suffering because of economic reasons is better of never existing before they get the chance to suffer in this world.
Made by nihilist gang
Elijah Sanders
I wouldn't kill a rat either though lad
Asher Torres
Cool? Are you implying you would make it illegal to kill rats growing inside of women that will turn into people? Because that is the discussion here, and I only made the rat point to illustrate the incredibly inhuman characteristics of a fetus outside of its ability to develop into a human.
2} people have the right to dispense with their labor towards their own ends, and ownership of what they create with their labor toward personal use, but since the "product" of pregnancy is humanity, and you can't own another human, you can only expend that effort as a gift. a gift can only be given freely. if time and the resources of the body are taken from someone that counts as exploitation. maybe some women deserve to be exploited, but do all fertile women as a category have a class nature which would demand this? compensate them for necessary reproductive labor to the full.
3} any social trait, sense of belonging other than to the body of the mother, that is seen in a fetus is purely imagined. a fetus is not a person like a child is, because they have no identity. they cannot reciprocate sociality. since we should not expect any reciprocal social relationship between the mother and the fetus, we should not expect any kind of promise to have been made that would be broken by abortion. any promise to proceed with pregnancy made between the mother and anybody else that would be broken only by the child not surviving must be based on the assumption that the life of the child itself is owned.
4} build from concrete concerns first. put concrete people before abstract people.
