After reading Badiou's book on St. Paul, I was inspired to become a Born-Again Christian (socialist). After studying Church history, however, I can no longer be a Protestant.
My issue now is deciding whether I should join the Roman Catholic Church (or any Church in communion with Rome) vs. the Eastern Orthodox Church. I'm leaning much more towards Eastern Orthodoxy for theological reasons, HOWEVER the big issue here is that Eastern Orthodoxy has always been deeply reactionary and anti-communist. The only thing Rome has going for it is a relatively progressive Pope as well as Liberation Theology having a huge influence on socialist movements in Latin America. But I can't help but think Rome isn't "true" to the original Christian doctrine whereas the Eastern Churches are. But at the same time, I see images of Greek Orthodoxy giving blessings to members of Golden Dawn, Russian Orthodoxy canonizing the Czar and his family (f*** that), Ukrainian and Romanian Orthodoxy denouncing communism (using Black Book fake statistics among all things), and so on.
Both Rome and the East have denounced the Jews and Judaism for being anti-universalist.
Chase Davis
Join the Eatern Catholic Church. Literally the best of both worlds: joined with Rome but almost all the rituals come from the east.
t. Raised Byzantine-rite catholic
Isaac Davis
that is to say
someone ban this fucking tard already
Ryan Harris
If you're going to listen to clergy and accept the authority of the church you're already fucked anyway.
Owen Ramirez
No, I was inspired by Badiou to re-embrace Christ and Christianity as a philosophical doctrine of universal brotherhood.
Henry Lopez
Dude, my priest is my priest because he knows more than me. He has merit and closeness to God which I lack. Of course I'm going to listen to what he says the same way you listen to your party leaders.
Christianity is more than the Bible, dummy. It's also the traditions. Paul even says go to the traditions.
Leo Ward
The split is bullshit, unlike the Reformation, which was caused by genuine disagreements with the Latin doctrine in content, the split between Rome and Constantinople was only caused by political disagreements, specifically between the right of the pope to appoint an emperor, which was viewed as a Schism by the Eastern Church. The West fucked a bit with the Byzantine Empire, the Byzantine Empire fucked a bit with the West (like imprisoning the pope at some point), and boom, you got the Great Schism.
It's more likely that the catholic and the orthodox church unite rather than that the protestant church with the catholic church. In any case, fuck protestantism. Shit gave rise to capitalist ideology.
Asher Green
if you were a good materialist you would realise it was the other way around
Liam Fisher
I agree with everything you're saying. But which Church is better for a communist?
Carson Bailey
Join the one with the theology you like the most, and completely divorce it from your politics. Stop with this faggy christcom larping. Are you seriously going to talk to your priest about communism? Are you ok reatard?
Also Orthodoxy is shit and only imageboard kids like it because "le epic funny slavs like in STALKER who say cheeki breeki and remove kebab xD"
Christopher Sanders
Its more byzaboo and trad LARPing but yeah, this
Matthew Howard
Orthodoxy has the best ascetics and this is what i think is important in religion, the mainstream clerical stuff is dubious and too easily a tool of the state, but those guys in caves are solid.
Thomas Howard
Adder reading a Walmart flier I was idsbired to begome a born-again down syndrome (socialist) again. :DD Adder studying syndrome history, howeber, I gan no longer be a down syndrome.
Shud I join the down syndrome vs. the down sydrom?
God there's nothing i hate more than seeing faggots picking and choosing 'their religion' like its some sort of fucking diet and you choose the one you feel suits you the most. Faith is a question of truth, objective reality. The fact that you're undecided about which denomination you 'want to join' is really fucking pathetic when you should KNOW what is true, who is correct, etc. Either the Pope has certain authority or he doesn't. Either you do believe in and accept Christ as your lord and saviour or you don't. Believe what you think is true or correct, not what you 'like'.
THIS This obnoxious faggottry is what im talking about. You see this aesthetics obsessed garbage everyday when a Zig Forumsyp comes here saying he wants to be 'converted' or what have you. Its all aesthetics and football teams to these degenerates not actual reality. All of them belong on the cross.
John Morgan
All churches are "deeply reactionary and anti-communist".
Alexander Reed
God is fucking dead and liberalism and modernity are brain worms which have eaten away at your brains to such an extent that you cannot interface with reality poltiically or otherwise except through vapid ego-driven aesthetic and indentitarian choices.
well i had a good and relevant rant anyway. sorry for that user, i misread >_
Isaac Mitchell
Orthodoxy has less theological tangled webs as Roman Catholicism, but I hesitate to join them because they're much more reactionary. And yes, I do plan on talking to my priest about communism like any good comrade should do. Jesus was a communist after all, as was Paul.
Nathaniel Scott
Well, enjoy hearing about how Stalin killed 100 million innocent Orthodox priests and being reported to the CIA
Blake Garcia
Nobody gives a shit about your antiquated beliefs and your cognitive dissonance. You are not special, get it? Nobody cares what kind of ideology you "adopted" today just like nobody cares what kind of cloths you will decide to wear tomorrow. Nobody gives a shit about your personal life, your relationship to your fucking janitor or priest unless it is directly related to the main focus of this board: communism. Your pathetic attempts at jamming your stone age sand people religion into EVERY. FUCKING. THREAD. are interpreted as desperate cries for recognition.
Here's a hint, you stupid little shit: you get recognition here and IRL communist parties if you study, teach, do Marxism. Nobody gives a shit if you are otherwise gay, Muslim, a transnigger.
Communism IS Christianity. St. Paul was the first Narxist. You cannot be a communist without being a Pauline Christian.
Hudson Gonzalez
Dropped. L2 Church history.
Chase Johnson
The same would happen with a priest from any other religious denomination, Catholicism didn't stop being anti-communist and reactionary because the Pope said people should get free stuff
Tyler Hall
Prots / Church of / Reformed have OBJECTIVELY done more for Societal progress then the other two combined (Republicanism / Liberalism / the Modernn Republic etc)
Juan Cook
Liberation Theology much?
Michael Lee
irrelevant unless you're in latin america and just short of being considered heretical.
Aaron Edwards
Cont.
The Protestant / Reformed movement was also progressive as it weakened Rome and gutted the Theocratic Papists power as before the Reforming of North Europe the Pope basically WAS the ruler with Final say on various issues
Plus it broke up church holdings and split them between competing groups which made it easier for their influence to fade / Be stripped away
Josiah Hernandez
Just convert to Judaism, OP. The kabbalistic concept of tikkun olam (literally: rectifying the world) is the true basis of communism. Marx came from a long line of rabbis and was no doubt familiar with the thought of Isaac Luria. It's 100% dialectical and believes the messiah is a Lenin/Che figure. It also rejects "progress"/linear time, just like post colonial Marxism.
Also, you'll finally get a guy to fondle your dick as part of your conversion. How about that?
Juan Moore
Actually the Church has been hugely influential in *recent* socialist revolutions in the region.
Dominic Richardson
Except thats false as Marx disliked Judaism as a faith and based his ideas upon science and societal Progress up to that point
Michael Rivera
Millions of dead Palestinians would disagree.
Jason Jenkins
Doesn't address what i said, nor was i aware there have been any 'recent' socialist revolutions in 'the region', or any region for that matter.
Jacob Green
Citation needed
Nathan Smith
I'm not sure why we get Zig Forumstards who cite "On the Jewish Question" as evidence of his antisemitism, then attribute his views to his deep love of kabalism/Judaism, as evidence of a Jewish plot against whites.
Bentley Wilson
Christian existentialist better
Christopher Evans
What "early Christians?" The Church IS early Christianity.
Isaiah Russell
Actually the trees have been hugely influential in *recent* socialist revolutions.
Lemme guess, you're one of those New Age Gnostic types who thinks the Council of Nicaea ruined everything, a Mormon or "Hebrew Roots."
Sorry but Jesus left us a Church, not just a bundle of teachings.
Nolan Long
If you think that the church today or a millennium ago is comparable or contiguous with the Christianity of Paul and the apostles you're fucking deluded. 'The Church' is entirely a creation of imperial Rome and in the service of its state interests. There's nothing 'radical' or communist about your church anymore when you're a tool of autocrats and are accepted and propagated by empires. Your bible was carefully edited and written up by aristocratic bishops and emperors. Nothing but servile boot-licking.
Benjamin Cooper
...
Isaiah Fisher
LOL this is what New Age idiots actually believe.
Study more nibber.
Sebastian Mitchell
not an argument.
Jordan Carter
I'm not even Protestant, but you don't need a literal translation to get this.
Justin Smith
do you live in parts of Latin America controlled by socialist insurgents who espouse liberation theology? no? then your chances to run across a liberation theology priest are pretty much nil.
liberation theology is a meme.
Chase Perez
Jesus left us a Church, not just a web of teachings. Again, study Church history (real history, not New Age bullshit). Learn about how the Church developed.
Also, most of Protestantism is rooted in Rome.
Jack Taylor
except this guy kinda. he was police spy but so were a lot of leftists in those days but he was the driver behind organizing the working class for the showdown on Bloody Sunday.
no he didn't you vacuous brainlet. his self appointed, self-serving disciples, propagandists and interpreters marketed his ideas to be as appealing to certain sections of the roman citizenry as possible. it morphed beyond recognition as it grew in popularity, with the church forming parallel and shadow institutions that mimicked the roman state (why do you think dioceses mirrored the shape of roman provinces?
Jayden Rodriguez
wut?
Oliver Rodriguez
I very much agree with you, op. After thinking about it, join Orthodox Church. It needs people like you to reform to the left.
Xavier Mitchell
cont. you think basilicas and cathedrals are original? no, the former directly takes its name from the large chambers that roman magistrates held court, with some modifications. pic related was converted directly from a roman basilica (built by constantine) to a church in late antiquity
But that's true. Strongly Religious Jews are often anti-Zionist. Political power in Israel belongs mostly to secular Jews from the former USSR.
Kevin Lee
USSR was both anti-zionist and pro-zionist
David Evans
Look into Miaphysite Assyria and try to apply their variation of Christianity into a modern movement.
Easton Green
The Catholic worldview is inherently closer to leftist thought, I believe. By no means is it compatible with Marxism or anything, but if we took seriously the claims of Church doctrine, I think anti-capitalism is the logical conclusion.
Nathaniel Lee
How does the fact that many jews moved to Israel after the USSR fell make the USSR either of these things?
Jack Rivera
why are christ coms the worst posters
Jace Diaz
Protestantism was largely propagated to serve nation states in their independence from Roman authority, it is by no means a return to authentic Christianity. Historical record shows us that the Eucharist was considered a cornerstone of the faith as early as first century AD, and claims of papal supremacy also date very early from theologians in 2nd-3rd centuries.
Frankly, the whole idea of there being an original, uncorrupt, consistent body of doctrine that later gets ruined by the Church is ridiculous and shitty historiography. The followers of Christ themselves were among dozens of monotheistic cults that interpreted the Torah in different ways, and such a thing that we can call "Christian doctrine" took several centuries to be hashed out through councils. Probably more than any other religion, Christianity was from the very beginning institutionally developed.
Nolan Sullivan
At no point did i claim or imply that protestantism is any more 'genuine' form of christianity or that it is anything other than hot garbage.
Hunter Hall
No you idiot, don't try to be a smartass. Capitalist ideology is literally born out of protestantism, calvinism in particular. Yeah, I wasn't talking about the material genesis of capitalism.
Jordan Rodriguez
smh, it was precisely the interests of the ever-stronger bourgeoisie and increasingly bourgeoisfied gentry as well as the early modern european monarchies which drove the growth and provided the impetus for the development and spread of protestantism. Capitalist ideology was not born out of protestantism, but rather protestantism was one of the first manifestations of capitalist ideology. lern2materialist
Leo James
Capitalist ideology was progressive in that point of time.
Jose Stewart
Bullshit again, protestantism already occured before Luther, as Zwingli, Wycliffe and Hus came befor him, are you telling me that there was capitalism in the early 15th century? LOL
Protestantism was born out of the heretic movements of the late middle ages, in a more stratified, less anarchistic manner, so that the princes alienated from Rome could take advantage of it without being threatened by a grassroot movement. Luther himself condamned the Peasant Revolution because it was threatening the feudal order. Capitalism didn't arise at that point, it tried to sometimes but feudalism pushed it down (the same way socialism tried to rise in the 20th century but capitalism pushed it down). You have a very mechanistic understanding of materialism, the superstructure is reciprocal to the base
I never said it wasn't progressive at that time, problem is, the old protestant ideology still permeates society in the USA for example, serving as an apologist for capitalism, so it is not just history.
Joseph Clark
You said "fuck protestantism. Shit gave rise to capitalist ideology" which kind of implies you would it rather not. Without capitalist ideology we'd be still having feudal ideology. Can't have historic progress without the shit parts.
I feel like Marxists severely underestimate the role Church had in preserving the pre-capitalist form of economy, in large part through banning and demonizing profit-seeking practices that would enable the bourgeois class to develop earlier. Protestantism itself was a historically progressive movement because tearing yourself off from Roman authority allowed states to get properly started with liberal market economics without tons of regulations and accepted traditions.
Granted Marx himself was more careful of a historian and was rarely this mechanistic meme of economic determinism, but a lot of Marxists analyse history in terms of productive forces coming into conflict with social relations etc., without regarding the superstructure as a powerful entity on its own.
If you wanna see how catholicism is more capitalist, compare at the amount of pro-yugoslav sentiment in catholic yugoslavia and orthodox yugoslavia.
The greek catholic minority in Ukraine spread anti-communism while the ukrainian orthodox community was initially pro-soviet after the breakup of the USSR
The majority of anti-Russian capitalist attitudes in Belarus come almost exclusively from the catholic areas.
Cooper Russell
It's more to do with geopolitics than religion. Greek catholic minority in Ukraine is very pro west, hence anti-soviet. If the west would turn communist these spineless people would fallow.
Robert Rodriguez
It must be the inherent anti-capitalism and progressiveness of orthodoxy, not just orthodoxes trying not to get gulaged on territories where socialism already won. After all the Orthodox Church was so supportive of the Russian Revolution.
The faggot wants everyone to know he is a socialist Christian, wow
Levi Ramirez
Untrue. Many religious Jews moved to Palestine en-masse before Zionism became a thing.
Cooper Johnson
I'm having trouble seeing how reading The Foundation of Universalism would enamor you to religion. Then again, I'm guessing (based on your style of writing) that you're that dogmatist christcom who takes every opportunity to make apparent your distaste for America, so it doesn't really matter what you think since you're not really thinking
Ian Thompson
First pic if you're feeling ChristCom Gang, second if you're willing to fix the schism.
how do reasonably intelligent young people even manage to do that
Grayson Evans
Srsly what is op's opinion on the Puritans?
Evan Lewis
Agnosticism and atheism are more common on the internet now so they need a way to be rebellious.
John Adams
kys
Austin Wood
What's wrong with Christian socialism? The very basis of communism is Christianity.
Caleb Davis
It's a hip way to rebel against your atheist family. My grandmother gets really annoyed if I talk about God at all, even as a joke. I imagine a lot of young people are in a similar situation today. Growing up in a world where civilized people have just gotten rid of Christianity, it's tempting to go back to it just to spite your elders. Especially if you have little first-hand experience of how stupid it really is.
Henry Harris
That aside, most of this shit is usually just a foot in the door strategy to establish some form of theocracy any way. I don't buy it.
Ryder Reyes
Christ liberated us form Jewish tyranny.
Camden King
Having something like Christianity was probably a necessary dialectical step in achieving a materialist understanding of the world, but there's no sense in staying loyal to it.
