I honestly believe that "anti-imperialism" and "3rd Worldism" is a Cpyto-Fascist plot because the basis for it, that there is no 1st World working-class (Settlers) and Socialism can only happen in the 1st World if the 3rd World unites under strong leadership, and the defending of stuff that Putin (jails Leftists), Assad (Neoliberal in addition to how Baathism is literally Arab Race centecommunism), Iran (kills Leftists), China (is literally jailing Marxists and has banned Communists as enemies of the State) does to the point that saying anything bad about them will get you banned on Leftist sites is pretty much bourgeois nations vs proletariat nations and is counter to what Marx and Engels talked about where glorified nations declaring war and conquering other nations, settler-colonialism, Imperialism, and etc. Trump and John Bolton is more inline with Marx than you.
The whole reason Trotsky would've defended Fascist Brazil was because the war with Britain would've awoken the working class to overthrow them. If you defend China, Russia, Syria, and Iran against being declared war you are defending the Working class's enslavement in those countries.
Except you're ignoring the fact that the first 3 of those countries have a long history of leftist movements and have a far better foothold for change, not to mention that they have far less power to repress leftism than Western imperialists because they only care about open protests, and are so heavy handed in their repressions that the result would be a blow-back revolution, unlike in the West, where soft-political brain-smoothing makes the working class itself incapable of revolt.
Chase Adams
Russia is at the point where the Communists are about to overthrow Putin. If Putin was to get them into a suicidal war to defend his power you don't think they would kick him out?
Oliver Barnes
okay so you're retarded do you not realise that, even if the countries that we are defending aren't socialist, they should be defened because the alterative is literally just giving america more hegemony over the world and expand their markets not to mention that if you're against anti-imperialism you're against pretty much every socialist state existing since they were and are always going to be under threat of imperialism so long as things like NATO exist should we have just supported the americans against the north vietnamese since "anti-imperialism" is fascist to you? literally read a fucking book
Adam Williams
Marx literally wanted a One World Government which would've been done via Conquest and for Capitalism to reach the point where if it was overthrown by the Workers would result in all of Capitalism being destroyed
David Cox
Also you truly don't appreciate how useful the United States military would be in achieving their goals. For all of your talk of US imperialism, and hatred of strong states, the only way that a world wide socialist order could ever emerge is if the US military and police were co-opted over time by hardcore dogmatic leftists and overthrew the government in a coup and began conquering the rest of the western hemisphere.
All of that is actually useful for you. The Worldwide dominance of the USA would mean that if the USA was ovetaken by a Coup then the entire World would fall in line and you could kill all the Fascists and Reactionaries.
Ryder Powell
no he didn't the end goal of communism is stateless classless societ, not a "one world government" that's literally a strawman fascists use to justify anti-communism (muh jewish communists want a single world government to control enslave the masses) which is rich coming from supposed against "crypto-fascism"
we shouldn't support imperialism because of somr hypothetical situation were there is a coup (you didn't even suggest revolution) and the whole united states just magically becomes a tool of socialism you're the fucking crypto-fascist here
Carson Sanchez
are you kidding me socialism isn't going to be achieved through bourgeois elections it can only happen through a full blown revolution and destruction of the existing government
Jaxon Sullivan
That isn't possible, only via convert manners can you gain control of the US Government.
For all of the flaws of the United States, you can always get into power via illegal methods to ensure your election to various government offices or via lying the shit. Literal Nazis are using this shit while you guys are LARPing.
Tell me how wanting to conquer the World to bring about a Worldwide Socialist Order is being Fascist.
Ayden Cox
Use Entryism. Pretend to be a typical Democrat or GOP and gain power. Make sure no one knows that you want to coup the Government.
Camden Reyes
conquering the world through united states imperialism and creating a one world order isn't socialism and i shouldn't have to explain this to you
Nolan Morales
Except that unlike 1917, the USA and West aren't busy infighting WW1 and would swoop in and destroy Russia and its revolution. Things are not quite the same.
Matthew Young
It is literally the only way. The Communists declared war on Poland to get into Europe because the Empires meant that having control of them would mean WorldWide Communism.
John Jackson
Funniest thing Ive heard all day
Lucas Walker
yes but you can't just magically reform the government and make it socialist you clown the way the united states and all capitalist systems are structured is so there are methods in place which prevent this kind of subversion from happening even if you became a president you wouldn't be able to achieved socialism, since you'll get desposed off or your attempts at reform will be blocked by the senate
Ian Martinez
There are literal Executive Orders in place that would put literally all the food and resources of the USA into your hands.
Liam Lee
Executive Order 10990. It lets us take over all modes of transportation.
If the President declares an emergency. Executive Order 10995. We can take over the media.
Executive Order 10997. We can take command of natural resources
The National Security Act also falls under our umbrella. And the Defense Production Act. If you plays your cards right, can pull off a bloodless coup.
Xavier James
The US government is a collection of smaller "countries" known as states that can and probably would break off from the federal government if it went full ML like that. It's not a machine. America was literally designed to prevent that sort of coup. You would need to either destroy it completely in an invasion (my preferred method) or take it down one state at a time via a mass movement.
Jaxson Gutierrez
Like I said,
Jeremiah Wood
Literally no nation on Earth can do that.
Nathan Turner
Okay this guy isn’t the smartest, but he does bring some valid criticism. A lot of the “anti-imperialist” states shilled for here are not leftist and are opposed to leftism, and regularly crack down on Communists. You can’t compare someone saying “We probably shouldn’t jerk off authoritarian social democrats who practice Arab nationalism” to someone literally having supported invastion of the North Vietnamese, when they had an actual socialist state. That Trotsky quote is used but with useful forgetting of the qualifiers, firstly that the nation at hand is currently at war with a bigger imperialist state, like the U.K. or the U.S., and secondly that a movement within will afterwards be reenergized to continue struggling even more for the fall of its capitalist state. Yet some here seem to be content with the continued rule of Assad after the Syrian war, or the continuing rule of Iran’s government, etc. The main justification used being that any resistance movement, even a straight up Communist one, would be possibly supported by imperialists. But then what of it? Are we forgetting that Lenin was sent on a train into Russia by the GERMANS. We should welcome the imperialists think of us as just another small pawn in chess game to use. To make them think we’re harmless and that we’ll just do their dirty work for them. Their underestimating is their downfall, and every revolutionary’s strength.
Samuel Cooper
Someone help, please. Where is the second world?
Josiah Morgan
No. Go back and read that quote again. Trotsky was rooting for hypothetical Fascist Brazil because he thought that a bad war against it would awaken the working class IN BRITAIN. He stated that if Britain won it would just force a worse capitalist regime on Brazil. And he was right. How's the working class in Libya and Iraq nowadays?
I don't like third-worldism, but what you are doing is worse.
Andrew Torres
the continent will sooner fall into the sea (literally)
Hudson Martin
East Europe.
Charles Rodriguez
I believe that only showing support for nations like Russia, China, Syria, or Iran without doing anything is a psy-op to distract people from overthrowing the Government, either by Fascists to gain control while you guys are hating on the USA or CIA cause . if the USA went to war with Russia, China, Syria, Iran people who support them will get shut down via Wartimes stuff.
Isaac Morris
Also hardcore anti-capitalistism is most likely a psyop
Cameron Mitchell
anti-Amer*icanism
Austin Cook
conflating anti imperialism with third worldism to make a point yes, third worldism is defeatist BS and serves fascism but it's not anti-imperialist third worldism wallows in imperialism, they don't waste a second thought on anti-imperialism because "there is no potential" anyway anti-imperialism itself involves the resistance by people living in imperialist nations
I also wanna point out that the USN could be cut by 2/3s and no enemy could invade the USA, the US Marine cut by half and the US Army by 7/8ths and the Airforce by 1/3rd. So amazingly enough, the US military could survive an explicit hardcore, political purge on a massive scale and the USA would still be immune to military invasion and conquest.
I mean like Anti-German, literally hating yourself for being American or hating Americans as a whole.
Zachary Reed
reply was meant for one post higher up
Jose Peterson
3rd Worldism definitely is reactionary but a lot of this is clearly neocohen bullshit that most anarchists and leftcoms alike wouldn't actually say unironically, not mention equating Alex Jones esque NWO shit with proletarian internationalism.That being said I hope you don't get banned anyway cause I am just against people being banned on principle.
i wouldnt want him banned either but not out of principle some of the ideas he shared, such as a charicature of some turbo-trotskyism where you wait till you have a world-imperialist hegemony to only have one enemy left to fight to win it all, thats just… its quite ridiculous but at least he's not sperging about it too hard so i guess it's tolerable enough polite sage for OT
Oliver Cox
I was wondering when Louis Proy*ct would finally waddle on in here.
Sebastian Jones
Stupid post made on false assumptions, the point of anti imperialism is not to exploit and/or bomb foreign often third world nations. It has little to do with hating on 1st world working class.
The whole point is to criticize the governments of Russia,China or Syria, but not in context of neoconservative nato should bomb them, but in context that workers should seize the means of production.
This is so fucking stupid it blown my mind. Fuck you, op. Fuck you!
The whole point is that either the workers take power, or some socialist country will export revolution there. nato brings only misery and pain.
Jeremiah Jackson
hmmm Saddam also killed Leftists in large numbers. But most people still opposed that war especially in hindsight. For liberals and leftists it was very safe opposing that war in 2003-2006 America was the world hegemon at the time leftists couldn't fathom anything replacing it ever so being anti-war was a very nice and safe form being good moral boy who's opposing the big bad US military. Totally different situation now most leftists right side of history endless linear progress type people are getting anxious they can feel that it's slipping away it's all slowly slipping away.
America has suffered a string of defeats it just can't seem to get a foreign policy victory and Americanism and the liberalism it shills worldwide is not popular to put it mildly. But Leftists need America and NATO to hammer through their progressive vision of the world into the cultural inferiors. Without soft and hard power the American and the Western model of enlightenment values can't be exported and leftists really do need it to be exported.
Maybe third worldists are right because Russia and China which are corporatist fascist state have absolutely no problems dealing with and finding common ground with bad leftists in the third world the Cuba's North Korea's and Venezuela's of the world and yet western progressives and leftists absolutely despise Russia and China and view bad leftists in the third world as cute little children who are doing it wrong.
Carson Edwards
your brain should be exported from your head onto a wall, nazi faggot
We can talk about how ok it is for USA to conquor the world WHEN THEY ARE FUCKING SOCIALISTS. Saying it's cool for USA to invade everyone because some day they may become socialists is fucking borderline retarded.
Matthew Phillips
Trotsky also supported nazi uprisings in the USSR so they'd destabilise the country, and took part in secret plots to oust and murder Stalin. Yet his "Fourth International" has achieved nothing and is the most cultish sectarian outgrowth of Marxism. Trotsky's ideas are not a good fucking yardstick for socialist praxis.
