Workers Party, yay or nay?

Do they operate in NI? I'm pretty certain they're anti-imperialist and would only have partner orgs rather than a branch or whatever :/

look up their site

dunno lol

They're complete shit. They're social reactionary LARPers for whom marxism-leninism stopped advancing in 1953. Also, enjoy being the Brar families puppet and listen to them harp on about how brilliant they are when they haven' actually done anything important.

Why not join labour?

I was an anarchist for years, thinking that i was above mainstream politics, but I realised that whole think was a dead end pose. I joined the labour party and realised that the other members (on the whole) are not enemies, they want the same things we all want.

the more you cry LARP the truer it becomes
real marxist analysis

Think I'll give them a miss then. Because I've been lurking on here so long I've been exposed to a lot of differenting Marxist ideas, so while I recognise there is a lot we can learn from the largest socialist experiment in history, I'm also very critical of a lot of the decisions taken under various premiers and some of its basic structures. If you've listened to cockshotts lectures you'll get me.
If the cpgb-ml is all about hero worship then that sounds terrible :L

Pick One. A political party having a branch in a certain place isn’t Imperialism.

It is a LARP if its not actual theory or praxis. I love Stalin but walking through London once a year carrying portraits of Stalin hasn't done anything for them 30 years and it never will because this is Britain, not China or NK. We're in the belly of the beast of western propaganda here. All they really do is preach to the convinced.

Its not even the hero worship, if the Brars had actually done something I'd be fine with them being praised. But they haven't. Furthermore, finding a party in Britain is almost impossible. There's like a billion trot parties (almost all of the parties in Britain are trots or crypto-trots) and a few ML ones that are too irrelevant to really do anything. Honestly, best thing you can do is join the Stop the War Coalition or some such group, given that ending imperialism is fastest route to socialism in the UK.

10/10 analysis
emphasis on anal

ah, there's the problem
you're retarded

As far as I know labour still have a pact with the SDLP(a dying catholic conservative party). I've been to labour alternative meetings, and they have some great members but they have pretty shite praxis.

Lol no, I've not had experience with them and from what I know they don't operate here at all. Another poster has also said they are crap so I don't know what to think.
As for Sinn Fein, it's not just the idpol thing, I suspect they dgaf about it and use it tactically. As I said I support some of their actions and policies but if having a history of actively implementing austerity and opposing Marxism doesn't worry you… Idk what to say :L
I started this thread just to see if anyone knows about the workers party and what their recent history is like. Their manifesto seems pretty cool, their bar seems decent as well on the grovner road. I'm just considering my options. My work life is finally in balance and I believe i have the means and time to be an active and useful member of a party.

If you've been doing something for years and years and its done absolutely nothing other than get you mocked, you're absolutely a LARPer. Marxism is about praxis as much as theory, and that may mean you have to leave the stalin portraits at home if it means you get shit done.

What, so you think employed people in Britain are going to leave their comfy homes, TVs, computers and video games and start a bloody revolution? Get real, most of them can't even be arsed to cook food anymore. Choking Britain by ending imperialism is best way to create a revolutionary situation, otherwise its just going to keep bribing its citizens with resources from the third world.

I was in stop the war coalition. I can't comment on others experiences but I left because we had a lot of long meetings all talking about how we all knew about terrible the situation in Palestine was. And we had more meetings about this. And a fundraiser from everyone in the meetings to raise money to book a conference room… For more meetings about how woke we all were.
There was little talk of action, but a lot of circle-jerking.
I gave up after a year because it was pointless. Then I got drunk, read books fell into some shitty jobs for about 5 years and now I'm here lol.

ah yes right they did nothing and only that one thing you say because it is as you say, who needs any more proof than that
seems legit
and of course the strawman, can't leave that out

such levels of arguments, really convincing
i'm not even a brit and am not invested in their party but you're such a dumbass shittalking little faggot, what a joke you think that nonsense spouting is convincing
if anything it further shows me how right they are if the pseudo-commie opposition to them is this weak

if you have been doing it for literal decades and have had 0 political success from it and dont even consider the need to change your Praxis for the Unique situation of your Nation then yes you are a LARP

Show me the Political success of CPGB-ML over the last few decades

The Purpose of a Communist Party is to seize the opportunity from a Crisis of capitalism

Oh wow who would have thought
Can you show us anything promising CPGB-ML has done asides from the occasional May 1st march its whole existence?

ok. great arguments, epic win for the retarded people. convinced me.

studying, teaching, speeches, protests
just look it up
why would i have to make the effort when all you do is screech lies?

i don't even care enough to show you how pathetic and retarded you are on a party i don't even care much about, it's just interesting to see how you guys tick and are closet liberals that can't help but show it when actually pressed on it

so keep it up

Other Countries Communist Parties that have actual decent Praxis and Political theory backing it have been able to build up popular and Parliamentary support bases
If CPGB-ML's Praxis was as sound as you make out it should have been easy for them to follow this same path
Wrong guy

None of these Are mass actions that help build a workers movement
Study groups and teaching people about Marxism is well and good but a Political movement cant relegate itself to a Bookclub / Study group stage forever
In which they are always overshadowed by orgs with better optics

Its not about even disagreeing with their policy as i myself am a M-L but a simple recognition of the shit tier Optics and Praxis they employ and its inevitable failure

That's not the point, the point is that it basically functions as a book club. They haven't paid attention or adapted their strategies to suit Britain or the present day. That's how you become obsolete, its the slow rot of the party. Take for instance the Black Panthers, they were a successful marxist group in a first world urban setting, so successful in fact the CIA had to shut it down. Have they learned any lessons from them or adopted their strategies? No, like I said, the last 70 years didn't happen for them, they still think the working class is made up of burly steel workers and dock workers wearing suspenders, that's not what the working class is anymore in Britain.

WP are sound imo. Very close to joining them myself tbh. A good history but more importantly fucking brilliant policy and politics today.

IMAGINE MY SHOCK

Cool. Ive made my mind up, and I'm off Tuesday so I think I'll go register in person. Will be good to be part of an org.

Also remind3r fucking trots organised the largest protests in British history, the COG is currently employed in the Labour party office, the RMT is on the vergue of taking control of an entire national industry and the IWW & IWGB have just unionised uberdrivers: the fuck have CPGB ML done since 2000?

The link between the SDLP and Labour is effectively dead: Unite are trying to pressure Lavour to stand in Norn and the rumours are the SDLP are joiningnto join Finna fucking Fail. Add to that the SDLP leader wasnt in Liverpool this year, which is a pretty big sign.

Hey OP, I'm from Dublin and the reason you shouldn't join the Worker's Party is that they already had their chance and they blew it.

I don't have anything against them theory-wise and their history is very important, but the electorate obviously do not want to give them a second chance.
The current structure of the Party is flawed and is one of the main reasons why they collapsed in 1990.
They quite obviously haven't learned a thing, or else they would never have let Socialist Party become the largest anti-Capitalist party in Dublin during the Celtic Tiger. They've been stagnating for almost 30 years now.

Personally, I am a member of People Before Profit.
Their Party Structure is superior to that of Worker's Party, they have no historical baggage and they are the largest Party putting down the necessary framework towards the 32 County Socialist Republic.
In my opinion, only PBP can bring together the Working Classes of the CNR and PUL communities.
S-PBP is growing quickly and is opening up new branches across the island, you'll see this pay off in next year's Local Elections.

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PBP Poster here : you need to read this book, along with everybody else ITT
This book brings you up to the late 2000s, but they've done nothing of note since the Recession.

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BROKE:
SDLP
Provisional Sinn Fein
The Workers' Party

WOKE:
Saoradh
Irish Republican Socialist Party
Republican Sinn Fein
Communist Party of Ireland
Éirígí

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Will check out the literature, thanks a lot!

Hmm maybe I need to look more into what makes the workers party tick and how it's orginised. Im thinking of joining and evaluating how it's going in six months.
I like a lot of what PBP do and I think there is a lot of good people in it, esp in the north.
My issue with joining PBP is that, in the past, I've had some dealings with trot groups and it's been largely negative. I don't want to be a sectarian leftist and I'll happily support many of their policies, but I just don't think It would work out.
Thanks for the input and good luck.
Hope life in Dublin is good, I lived in crumlin for over a year and I miss it a lot. Well I miss the city not the rent. If your ever coming up north go past that bakery called bretzel where portabello meets the canal, they make the best bread you can get on the entire damn island. Start a thread on here and leave some stuff at a dead drop for me. :L

I've considered Saoradh in the past and I know a few members. While i understand the significance and tradition of the military style marches especially as a show of strength against loyalists and the state during the 20th century, im not convinced it's a way to convince people, especially protestants, nowadays. I think it's just counterproductive at the current moment. They have great party policies and ideology other than that though.

Sorry to keep this thread going, I'm just considering my options as I want to do something more than read. Ive been basically a drunken stereotype of a leftcom for the past few years while working in a shitty job.

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Mabye I'm being prejudice. I'll take the time I have off to evaluate the workers and PBP properly. PBPs internationalism is a big point in their favour.

R E V E R S E
C O L O N I A L I S M

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REMOVE CRUMPET // IRELAND STRONK

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They operate under a system called Democratic Centralism, this means that a tiny number of people are the ones making the decisions and low-level members have little individual input.
It is a system which failed in the Soviet Union, PRC, Vietnam, Cambodia and many other countries.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_centralism

I wouldn't get too hung up on it, PBP is nominally a Trot Party but it also a "Big Tent" Party which has members of many anti-Capitalist stripes. Eamonn McCann said as much himself.
Most new people who join the Party are just admirers of James Connolly and Lenin. I do not consider myself to be a Trot.

PBP's structure is superior to that of Worker's Party because each individual member has more of a say, there is less room for revisionism (ie: Eoghan Harris and Eamonn Smullen) or opportunists to infiltrate (ie: Eamonn Gilmore and Pat Rabbitte).

Fuck no, I've spent the past four months sleeping in homeless shelters. Beforehand I was living in Drimnagh, one street away from Crumlin. The Liberties area isn't nearly as bad as people say.
Thanks for the tip.

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Are you a burger?

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I understand democratic centralism well. i think it had a lot of pros as well as cons
Taking pSF for example (I mean fk em but bear with me here) it's been extremely useful in building their party and helped give an impression of unity and consistentcy to the broader electorate as well as keeping the dirty laundry in-house as much as is possiable.
M-L requires professional actors as a vanguard to lead reforms and produce the revolution, and democratic centralism does seem to meet this requirement.
However, your critisisms of this system do remind me of Cockshotts observation that mass proletarian democracy is not a just desirable, but an essential part of building a socialist state and how lack of it caused the change from socialism to technocracy which was undoubtedly a major factor in ending the Union. Also reminds me of Zizek saying the actions that were essential to safeguard the revolution in the short term ended up causing major instability in the long.
PBPs structure sounds interesting, I'm concerned about aspects of it though. I see what your saying about it preventing revionism right now, but if it's membership suddenly exploded to cover not just the far left, but libs and "soc-dems" their votes could weigh as much as someone who's actually read the literature. I've seen so many people in leftist movements who refuse to read and unironicly believe socialism=the government being really nice, the thought of them with ability to have a say in a party is disturbing (literally had friends tell me they joined alliance BECAUSE they are socialist) :/
I'm sorry to hear about the shitty housing situation. I ended up leaving Dublin because of the insane rent prices coupled with the herculean effort to actually convince an estate agent to grace you with the opportunity to rent a place. I was lucky to get that room in crumlin and it came after literally 3 solid months of driving up and down bel to dub 4/5 times a week. I moved back up because I could face looking then paying 4/5ths my salary in a dump. Belfast might be small and has a lot of problems, but at least rents not too bad. Also the traffic here doesn't give me road rage that can only be described as apoplexy.

That's not true at all.
PSF's leadership has always been in a highly volatile situation.
The prominent early 70s members of PSF (Ruairí Ó Brádaigh, Seán Mac Stíofáin, The Dark Hughes) were almost completely irrelevant by the late 70s.

Northern Command (Adams, McGuinness, Danny Morrison) effectively staged a coup and by 1986 disintegrated everything PSF was meant to stand for (Éire Nua, abstentionism, the Armed Struggle).
Look at how they've flip-flopped on so many issues since the Peace Process (EU, Corporation Tax, Socialism itself).

This is due to poor Party Leadership, which exemplified itself during the Abortion Referendum (Democratic Centralism demanded that all elected representatives take an anti-abortion stance, Mary-Lou instead took a Pro-Choice stance and PSF campaigned on this, a "Special Ard Fheis" was held directly after the Referendum where they decided to officially support Pro-Choice, TD Carol Nolan resigns from the Party).

In the past few years they have been shedding an alarming number of Councillors. A large part of this is due to Democratic Centralism, as individual Councillors are not allowed to own their own opinions. This definitely hurt them in the last election (Kildare North and Cork North-West in particular).

The sheer revisionism they have exhibited over the past few decades shows just how reckless their Party Leadership is, and it could easily turn them into a Centrist Party (and if they go into coalition, they're finished). This same recklessness was highly apparent in the Worker's Party when Democratic Left broke away in 1990.

This is unlikely to happen as the "centre-left" already has ample options in PSF, SocDems, SDLP, Labour and the Greens.
They are simply not attracted to PBP (even with Gino Kenny pushing for Medicinal Marijuana and Bríd Smith proposing Environmentalist legislature). It is incredibly unlikely that the inherent Anti-Capitalist nature of the Party could be compromised in this fashion.

Another measure against revisionism is the fact that elected officials are only allowed take the Average Indisustrial Wage (I understand that PSF already has this policy but without Democratic Centralism, no PBP representative has to toe the Party Line).
Worker's Party did NOT have this policy back in the day (and it resulted in a splinter group in Waterford) and it is one of the main reasons for the 1990 split.

The voting public know what they're voting for. When they vote for PBP, they want an anti-Capitalist Party which is further to the Left of PSF.
Similarly, back in the 80s, they voted for WP because they were further to the Left of Labour (compare the Dún Laoghaire election results of 2016 and 1989).

In my opinion, the most important function of Irish Socialism at present is to build itself up at the local level. S-PBP are the only Party capable of achieving this on both sides of the border.

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They are Stalinists. Stalin was a right wing nationalist who murdered millions of actual communists.

Pick anything else.

The perfect Irish political party doesn't exis-

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what the fuck

?