Last minute convert

...

It took them what? 3 years?

The loss of the Soviet was horrendous in that battle even, when you realize the germans are outgunned, outstretched and out of supplies.

Sure, I'd love to abandon a dialectical materialist worldview to join a bunch of manchildren who base their ideology on memes, videogames and twitter screencaps. Where do I sign up?

It was Really more like two as by the time 45 rolled around Germany was effectivly already out of Commision Minus Seelow Heights and Berlin and the Immediate Area surrounding it
Loses in this Particular battle were not the defining feature
Kursk was literally the Wermachts last hail Mary to achieve a total victory in the east

Even the Generals themselves would basically admit later that the war ended in Kursk

funny how you're totally missing the point of politics
teamwork is a necessity, not the original reason of joining on it
you've really bad reading comprehension, it explains why you're on the "retard team"

i got to know a few therapists, not even only those i had business with, and when the topic goes to politics they all attest to the same
right wingers have hardly any real convictions, they are just looking for companionship and their edgy shit talk is just trying to impress their fellow retards
when they go seek therapy they break up into tears and just admit to all of it
same story every time, really
usually also daddy issues

No one who has actually read theory would ever move to the right since moving to the right inherently requires abandoning a scientific look at history and human civilization to one based on feelings and brain dead ritualistic feelings. Right wing ☭TANKIE☭s do not exist it's a contradictory term and Soviet ""conservative"" policies are so easily explained via dialectical materialism you'll have to an idiot to actually think the Soviets were conservative to women's rights,child leave,workers rights,disabled rights etc etc, if the USSR exists again it would be a progressive state since we have a much better understanding of human society no longer held back by outdated 50's scientific viewpoints. A ""right wing ☭TANKIE☭"" is a Nazi who fell for anti-Stalin propaganda and believes he was some form of Russian ethno-nationalist but likes larping as a Communist and adopts ZERO materialism into his world view and just likes to play in the ideology supermarket. Nazbol isn't a thing and feels do not >>> reals.

As much as right wing idiots love to sprout about science being on their side in truth they are the same as liberals and the immortal science of dialectical materialism is the truest form of science to happen to humanity. To stray from dialectical materialism is to stray from reason itself.

They're always driven entirely by emotions, especially if they're genuine and not just insincere shills and grifters doing it for their paymasters, and internally they even admit it to themselves that their driving force is feels > reals
research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/wilweg03.htm

good post
especially regarding the way right wingers like to hijack socialists like stalin as one of them because of shit like muh based conservatism
i actually saw a fascist youtuber who was endorsing thomas sankara because he "created a state for blacks without letting whites in"
comments was full of LARPers talking about how "sankara is the only marxist i like because he knew the importance of keeping your nation ethnically pure"
completely misinterpreing history because deep down they know that fascism never achieved anything besides a few failed states that lasted a decade or so, while socialism continues to exist 100 years on and has been practiced in nearly 1/3 of the world.

I've noticed that too. They also like to claim that DPRK is secretly fascist. It's kind of hilarious. There's not a single success story among fascist regimes, not a single fascist regime that came to power in a popular uprising. But these guys just can't stop their larping and maybe read something, so they desperately try to appropriate socialist regimes as "their guys".

You don't understand.
NazBols aren't Left or Right wing.
They are the ultimate centrists
A SYNTHESIS OF ALL POLITICAL THROUGHOUT ALL OF HISTORY

Attached: c41d9688765d279c2000a153e96c11085512e35f1a6846795ea9756888436d9f.png (2045x1215 1.84 MB, 151.57K)

They have an inferiority complex because almost no fascist regime rose to power without applying Marx's theories of sociology and politics (without the egalitarian and economic parts, obviously), so they're desperate to pretend like those were actually their inventions and actually communists are fascists, too.

Stay away from any right wing community faggot. The last thing we need is commie concern trolls.

Is this the famed fascist projection?

It's called a fascist.

Op here, it seems most of the right wing ☭TANKIE☭s have left the board.

Oh well, perhaps I was a bit late.

So 2.5 half a year? Does not sound easy considering the nazis have run out of steam.

And loss of the Soviet was the defining feature of Kursk, the germans inflict maximum damage with limited equipment.

At their furthest point the nazis barely reached into 1/6th of Russia and 1/10th of the Soviet Republics. The Battle of Kursk had the Germans hurring to throw in all the latest versions of their tanks at older soviet tanks. The soviet loss rate, both in hte war and in the battle of kursk was barely higher, witth ration being 1.5:1 in almost all losses.
The damage they achieved was, at best, equivalent to denting a steel car bumper with a heavy kick, and just like in that situation they broek their "foot". They literally sacrifice thousands upon thousands and were left with nothing, and the Soviets simply regathered their surviving forces, most of which were whole, and counter-attacked, shattering the German front once and for all.

It's interesting that they considered materialism the last bastion against fascist ideology. One wonders what that means for the current "left" and its idealism in much of the West, since this left is largely inhabited by the petit-bourgeoisie and fascism is the ideology of the petit-bourgeoisie par excellence.

I think you are trying your best to damage control the Soviet forces here, but the win lost ratio (for tanks) in Kursk was Soviet 5: German 1.

I simply cannot ask for better among the germans, they truly did the best they could have given.

That kick just destroyed 5 steel cars, that's pretty grand.

Also, the Soviet used T-34 in this fight, so it's basically top of the line.

Attached: Battle of Kursk 2.png (398x955 84.63 KB, 48.26K)

The United States had insane kill ratios in Vietnam and Iraq but look how that turned out.

War is basically a big video game, where every individual soldier's score is based on his K:D ratio, and the sum of all points decides who won the war, right?

1) There were more soviet tanks, in terms of loss percentages the Germans lost about 2/3 of their armored forces, the Soviets only lost 1/4

2) the soviets had more people to lose in the first place. Not to mention that the majority of soviet tanks on the front at that time was a mix of medium and light tanks. While the Germans pulled together the biggest heavy and medium tanks they had and threw them at the soviets.

3) the T-34-85 had not yet reached high production numbers and did not participate in this battle, meaning that the Panthers, Elefants and Tigers outranged the soviet tanks.

No, fucking no. The T-34-76 was designed in 1938 and built in 1939. It outclassed all German tanks of 1941, but the Germans had the numbers advantage then (only a few hundred t-34s were produced by 1941). Later on T-34s become more numerous but
A) the Tiger and Panzer IV Ausf-F upgrade gave the Germans a way to fight them, (as well as the Panther later).
B) the majority of the soviet tank forces until id 1943 was LIGHT tanks, not medium or heavies. They also made up the majority of tank losses.

Also, most tank losses were not tank-tank but a mix of anti-tank guns, mines, artillery and attacking aircraft.

Lastly English wikipedia is shit the numbers in Russian wikipedia are different as is German wikipedia, check 'em

Attached: cry harder nazi.jpg (816x684, 146.15K)

1. The Soviet lost 6000 tanks+assault guns/8000 tanks totally fielded, the germans only lost 760/3000 tanks, that's not quite the percentage you were saying.
2. T-34 was top the line for the ruskies at the time, the fact they are inferior to Panther/Tiger is not a matter of discussion.
3. I see no Deustch number, the Ruskie and English Wikipedia share similar number.

I just wonder why you act so defensive considering the almost miracle casualties the germans inflect on the ruskies, even when they are assaulting with LESSER numbers, in enemy territory, with new recruits and supplies dwindling.

But we are discussing on the tactical progress of the germans, despite strategic loss.

Can't you accept the germans are superior DESPITE their lesser number.

No it wasn't, by 1943 it was outdated.
except it is, or are you saying that a T-55 is equivalent to a T-64?
I'm not even going to comment on that load
False. In 1943 the German army did not have the front broken and had a steady supply line. They amassed the biggest, and most elite units they had and focused it on ONE point in the front, while the Soviets were defending a massive line that eclipsed the actual parameters of that Battle. Not to mention as I said before, most tank losses were not tank v tank, and the Soviet airforce was only regaining control in 1943. Being the attackers the Germans had the advantage of first strike, meaning they inflicted the first casualties.
Because tactical and strategic details don't matter, only context-less numbers

Attached: wikipedia - instead of a brain.jpg (623x815, 76.25K)

Let's get some facts right here:
- The T34 was not oudated by 1943, it was constantly improved upon even by the end of the war
- T34 was only one third of the tank configuration of the Soviet at Kursk, and it was mixed in heavy configuration, with support of assault guns
- By 1943, even as you said, this was the Nazi's Hail Mary, they ARE already running of supplies, their tank manufacturing already has problems, their pilots are newly fresh of schools AND even their tanks have problems (panther)
The battle has two phases, and even in the Soviet counter-offensive, they still lose more.
False, number and logistics and terrain all favor the Soviet, even troop experience, the fact the germans managed to inflict that 5vs1 casualties are nothing short of a miracle.

And also, I checked the ruskies wikipedia, they have the same stats i.e. 6060 tanks and assault guns lost by the Soviet.

Any other comment?

upvoted

It was, upgrades or not, it was outclassed in most parameters compared to the Panther and Panzer IV Ausf G. The 85mm version hadn't hit the front yet.

The T-34 did not make up the majority of tanks at Kursk, Light tanks like the T-70 did, along side Self-propelled artillery, which are not ideal in tank-tank combat. The KV-1(S) was outclassed by the newer Tiger-1 and was far lighter, (on the same weight range as the Panther). It was in even fewer numbers than the T-34 relative to the Kursk front.
Yes, that's not a lot of tanks considering that these were spread out across the front line and also at varying depths of the front line, thus meaning that at any one time the Germans outnumbered the initial soviet tank forces they went up against.
Yes and they spent many months preparing the supplies, tanks and forces to do so, They gathered all their best forces into one place. Comparing that to the average defensive line is a fallacy
No, the majority of crews that operated on the Eastern front were experienced ones, the newbies and near-cripples were left in the West, lounging in France until Rommel decided to fortify the beaches last-minute.
yes, the German had the first strike advantage, meaning they had the opportunity to inflict greater damage even if the attack fails. More-over, unlike an attack, a counter-attack means not only stopping an attack, but also pushing them back, even as they dig their heels in every step of the way. It's like pushing a boulder down a hill compared to pushing it up a hill.
Only by direct comparison ignoring the fact that they had to spread wider than the actual German attack to prevent flanking.
Hardly relevant, the Germans had at least 2 months to prepare, they had all their supplies ready and waiting.
A flat steppe is a favor for the soviets, whose main tanks at the moment lack the penetrative range of the 88.. gun and 75mm high velocity guns on the German tanks… ok
It wasn't 5v1 you're exaggerating. Even 4v1 is a stretch
Nice lie, except that it states that Soviet overall Armored forces were approximately 3,400 tanks and 1,500 reserve tanks
That isn't 6000 tanks all together it's missing a good 100, and here is why.. soviet and German loss counting methods are DIFFERENT YOU MORON

tankarchives.blogspot.com/2013/07/cheating-at-statistics-part-3.html

tankarchives.blogspot.com/2016/10/on-german-losses.html

I like how this faggot is trying to damage control.
And there were only 200 panthers and 400 Panzer IV, and only 184 panthers can join the battle because the rest malfunctioned.
The fuck do you mean? It was about 7000-8000 tanks deployed in total, or was the Soviet so dumb that they didn't jump into gear as the German penetrated their lines.
Zhukov KNEW the germans are gonna attack, and Stalin was preparing for it. Deploying about 3000 tanks with reinforcement of 5000 tanks aren't just "average defensive line". Meanwhile, the germans only attacked with 3000 or less.
Also historically wrong:
Again, this is excuse, the counter-attack is when the first wave of germans have routed, per actual combat strategy, this is the part when you make the casualties while the enemy is in disarry. Yet, the Soviet counter-attack only pushes the enemy back, while inflicting minimum casualties to the attacker.
Duh, so somehow the Soviet is in disadvantage because the germans can spearhead, never mind that a single thrust is easily blunted by superior number of the Soviet.
Again, it doesn't matter how many times they prepare, they didn't have enough tanks, supply, and even their tanks end up breaking BEFORE the assault.
A flat steppe is a direct favor for the soviets, who have superior number and can overwhelm the germans, who are coming RIGHT up to them, retard.
Wrong. There were different waves, it's about 8000 tanks in total.
6060 is tank number counted with assault guns, the pure tank number is about 3000-4000. This correlates to both English wikipedia and Russia wikipedia, and has nothing to do with the German way of counting loss.

Attached: Kursk number of tank.png (1673x424, 44.25K)

…are you saying fascists/natsοcs are socialists, or that ☭TANKIE☭s aren't?