It is very interesting that leftists in Russia are mostly anti-Idpol. You will never hear them talking about homophobia/transphobia/ableism/white privilege. They even make jokes about western leftists!
They consider IdPol and intersectionalism as "liberal and individualistic", "breaking unity of workers" and "having nothing to do with class struggle".
Why it is completely different with the leftists in the western countries?
because the west is fucking infested with liberalism
barely any revolutionary potential
Probably one reason is that gay propaganda is illegal in Russia.
I'm surprised since Russians aren't white.
Good
Material conditions and cultural attitudes in Russia are different from in the west. I'd be interested in how copying the Russian approach works in the west but I suspect it may not work as well since porky can try to undermine such a movement with the idpol card much like how even mild socdem Corbyn is being attacked with antisemetism claims. On the other hand, if porky pulls this trick enough times maybe the general population will wisen up to it.
Becasue 99% of the time those "leftists" in western countries aren't actually leftists and will side with full-blown liberals rather than something that is even remotely socialist. It's cooption of the left by the liberal establishment.
They aren't anti-idpol as much as they are anti-LGBTBBQ (and garbage like "white privilege" is almost exclusively a burger thing). Bias still permeates the Russian left. In particular a lot of Russian nationalists are left wing because they idolize the Soviet Union for making their country a superpower.
Yeah too fucking bad our left is almost non-existent, there is hardcore nationalist idpol instead of SJW idpol poisoning the well, and even groups like Left Front do nothing but weaksauce protests. But at least they don't like faggots eh? I spent weeks trying to find anything like a Marxist study group in my area and all I could find on the net is either vague anti-Putin agitation or NazBol crap. I would rather have a Western style socialist party around that has idpol but manages to organize and educate.
Complaining about idpol is waste of time time at best and alienating people at worst. Best option is to be best leftist you can be and ignore it while focusing on whats matter.
Material conditions are different in different cities let alone states or countries.
I painfully admit that this is true.
t.
What has happened since the pension reform?
It's true though? No clue what you are trying to say here.
Pension age raised 5 years for both men and women.
I am not SWJ per see.
I just noticed that wealthier nations usually have legalized gay marriage and things like that, so in my brain bad conservatism=poverty. For this reason I believe in don't as don't tell.
Also, feminism is necessary for women because of backwards laws like legal wife beating. Again, caused by poverty. Person is poor, so he drinks. Drunk he beats his wife.
Also comrade Sergei Udaltsov was arrested.
Nice argument retard. LOL BASED RUSSIAN LEFTISTS ARE MAKING JOKES ABOUT WESTERN SJWS as if we don't have more pressing issues here than feminist queefs from two continents away.
More protests, more arrests, nothing new.
They are frequently unironically nazbol. And Bolshevism sometimes for them is almost same thing for them that was socialism for nazis.
I was just thinking this. I mean isn't Russia the birthplace of Nazbol?
They are not *that* far right, so they are not nazbol.
Yes, but it's here just as meme as in the west.
There is one exception, thought.
en.wikipedia.org
No, it was Germany, when after Treaty of Versailles many leftists there claimed that the treaty de facto turned Germany into a Colony of the Entente, and allied with German Nationalists to fight this “Imperialism.” Also in the 1848 leftists allied with Pan-Germany Nationalists to create a unified pan-germany Socialist Republic.
BASED RUSSIA MAKING LEFTISM GREAT AGAIN
hmm.jpg
Anyone who classifies themselves using the term "cisgender" is by default a faggot.
Yes, but it is a LIVING meme in Russia.
Kys
Yes, there are these "national-stalinists" and "monarcho-stalinists". But they are viewed as freaks by leftists.
...
yeah it's illegal, too bad it's fucking nonexistant.
get over it, this board is for Zig Forumsyps who got bored of boomerposting, not for genuine leftist discussion.
So you’re saying you had an opportunity to join legit actual Nazbol GANG and you turned it down? Do you know where you are?
One day I will literally join Other Russia to meme on leftypol, then kill myself
sounds russian enough to me
I don't think we should be taking she's on social issues from the Russians.
And what's wrong with national bolshevism?
thats fucking bullshit. hope is lost
idpol rises when ethno and cultural heterogeneity increases
don't want idpol move to an ethnostate
And for morons who have no idea what "leftism" is, it seems from your post. Being gay isn't itself idpol, but questioning gay as an identity, like questioning any other identity, is correct from a left perspective. Certainly being attracted to men isn't an identity, but conflating that with the modern day idea of "gay" and all the cultural myths ascribed to it can result in identitarianism.
Nothing. They just dont know what national bolshevism is. And many of them think, that it is just a meme.
Meme nazbolism is better than actual nazbolism
He is not our comrade. He is fucking liberal idiot.
How come?
He's correct though.
Because he doesn’t want to kill everyone who likes Burgerland.
Yeah but Russian Leftists aren't just "Anti-Idpol" as to say they believe class and material / economic issues should come first but are literally socially reactionary
The KPRF for instance Dosent just "not talk about" LGBT issues but is openly reactionary towards LGBT workers and supports the continued discrimination against them by Putin and UR
Yep. Lol, good luck finding anything like that in Murica.
t. started using imageboards in 2018
Ethnostates are idpol you fucking idiot
Yes unfortunately so much of Zig Forums thinks social Reactionaryism is anti-ipol
That's correct, but much like a fish doesn't notice water, people in homogenous polities aren't concerned with idpol (I mean, ethnicity and race related idpol ofc). In reality, *all* politics, in practice, are idpol, but if you have diversity then it's clear that policies will affects groups differently and it becomes an explicit issue. That's basically what that user meant.
Yeah but you can’t spell “homogenous” without “homo”. Fag.
Russia has 'macho' prison culture, these leftists and 'communists' who unironically think that being gay is degenerate mental illness are a product of it.
Also Russian non-existent left is different in composure from the west where you have a continuum from center-left liberalism to hard left filled with activists, alcoholics, academics, philosophers, bohemian artists, i.e. everything to the left of liberal technocratic university. Zizek is popular on the west because he does exactly that, sits in the academia and shits on local liberals for years; nobody reads him here because no liberals in charge, his discourse is irrelevant.
The only sections of Russian left that resemble the cultural western left ('theory' reading plus trying to organize gay marches together with trade unions) are some trots (rsd, anticapitalist.ru) and anarchists of course, while the majority of the 'left' is some form of `stalinism` which means USSR/Russia patriotism plus nationalism backed with relevant quotes from Lenin/Marx/Stalin (Trotsky was an antirussian cosmpolitan jew so his quotes are not relevant) plus westernphobia (westernphobia is actually a part of everyone, everybody from prowestern liberals to nazis have their stories to tell why westerners are dummies) which consists of copying literally of everything that right-wingers in the west spread, if that sounds like NAZBOL to you, yes it is that.
Russia is a diverse state, a lot of different ethnic groups from the start (Slavs, Finno-Ugric people, Turks), also about 14% muslims.
Also IRL nazbols get misinterpreted all the time.
Original Nazbol party was a coalition of left-right forces against liberal reformers and 90-s liberal discourse, which consisted of USSR is ebil totalitarian gulag, only supported by old commie nomenklatura and nationalists-nazis, we need to privatize everything and join progressive europe plus disband our soviet empire give sovereignty to every republic etc. and nazbols were reappropriating all that ironically with losungs like stalin-beria-gulag and our MIGs will land in Riga (of independent Latvia). Also nazbols were unironically the first political activists of putin's russia executing direct action events like occupying government buildings, occupying putins party headquarters, occupying GAZ factory fighting workers redundancy, protesting against monetisation of benefits etc. Some of them were unironically killed by cops (or 'suicided').
The problem later was that putin's administration took all the NAZBOL ideology and integrated it during 2000s, transforming itself from liberal technocrats to 'healthy' conservative nationalists fighting for russian interests, so Limonov had to do a 180 and try to make a coalition with radlibs (The Other Russia, dissenters march) to fight Putin, which culminated in 2011 protests but they failed (Limonov blamed liberals who choose the wrong place for march) and led only to politics which we have now - a bunch of sheeps standing on police sanctioned meetings like Occupy idiots and handing flowers to the cops. Limonov had cognitive dissonances and made another one eighty to become 90-s nazbols once again (which now means supporting putins regime) and now sings dithyrambs to putin's actions in ukraine.
"anti-idpol" seems to be the new euphemism for gay bashing, racism and sexism
They aren't "anti-idpol" they're just reactionary as fuck when it comes to social issues, which is a kind of idpol in itself (just look at all the bullshit they spout about preserving russian culture).
Whats wrong with some social conservationism? It closer to what most proles think in most countries anyway, and if it unites the left in their country its good in my book.
this
not totally related to this guy's post but I lurked like a year ago, has the board gotten bigger or had a reddit influx? People seem way more proggie oriented here now where before the proggie element was apathetic and the cons spoke up
I agree with you user, but this board is brimming with pozzed faggots so you'll get shot down quickly.
There's nothing wrong with intersectionality; you'd be stupid and reactionary to say otherwise. The problem is its liberal incarnation, which treats identity like a commodity and whose "answers" serve only to empower capitalism. What the radical left ought to be doing is articulate intersectionality in such a way to divorce it from its liberal appropriation and reveal said appropriation as a complete sham.
"Intersectionality" refers to a specific ideology that quite intentionally does not put class at its center. That it was adopted by liberals was not an accident.
Fair. But I mean we all accept that perceptions of class, gender, etc affect how class manifests
*Perceptions of race
Yeah that's true but intersectionality is not just that, it's also putting class on the same level as race or gender which is defintely not true. If you want to be a Marxist, you have to accept that production and the way it is organized play a central role in society. Obviously, there is still a place for other issues (unlike in some retarded "muh idpol sperglords' minds).
Good posts
Socialism is first and foremost about economics.
The kind of values that develop thereafter should be organic not forced.
Ethnonationalism is literally a form of Idpol. Idpol doesn't cease being idpol because it focuses on a specific ethnic/gender group. There is very little practical difference between SJWs and white ethno-nationalists, aside from the *SPECIFIC* groups which they focus on. Both are far right wing reactionaries, and both are agents of fun and perversion.
The problem with Rus' is that kids are making videos like this
youtu.be
rather than this
I agree. It's just frustrating when idiots on here want to recent idpol in its entirety when like, c'mon, the reality of working class blacks is different than that of working class whites, and our failure to articulate a narrative that faces this while countering liberal narratives is depressing. The increasing appropriation of the black panthers by Liberals speaks to this failure.
Everyone has their own struggles. Some people even have hereditary defects that make it much more difficult for them to participate in society, despite still being fully capable of producing useful, even skilled work.
The point of rejecting identity politics is to deny that prejudice exists, it is about identity politics' failure to address it. Time and time again, all it has managed to do is get people with common interests to resent each other instead of working together.
Identifying with your biological sex and fucking people of the opposite sex is fucking gay dude.
I highly doubt that an LGBT movement in Russia is nonexistant.
And what about this?
youtu.be
youtu.be
youtu.be
youtu.be
Vulgar workerism. The conditions and attitudes of the working class(usually imposed on them) in all nations isn’t what we defend and promise to uphold, it is what we promise to along with those of the bourgeoisie, abolish. That is to say that although our sexual/social norms and beliefs ought to be different than those of the idpol liberals, it sure as hell also won’t be ‘actually reactionary’.
Social conservatism is reactionary, its just assholes forcing their spooks onto others. But throw a shit fit when those who dont follow imposed "norms" defend themselves, causing resentment and oppression.
And for what it's worth, the fact that a lot of Westerners who live in developed cities with global industries have a tendency toward social liberalism shouldn't surprise anyone. That's exactly what you should expect given the character of production and consumption in these places.
Likewise, if a bunch of farmers or industrial workers have actually reactionary views, then that shouldn't surprise anyone either – considering that they are working in industries which are tied to particular places. There is more of a suspicion of those "not from 'round here."
Yeah I remember hearing someone several years before this whole mess started say about cultural appropriation: the one white person you can't credibly accuse of cultural appropriation is a white nationalist. It's the logical conclusion of that kind of thinking.
Of course not. I don't know about social movements and so on but there are gay nightclubs in the big cities and everything. There are DJs from Russia who play on the international gay circuit party scene. I think the Russian government is not a fan of demonstrations (of any kind) but has a hands-off approach to the nightlife. It's probably a nightmare in the Caucasus though.
Incidentally, I remember watching Alexander Dugin on some Russian T.V. program being interviewed by this (conservative) pro-government host. And Dugin was going on about Western liberal rainbow totalitarianism being this big threat and the host got skeptical and replied "gays? Oh Mr. Dugin I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill on this one."
Most of them are above age, but it does give me age. Sad that ukrainian zapadnyk has million subscribers and cult like fallowing and these guys few dozen thousands.
Also while I mention it, my city in Texas has a gay rodeo association (the two guys pictured are members), a gay cowboy nightclub and the pride festival draws 40,000 people usually – a broad and multi-racial sector that is predominantly working class. I don't know how to do things in Russia and I don't offer advice but in the U.S. things are a lot different.
Okay last post and I'll stop gaying it up here. But I was down in the neighborhood last night and snapped this pic. Last week, the state (with its conservative government) put up a historical marker at the site of one of the first gay bars in the great state of Texas. Isn't that nice?
Of course if Zig Forums is reading this I'm sure they are freaking out, and I hope they do, and I'll warn them that any attempt to vandalize our beloved marker is a state felony and there are cameras and security all along that block – and people are out late at night and some of them carry concealed handguns. A guy tried to rob a gay guy down there a few weeks ago but miscalculated and got shot because of his mistake.
So what does this have to do with the class struggle? Well… not a whole lot to be honest. But not everything does you know? And that's fine. There are other social and political struggles that happen in the world and you don't need to get all bent out of shape by it. It is a problem when milquetoast liberals use LGBT people, or people of color and so on as a shield to prevent economic change. But some harebrained attempt to become reactionary on social issues as a way to (insincerely I might add) win over social conservatives to our cause is doomed to fail.
Pretty fucking disgusting there.
That sure is one gay ass cowboy.
I don't get it, why is it nice?
Is there a place where they celebrate people for being straight?
Welp, literally protected by the State.
There's actually a song about this called "Cowboys Are Frequently, Secretly Fond Of Each Other" which Willie Nelson covered: youtube.com
Burnt Reynolds, Zig Forums macho man, was in the video as well. My favorite line is "What did you think all them saddles and boots was about?" Another good one is: "Well, a cowboy may brag about things that he's done with his women, but the ones who brag the loudest are the ones that are most likely queer."
That's right muchacho. It's literally state property.
C'mon user. Its kind of a big deal to go from being a persecuted class to finally having your unions recognised by the state. But knowing better, those are on a thin string and is tantamount to shaky promise. Which is why defending it is important, never trust the state, knowing capitalism it was just another audience to sell too.
So what you're saying is: "Homosexuals need to be beaten to death in the city, suburbs, and rural areas? Thanks much to you comrade!
I live in a suburb and am armed, so if you're in the metroplex hit me up and say it to my face mary
Even if…I decided to beat you up, it would only be because you and your false morals are wrong. Besides, you don't just bust into somebodies domicile; it requires a bit of finesse and leverage here and there. Look upon thyself and repent…that is all I was going for.
I appreciate that.
It’s very active in Siberian Prisons
The problem is that this rural-urban divide makes braud working-class organization very hard here. As well as Industrial Unionism hard because America’s Industrial Laborers are some of the most reactionary in the country. How do we fix this?
Unlike America where opposition to LGBT is based on religion, Russian homophobia stems from prison culture, particularly the "rooster" prison bitch role where low-status prisoners are forced to pretend they are women and sexually service mobsters. It's not a working class thing, it's a thoroughly lumpen phenomenon. Obviously 90s are to blame when prison population grew by orders of magnitude and Russia became a mafia state where crime and prison life are praised and romanticized, but this culture was shaped earlier in Soviet "colonies". What I am saying is that we should have never abolished the Gulags because they forced prisoners to work and proletarianize instead of sitting around in cells inventing degenerate gang practices and becoming reactionary (there were people who WILLINGLY went to gulag for rehabilitative labor, meanwhile in Brezhnevite times anti-communist views and even Nazi larping started becoming very popular among prison gangs)
GULAGS ARE PRO-LGBT
how is idpol bad? I think that our primary goal should be to dismantle capitalism and the state but racism does exist and it would be nice if it didn't
Idpol is bad because it is a distraction from the class struggle, or outright denies the importance of class struggle.
anti-racism is not idpol.
I don't think it does so inherently, I think it is being weaponized by the state and capital in order to distract from class struggle. Like I said I agree that class struggle is paramount but don't see why it should be our only objective