Magyar fonál

...

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Its claimed in a book by Pacepa, a Romanian General who defected to the US in 1978 and has since worked for CIA and consistently shills anti-communism. Make of that what you will.

What do you think?

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ismail gave some context to it a while back

"The quote comes from Ion Pacepa, a former Securitate official and Ceaușescu advisor who defected to the West His memoir ("Red Horizons") contains unverifiable claims.

Among those is that quote which Pacepa supposedly heard in the context of a meeting between Ceaușescu and Arafat:

Assuming for a moment that it's real, it's a joke Ceaușescu told Arafat.

For good measure, Pacepa also claimed Arafat had gay sex with other PLO members. He seems like the type of defector who made a living (and still does) off of speaking about his "expertise" and "revelations" as to the nefariousness of the East as against the innate goodness of the West.

Similar to how Yuri Bezmenov told conservatives that the Soviet Union's grand strategy to defeat American imperialism was to utilize "useful idiots" like Jane Fonda and Ted Kennedy to "demoralize" America from within."

ÉLŐ itt: mediaklikk.hu/duna-elo

Holy fuck, if it's true that is easily the only reedemable part of Ceauceşcu, that bantz though.

i think he get's too bad of a rap to be honest.
he wasn't the worst (that goes to Pol Pot), and Romania was still leagues better under him that it is now.

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reminder
youtube.com/watch?v=O8VQHTPZquA

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So another question
Do you have the typical oldfags and other people on youtube that say how good things were
In general what do your edgy teens follow..

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Orbán starts

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Well, it's over. TL;DR:

Next up: liberals, greens, socdems will call Orbán a communist and will pray to the EU to save their souls.

The spectacle of eastern european post-soviet politics is amazing in how perfectly applicable the opening section of the manifesto is to it.
There are no communist parties but every party accuses every other party of being commies/commie-nazis

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Real communist parties? None, I give you that. In Hungary we have 3 in name only communist parties: one, whose whole repertoire is USSR nostalgia and pushing the Orbán line on migrants and Russian investments, a second one, that has a 80% fake membership of pensioners just there for a show so they can get moneys from their friendly euro-communists "allies", and a third one, created and funded by the socdem party as a honeypot to funnel in activists and young people back to the big "anti-orban" goal.

Kuruc.info and Zig Forums
It's pretty fucking cringey, when I saw our fashies appropriating their memes from the latter.
Magyarchan also has a board for politics, but aside from a few stormfags, it's primarily dominated by """boomer""" Fideszcucks in their 20s/30s.
Kuruc.info has to be the most popular far right platform, so I have no doubts they're lurked by a lot of the edgy underage (I definitely have, when I was 14).

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lmao

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So, apparently Jobbik is doing a little riot @ the building of the state tv. Anyone got a live feed?

Extreme right chanting "ÁVH, ÁVH!" (the State Protection Authority under communism). Again, in Hungary everything is "communism" for the ruling party, the extreme right opposition, and for the liberals, socdems, and greens.

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Do your fascists have a soft spot for socialist Hungary because it was "authoritarian"? Like how Russian nationalists fetishize Stalin for being "stronk dictator"

"Orbán, GTFO!"
"You are all communists!"
index.indavideo.hu/video/Jobbik_tuntetes_a_MTVA-szekhaznal

Yeah, kinda.

"At least then we had order" on the one hand, and "fucking ÁVH!" (the very authoritarian agency under communism "doing" that order) on the other. Usual right wing double think.

"Soros, migrants, Brussels, shitty TVs - we don't want any of these!"
youtube.com/watch?v=Ys1O8ysCvUQ
& at the end somebody tries to convinve people to topple that big plastic TV logo. Maybe an agent provocateur.

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Mikor lesz magyar balos képtábla?

Mikor lesz inkább magyar kommunista képtábla?

t. Magyar "nem írjuk alá a klímatörvényt mert az rosszat tenne a német járműiparnak" Kormány

t. magyar "kormány"

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Az már van: magyarchan.net/p

hát akkor faszért nem használjuk, bazdmeg?

ez nem is kommunista, buta user

Ja, szószűrő, bocsi

Not really related to anything, but would you guys say Hungarian is difficult to learn? It's such a fascinating language

There was one joke that was told in the Eastern Bloc

I wish MSZP was actually socdem. I really wish.

Yep, very dificult, but pretty bootifull: youtube.com/watch?v=uOQki1JFNRs

I bet you can find intro material for English speakers.

Mi a véleménye Anonnak az 56-ról? Forradalom vagy ellenforradalom? Jó dolog volt-e Hruscsov beavatkozása? Mi történt volna Magyarországon ha a szovjetek nem küldik be a tankokat?

It was a gigantic mess with both revolutionary and counter revolutionary elements. The progressive factions wanted an end to Soviet troops in the country, an end to Soviet interference in Hungarian internal affairs, trials for people associated with Rakosi era repression, multi-party elections, freedom of the press, and neutrality on the Austrian pattern, while maintaining the socialist mode of production. The reactionary elements wanted all those things plus shilling for NATO and with a return to capitalism instead of maintaining socialism. The key problem is determining which of these elements had real control of the country. Imo while there was a danger of counter revolution, the progressive revolutionaries were firmly in the majority. The reactionaries lacked any real organization, and at most were able to accomplish sporadic acts of violence. There was no command structure, no political platform, etc, just a bunch of reactionary thugs taking advantage of the chaos. The progressives on the other hand were organized into the workers councils and represented in the government through the communist and social democratic parties. Almost all the worker's councils and all of the parties in Nagy's government agreed on maintaining the socialist mode of production, and even the right leaning parties like the Smallholders thought that a return to capitalism was effectively impossible since the workers would never accept the factories being taken away from them.

The Soviets intervened for two main reasons: first, they didn't want to risk Nagy loosing control of the situation to the rightists. I don't think that this would have happened, since the reactionaries weren't really organized, and the vast majority of the insurgents and security forces supported the new government. It would have just been a matter of mopping them up and restoring order. However the Russians weren't willing to risk it. The second reason was that the Soviets saw Hungary as too strategically important in the context of a potential war with NATO. They weren't willing to tolerate the military setback that would result from Hungary leaving the Warsaw Pact.

TLDR: It was mainly a genuine revolution with sporadic, disorganized reactionary elements. Kruschev's intervention was bad and only happened because the Soviets were more concerned with their strategic interests than the principles of socialism.

Magyar: merce.hu/2018/10/23/tgm-magyarorszag-1956-a-szocialista-forradalom/ (úgy nagyjából)

English: isj.org.uk/hungary-1956-a-socialist-revolution/ (more or less)

Reminder that 56 was a reactionary Counter-Revolutionary incident that would have led to the diseatablishment of socialism in Hungary at a much earlier date

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Reminder that the only counter-revolution was the one that sent tanks to crush workers councils demanding genuine socialism and proletarian democracy.

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They literally didn't though. All of the parties in Nagy's coalition government agreed on maintaining a socialist economy.

Workers councils are not inherently socialistic and can be counter revolutionary such as in the case of the Councils dominated by the Menshevik faction of the SDLP and the SR-Party which had both blatantly expressed a desire to maintain capitalism

A similar situation would also arise in Poland in the 80s where reactionaries used unions to sabotage a socialist goverment
The situation would have developed similarly in Hungary if Kadar's goverment had not prevented the counter-Revolution from flying into full swing

Sure they can, but these ones weren't. The majority of their demands were for an end to Soviet involvement in Hungarian affairs, and for greater political and democratic freedoms. Neither of which are counter revolutionary, and on the contrary they on numerous occasions affirmed their commitment to socialism.
Nice ahistorical speculation fam.

The "small landholders party" (I forget the proper English translation) and other Liberal parties while agreeing to a political alliance with Nagy's Social-Democratic faction of the party had the explicit aim in their party manifesto of maintaining private property and in effect capitalism
The "Small landholders party" explicitly existed to safeguard the agrarian holdings of Kulaks and other Petite-Boug agrarians

This would have inevitably led to a Counter-Revolution in Hungary because of the political situation in Europe at the time
As did eventually happen in 1989 after Gorbachev essentially announced that he wouldn't defend the WP states from Counter-Revolution by shaking hands with Kohl

First off, don't apply modern political terminology to 1956. Nagy's party was the communist party, and the social democrats were a separate party that would be called demsoc by today's standards. They were anti-capitalist and expressed a firm committment to maintaining socialism.
No they didn't, they literally said the opposite, and the leader of the Smallholders later said that a return to capitalism was impossible.
They were agrarian libs yes, but they were not pushing for any rightist reform in Nagy's government and they were outnumbered by the communists and social democrats.

More ahistorcial speculation. This statement can't be proven one way or the other.

no
Authoritarian regimes are bad, when they're "judeo-bolshevists".

Egyszer nem láttam olyan jobbert, aki ne panaszkodott volna a Kádár-rendszerről és ne vitatta volna el annak bármi érdemét.
De tényleg.

...

While Nagy's party itself was the Communist party of Hungary yes the faction that controlled the goverment and the party after the disposition of Rakosi was a Social-Democratic / DemocraticSocialist which had a much different vision of socialism then the M-L faction of the party
After the risk of Counter Revolution became Obvious Kadar and the other members of the Communist party who became aware of this threat fled to Czechoslovakia and formed a new socialist party which eventually managed to restore order
The idea that they should have even been allowed to operate within a socialist DotP is idiotic even if in a minority position within goverment
Much like 89 56 saw multiple Anti-Socialist uprisings in states such as Poland and the DDR along with Hungary
All that it took in 89 to begin a chain reaction was the collapse of the PWPR in Poland to the Reactionary Solidarity
It is safe to assume that if a capitalist restoration had occurred in Hungary it would have caused a similar chain reaction of "Neutral Socialists" throughout the WP

Kuruc infó és Thürmer EchoTV szereplések komment szekcióiban igen gyakran találsz. Általában 40+ jobberek tolják a nosztalgiát, míg a fiatalok már a kapitalizmus könyvéből tanulva fújják kívülről a "nagy egyenlítősdi" (és hasonló marhaságok) kritikai pótanyagát.

Egyik kedvencem kurucról: "hát igen, ugye zsidók vitték a kommunizmust, de ezek patrióta zsidók voltak [feltételezhető Drábik hatás], ezért nem volt annyira szar mint most, amikor cionista zsidók vették át a stafétabotot!"

ha lesz rá igény.
Kellő mennyiségű (You) után, én akár neki is állok.

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The article that you yourself links admit and to quote…
It admits that if Hungary had continued down this course then a Social-Democratic takeover of the goverment was essentially inevitable thus giving it the counter revolutionary character I describe it with
This is misleading as it ignores the fact the Hungarian goverment had already made its intentions of exiting the Warsaw Pact and tacitly allying with NATO clear prior the assault
Which as I have already have stated would have led to a counter revolution rather quickly

kurvagyorsan álljál neki (Juh)

...

(Juh)

Even if we assume that the revolution itself was genuine and not Counter-Revolutionary
Do you genuinely believe that the NATO would have allowed a virtually defenceless socialist state to exist in the middle of Europe and not just coup / Color revolution it instantly to punch a whole in the iron curtain

That's not what happened. The Hungarian Worker's Party reformed into the Hungarian Socialist Worker's Party after the Social Democrats separated from them, since the original HWP was technically a Communist-Social Democrat coalition. It was also used as an opportunity to purge people associated with Rakosi (who was disliked by everyone, including the Soviets). However this happened before Kadar fled, Nagy was literally a member of the HSWP.
I would agree, and so did a lot of the worker's councils who specifically said that only authentically socialist parties should be allowed to participate in politics. However a few libs in the cabinet is not the same thing as a full on counterrevolution.
No it isn't "safe to assume" this, since its unfalsifiable ahistorical speculation. It also assumes that the unrest in Hungary was of the same character as that which took place in the 80s. Even the "Anti-socialist" urpisings of which you speak were nothing of the sort. In Poland for example the striking workers were literally just asking for better working conditions and lower prices for staple goods.

I don't doubt that they would have tried to worm their way into it, but if Yugoslavia and Albania could maintain their independence without Soviet troops on their soil then so could Hungary.

8ch.net/voros/index.html
a többit rátok bízom
azért legalább egy hetet éljen meg

De én fekete vagyok

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Kadar's Hungary was one of the more "successful" socialist states of the Eastern bloc
during the 80s when Poland Romania Bulgaria and Albania's economies had all completely stagnated Hungary was one of the only Nations in Eastern Europe still showing signs of both economic growth and a improvement in standard of living
Hungary's economy alone easily outmatched most of its contemporaries (Poland Romania Bulgaria Albania) and was dwarfed only by the DDR Czechoslovakia and the USSR itself

Though it was not perfect and ultimately did fail because of a number of factors both internal and external (Such as Gorbi's Meddling / Kadar's Collaboration with SocialDemocrats / Kadar's Personality cult etc)

Despite the fact that I support the 1956 revolution I have to admit that Kádár did a pretty good job.

nem vagyunk ahhoz elegen testem

azt úgy mondják: sötét

liberók birtokolva

a robbanós létező fenomena egyáltalán Magyarországon?

ja, csak nálunk Ratkó-kölyköknek híjják

miben különb/hasonb a ratkó a boomerhő?

hasonló:
különb:
A boomer békés jószág. Max családi összejövetelekkor elpanaszolja magát és nosztalgiázik a régi szép időkön.
A Ratkó-gyerkőc jelen van szinte minden nemzeti ünnepélyen és pártrendezvényen (Fidesz, MSZP, DK).
Ünnepélyeken, karhatalmistákat megszégyenítő módon lép fel a rendbontó "vörös liberálisok" (amennyiben az éppen regnáló kormány Fideszes), illetve a "fasiszták" ellen (DK, MSZP).

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Ez most lehet kínos de miért Ratkó?

Maybe this would be better for the QTDDTOT thread but if Krushcev sent tanks to stop the 1956 uprising what would've Stalin done?

...

Probably the same thing, in fact he probably would have done it even earlier.

Same thing (it was unanimous agreement that uprising needs to be suppressed, from Mao to Tito), except he would not let situation develop to that level in the first place (partially, it was fostered by the liberalization, which created perception that counter-revolution could succeed; partially, by widdly-waddlying with economic reforms in 1953-56, which caused quite a bit of inefficiency and did not create enough support for Planned economy among the population; partially by having Nagy deliberately or not support sabotage suppression of uprising).

As for after the uprising, he would not place Kadar in charge, nor forcefully exile Rakosi and suppress hardline Communists.

Which parties did you list?

at this point I wish anybody was fucking socdem
DK is the closest thing we have to a proper socdem party but that shit has Gyurcsány all over it so I ain't touching it.

*ellálja az utad*

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Question: What happened to 4k? What kind of party forms, then just dissolves saying "we can't legitimise the establishment, maaann".

In Hungary before 1989, Social Democrats are anti-capitalist Marxists.

How are things in Hungary? How strong is the left? Is socialist party recovering? Is Őszöd speech still remembered?

non-existent
no, but it's for the best. MSZP should just fucking die already.
absolutely

very bad

Pretty sure Tito opposed the intervention since Nagy and his cabinet initially hid out at the Yugoslavian embassy.

Eddig nem nagyon ismertem az úriembert de a most olvasottak arra vezettek, hogy tisztelettel nézzek felé (félreértés ne essék, szavaimban nem rejlik egy csepp irónia se).

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*élesíti a guillotine pengéjét*