Can we please get a thread going to air our grievances with the Left wing of fascism, Social Democracy? I can't think of a "Leftist" movement that has let workers down more or capitulated as much to capitalism (except perhaps "Socialism with Chinese characteristics" which for all intents and purposes anyone who isn't retarded can just agree is neoliberalism) and is destined to let them down again as Social Democracy. I also feel that now that it is becoming popular again to package social democratic ideas as "Socialism" in the United States it is necessary for there to be a strong critique of it. I would like to note that I am not even against "critically supporting" certain social democrats outright, I'm actually a big Corbyn and Melenchon fan, but I just think we need to be careful not to allow it to gain a monopoly on the resurgent interest in Leftism among young people and the working class and I especially think we shouldn't allow uncritical discussion of Social Democracy here, as at the end of the day it is just liberalism no matter what "usefulness" it might have for 21st Century Leftism in the short-term.
Therefore, please post Social Democrat/Red Liberal criticisms, cringeworthy pics and/or videos, or whatever else you want ITT. Anyone lurking who is an unironic Social Democrat feel free to defend yourself but please try to remain civil
The funniest part about it is that in the very next paragraph she references Infinite Jest being one of her favorite books. Like, it's classist and racist to expect you to read a few short classics of socialist literature like the Manifesto or Socialism: Utopian and Scientific because "muh mother speak no english" but then you have the ability and time to read 1,000 + pages of literal liberal navel gazing PoMo bullshit
So fucking true. Sometimes I hate socdems more than rightwingers
I legit don't understand this shit. I understand no american politician period would ever go "LMAO THAT NIGGA DEAD" at McCain but why even bother doing this shit?
Because Ocasio-Cortez and the majority of the other D/SA-backed Dems were never supposed to be a legitimate challenge to the Democratic establishment in the first place, just more sheepdogs. It's one reason I like Corbyn and Melenchon but kind of hate the D/SA and Sanders even though they work together a lot. The former at least give space in their respective Reformist movements for legitimate Marxists to organize the working class. The latter literally are only interested in sheepdogging petit-bourgeoise college kids and disillusioned PoC's back into the Democratic Party yet again. It's the Rainbow Coalition all over again
1) She literally said that in response to people expecting here to have done the bare minimum, which is read 3 or 4 10-30 page pamphlets. Also how condescending is it to say its "Classist" to expect people to read theory? You're basically saying lower-class people are too stupid to understand the basics of Marxism, which is absolutely retarded and further demonstrates her ignorance on the matter because Marx and Engels wrote the majority of their pamphlets (as did Lenin and the Bolsheviks) in easy-to-read prose and tried to keep it short so that the average working person could understand it.
At least revisionists like Richard D. Wolff don't literally think the working class is too stupid to "get" Marxism. But of course that isn't even why Ocasio-Cortez said that. She more than likely hasn't read any Marx or Engels, much less Lenin or anyone else, and thus gets offended when Socialists (actual Socialists not Red Liberals) question her about it and she doesn't know what to say
2)That quote doesn't mean "lol reading is for faggots" it's more a criticism of Leftcom type deviations of Marxism you fucking idiot
Jonathan Davis
I meant to add these to my post smh My point being if neoliberals support you at all, more than likely you aren't actually a threat
Anarkiddies (see Social Democrats who don't mind breaking shit) need to leave
Isaiah Johnson
Finally, someone else recognizes that trash for what it is. I was an English major for a few years, and one of my professors couldn't shut up about David Foster Wallace.
Jose Sanders
Yesss…..?
Benjamin Myers
The virgin ocasio-cortez vs the chad rosa luxembourg
I really don't see how anyone who knows better can read the first two pics and then still think D/SA is in anyway legitimately socialist and not just a fundamentally social democratic org with maybe 3 or 4 marxist chapters
Mason Reed
I thought DFW hated that kind of shit though
Sebastian Lee
Melechon had his office raided and the French are already turning their back against them. Shit sucks, but Europe is going to turn fash outside of maybe the UK and maybe the nordic nations. twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1055764731666071552
Kevin Wilson
So World War 2 will literally happen again?
Jackson Perez
Right now there are basically two options:
1) The half (probably the minority at this point) of the globalized bourgeois that exists under neoliberalism convinces "Leftist" reformists to capitulate as they did with Syriza on a global scale and thus halt the resurgent interest in Leftist organizing and politics that's sprung up among the youth and parts of the working class in Western 1st world countries
2) (In my opinion the much more likely option) The half of the global bourgeois that is fine with endorsing open and overt neofascism to stymie any Leftist checks on their accumulation of wealth whatsoever uses the countries that have already fallen to this system to go to war with whatever ones that haven't quite gotten there yet. In this mockup it would be something like the USA, Italy, and the former Eastern Bloc countries (along with a handful of Southern American nations) vs England, a divided France that could honestly go either way, and a divided Germany that more than likely would end up joining the fascist coalition after a time
Brandon Carter
France is insanely imperialist so this is not surprising. French workers need to feel the sting of true austerity before they will abandon feel good liberalism and class collaboration. Even then they probably won't go left though.. In the end the developed world will have to be put down by those they have exploited over the last 30 years.
Gavin Howard
Meanwhile in the 3rd world: *elect Borsalino*
Ethan Bailey
are you fucking stupid
Ian Sanders
Good luck with that shit.
Jose Myers
But it is, it is literally a 3rd world shithole.
Aiden Rodriguez
BRIC is second world. That's why the US is trying to knock them all over. Hell, it looks like they're trying to knock over their fellow first worlders in Europe too.
Jose Walker
My point was that right now they have a strong coalition of right-populists that would be favorable for a certain portion of the global bourgeois to invest in when the inevitable next global capitalist crisis hits
Henry Robinson
I am sure Brazil and India are literal third world.
Abysmal living standard.
Oliver Clark
In like Europe, but in America they are only liked by baby boomers and some Gen Xers. Italy is irrelevant to anything at all, and will most likely just turn into a bunch of third world factories for Merkel 2.0
Luke Wood
Who will be Merkel 2.0?
Josiah Green
Whatever forget about Italy then
You really think this isn't a big enough chunk of the populace for the global bourgeois to bet on them when combined with the massive appeal they have in Europe?
Nicholas Cruz
They were ascending, slower than China, but they started to inch up. Then some deals were made, Dilma was ejected by the CIA for a guy banned from holding office (in the middle of the Olympics no less) and this drunken nation is rattling its saber at China and Russia. Capitalism is just savage competition.
Jaxon Carter
Ascending into shitholes, maybe. Brazil and India do not get better, they get worse.
Same for China and Russia, but especially China.
People here doom & gloom about the USA, but massive instability in China is more likely.
Cameron Edwards
Not really, no. Who are they going to recruit soldiers from? The US is already having problems with getting enough troops to meet their quotas and Europe doesn't have much of a military at all. The global bourgeois isn't really prepared for capitalism to shit itself, even if the fascist parties believe they are.
Julian Diaz
Recruitment will be flowering as soon as fascists get into power.
David Martin
I don't believe the youth will be very enthusiastic about joining the military. Outside of maybe Italy or some shit.
John Thomas
No from shitholes. They've been shitholes since colonialism. They are no longer ascending though. The whole world is descending. Doom and gloom is everywhere. This economic setup is shit, and it's tired directly to the environmental mess.
this has got to be one of the best nazbol memes in months my sides
Matthew Richardson
I wrote a long rant, but decided to delete it and sum up everything in one sentence. Cortez should drop socialist label. Its offensive.
Benjamin Ramirez
Nordic nations are already fastist. Norway is polluting the earth with it's oil drills. Sweden (and Switzerland) are major weapon exporters. Denmark is polluting the earth with it's ship and energy industries. And this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Joseph Stewart
You know what? I would actually have respect for her if she did this. If she at least admitted she was someone who in Europe would be in the center of a social democratic party and not some radical I actually wouldn't mind her as much.
I would still be in disagreement with her and resent her trying to sheepdog disaffected Americans back into the liberal wing of our one-party capitalist state, but at least she wouldn't be further confusing proles about what the word "socialism" means
Probably the only living figure I can think of who I would seriously call an American Marxist is Michael Parenti.
Luke Lee
How to defuse defenses of democratic socialism in one sentence: "do you think capitalists would rather accept their property being collectivized or fire the first shot?"
Luis Rogers
They seem to have gotten a second wind from KYM mentioning "gang" memes. Apparently, nazbol might have been the very first such gang. Woke if true.
Juan Perry
FUCK
Someone needs to ask this to OC in an interview. I would laugh so hard
Nathaniel Ward
She'd probably just start talking about gun control
Jason Adams
it also seeks to revise class relations in the same way as the notion of the 1% does or how, in the UK at least, they like to pretend that class is just your accent
Dominic Rogers
This board really is just Zig Forums with a red coat of paint.
No wonder you faggots get so triggered by horseshoe theory.
"We did not resist, we did not throw hurdles into the way of the victorious political opponent", wrote the author. "The old ones (in the SPD leadership) are concerned about their fame. Like old, ridiculous actors or singers they never notice when the curtain has fallen."
"We were, and stayed, in all the full blood parliamentarians, that is, we talked about things, but they did, they mastered them. While concentration camps were already being built and many of our followers were shot dead we got into fierce struggle for seats." […] When the Not Socialists entered in 1932 on a ford with the Zentrum and thus won a majority in the Reichstag, Hoegner and his comrades considered it merely an "enjoyable game". It is true that the Social Democrats sensed that "a black and brown government was in the air," but they had no other idea than to "annoy our Zentrum colleagues with the song of the black-brown girl." […] On March 23, 1933, the SPD alone voted against the Enforcement Act, which gave the Hitler government an almost unlimited power of power. And when the SPD chairman, Otto Wels, had explained the reasons why his party had to refuse to approve this law, Hitler once again hurried to the podium, kicked off the SPD, and concluded, "You, gentlemen, are no longer needed I do not want you to vote for the Enabling Act, but Germany should be free, but not through you. " Hoegner: "That clapped and snapped like a whip on our heads, that fell like a fierce fire on us." Nevertheless, at the Reichstag meeting of May 17, 1933, the SPD, together with the Not Socialists, voted in favor of the program proclaimed by Hitler to remove the restrictions imposed on Germany by the Treaty of Versailles ("equality of Germany"), which caused astonishment […]
Chase Diaz
The last Reichstag meeting, to which Social Democrats were admitted, was "even more agonizing for many of us than our presence at the meeting of March 23, 1933. At the time we had expected to lose our lives in the worst case, but this time Some of us felt that we were losing our honor. " But when Hitler began his speech, the comrades experienced a surprise. The new chancellor avoided any attack on the SPD, even for the Nazi opponent Hoegner sounded the speech "extremely moderate": "A more gentle peace speech could not have been held by Stresemann." When Göring called for the vote, the members of the SPD parliamentary group rose and voted in favor of the Reichstag declaration. Hoegner described this as follows: "Thereupon an agitator of the other deputies broke loose, and even our most implacable adversary, Adolf Hitler, seemed to be moved for a moment, and he rose and clapped us applause, but the President of the Reichstag, Goering, stood up Spoke magnificently: "The German people are always united when their destiny is. Then the German national deputies began to sing the German song. Most of our ranks were singing. Some ran tears down their cheeks. It was as if social democrats, who were always cursed as the lost sons of the fatherland, had for a moment immortalized the common mother of Germany. " spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-40693632.html
Zachary Harris
your kind of guys were literally getting applauded by Hitler liberals deserve to be amongst the first to get the bullet
Cooper Campbell
Tbf that phrase really is autistic in the modern context, especially in America. Mainly because the progressives/socdems here do not occupy the same position that they did historically in the lead up to Nazi germany, now that would be the neoliberal mainstream Dems. Now, like it or not, the SocDems are occupying what was the Communist left’s space in Germany, here in the modern U.S.
Luke Rodriguez
see
and fuck right off to r/Socialism and r/ChapoTrapHouse you massive faggot
Adam Sanders
Autism Equally autistic is you linking a post that’s just a compilation of dumb shit Bernie said, as if it has any relevance to what I said.
Hudson Ortiz
Yeah you're a fucking stupid larping Red Liberal
Jace Mitchell
He's right you know, phrases like "social democracy is the left wing so fascism" exist for the same historical reason the Nazis called themselves Not Socialists.
David Collins
Stop defending social democrats
Owen Flores
Stop lying
Brandon James
No you completely misunderstand what I’m even saying you larping philistine faggot. My point wasn’t that the socdems were good or preferable, but that they do not occupy the same space today in America that they did in Germany. They aren’t in power, and they don’t capitulate to the far right, and are in general in the position as the “popular underdog”.
Anthony Long
Go back to reddit and stop defending social democrats
Gavin Wright
Go back to reddit and stop defending social democrats
Angel Diaz
...
Isaiah Thompson
Your own argument here is that it is absolutely not the left-wing of fascism. You yourself position in it in opposition to fascism, which you identify as characterizing both the right wing and liberal left.
Thomas Foster
Your historical analysis is completely inane.
Jayden Evans
Go back to reddit and stop defending social democrats
Parker Bailey
You just come across like a know-nothing shouting gibberish.
Jacob Barnes
You come across like a liberal who needs to go back to reddit and stop defending social democrats
Ayden Fisher
Liar. People whose political praxis is to accept lies and insist they are true have a name. I will defend social democracy against fascists like you until I die. Happy now? Go to hell.
Jace Howard
I won't be happy until you go back to reddit and stop defending social democrats
Jaxson Nguyen
Social Democracy will win!
Oliver Bennett
Go back
Joseph Martin
act.dsausa.org/donate/membership/ I'm going to start attaching this link to every discussion I have with anyone who is sympathetic to anti-fascists politics.
Caleb Hughes
Samefagging crypto-Zig Forumsyp
Benjamin Sanchez
GBTRASDSD
Daniel Peterson
You sound like Zig Forums to me tbh
Josiah Sullivan
This is how I know you're a newfag fresh off the boat from r/ChapoTrapHouse
