A voter making $30,000 per year before taxes asked President Obama how he is supposed to be able to afford health insurance when the premiums are $300/month for his income bracket. Obama said, "well you have to prioritise your spending. If you looked at their cable tv, their cell phone bill, other things that they are spending on, it may turn out that they just haven't prioritised health care."
Dude what is even the point of voting for Democrats if you are poor (regardless of race) at this point?
Jimmy Dore: Is it any wonder why Trump won now? When Obama is throwing poor people under the bus.
Poor white trash are just going to vote for Trump to stick it to the out-of-touch libs or not bother to vote at all. And the poor blacks and latinos are just not going to bother to vote period if this is how the Democrat Party is going to take them for granted.
If the Republicans win the mid-terms, do you think that there will finally be a purge of the Corporate Democrats and the party will rebuild to a more progressive direction? The Democrats seem to just be doubling down on what they were doing in 2016 and aren't changing up their strategy. We have some new fresh progressive blood now (Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ben Jealous, etc.). But the Democrat Party is still overwhelmingly filled with corporate shills.
The liberals that I speak to are so insufferable and out-of-touch with the poor. That I actually had some schadenfreude seeing the libs get triggered when Trump won. Kind of like cutting off the nose to spite the face. The Republicans are fucking terrible. But when liberals look down on you like you're a piece of shit, it feels like a betrayal. So when you are fucked either way, it is gratifying to turn on the lover that scorned you so to speak.
Atleast people would acknowledge that some form of socialism works.
Jason Miller
I had my hopes that liberals would stop being such snobby snarky pricks after Hillary got BTFO. And that there would be a progressive rebuild of the party. But it seems like they are still the same centre-right assholes. That just happen to not be racist, homophobic, sexist, etc.
I literally just had a conversation with a snarky snobby liberal that I wanted to punch in the face. Liberals makes me want to cheer for Trump. Even though I hate Trump and Trump hates people like me. He's a trust-fund billionaire who obviously advocates for his class interests. But to see labour aristocrat liberals have the bourg cock so wedged deep in their ass, it enrages me more than a rich person fighting for their interests. I can't be mad at a pitbull for being a pitbull. I set liberals to a higher standard. When I probably shouldn't. And this sets me up for disappointment.
Bentley Mitchell
Read a fucking book
Juan Myers
>>>Zig Forums >>>/reddit/
Josiah Peterson
What is beneficial to the world is not actually a SocDem US president: but actually an anti-imperialist US president. The later would allow a flourishing for socialist movements (both reformist and revolutionary) across the world. The problem is that currently we have several socdem hopefuls for running the US, but none of them (I include Bernie the fuck) are anti-imperialist. The only one I can think of is Tulsi Gabbard (and even then, a lot of her anti-imperialism is vulgar in perhaps the purest sense), but as a Brit a US presidency that wouldn't try to sabotage a Socialist Labour government is all we need, even for 5-6 years: just to build things up.
Luke Martin
Stopped reading there Literally the only time this has ever been even somewhat true is with "Arab socialist" states (which are functionally just Social Democracies with Arabian characteristics) and even then they ultimately either are destroyed by the bigger imperialist countries, begin to capitulate to and trade with them thus further enabling their imperialism, or are dependent upon smaller but still actively imperalist capitalist nations such as Russia to continue to exist
Adam Garcia
I have. Its called the critique of the gotha program. I also know about class conciousness and how a soc dem president would raise it.
What makes you say bernie wouldnt have been anti imperialist?
Jackson Collins
FDR literally said back in the Great Depression to his brother on the phone that they had to give the working class a bigger slice of the pie or else there would be a revolution. FDR openly bragged that he saved capitalism.
Roosevelt was a literal porky. It's odd how there are no liberal porkies now looking to run for office who have the foresight that he did. I have seen liberals (not just conservatives) have the audacity to say that capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than anytime in history and that things are great for our generation (millennials). And that if you are poor then you're just a loser. Any millennial can make it, just don't be lazy, don't be low Autism Level. If you are lazy or low Autism Level, you deserve to be poor, etc. They believe in meritocracy, not economic justice. Whereas FDR believed that some degree of economic justice was necessary to avoid social unrest.
Adrian Rodriguez
It's because their kind of drug is class hatred of the poor.
It's not so hard to figure out: for your usual prole, "false consciousness" usually takes the form of sexism, racism, xenophobia, homophobia, for your better off prole and petit-bourgeois its moralism, classism, ethical consumption and so on.
Aiden Anderson
I don't think there are any winners in the liberal/conservative culture war Just hope some of them abandon the bullshit in favor of socialist analysis and stop wasting ýour neurons on it, it's a joke
Aiden Ward
I would critically support Tusli against AOC woke imperialism. Because that is what is in the offering, sadly: more drone strikes, but with latinix trans people who got M4A to cover their transition pushing to button, to put it crudely.
That was my point indeed.
Jack Cox
Worth reading but fundamentally irrelevant to combat modern capitalism or even to the Leftist movement only a few decades after it was written.
His stance towards NK (advocating breaking off talks), which tbh even a lot of people in this country are fine with a Korean peace process, not even just anti-imperialist. The fact Bernie is pulling the Neocon line of "MUH DICTATORSHIP NO PEACE TALKS" shows he is too easily pushed around by the state.
The 1970s SocDems were pretty damn anti-imperialist (Wilson, Whitlam, Palme [all of whom lost their offices in odd circumstances]), a figure like one of them in America would effectively ensure the return of the Latin American left, the final freeing of Europe from American domination (which would itself usher in Multipolarity), and would see a withdrawal from the ME & Afghanistan. They may not last long, but they would do enough to end US hegemony and that's all we need.
AOC isn't that bad in that sense, her problem is that like Bernie she is too easily cucked by the establishment. Her u-turn on Israeli policy is the best example of this.
Jayden Taylor
Yes it is definitely a culture war. Because on economics, there isn't much difference between the two. If you are poor, the liberals are slightly less nasty to you. But they still treat you like a piece of shit. You're not going to want to vote for a party or socialize with people who look down on you.
Trump hates poor people but he is at least bothering to communicate with them. "The game is rigged." "We're going to get your well-paying jobs back." (no he isn't but working class whites vote for him because he says what they want to hear.) And he tried to appeal to them in other ways. Through racist dog whistling. Religion (dude rawdogged Stormy Daniels while his wife was pregnant but so as long as you're pro-life and what not, the Evangelicals don't seem to care), etc.
Hillary Clinton tried to pretend to give a shit about the poor by stealing Bernie Sanders' planks. But everyone knew she was full of shit. Trump is full of shit too. But he's a better smooth talker.
Obama was a smooth talker. But apparently he stopped with the pretensions awhile. Given what he said in that clip above.
It's funny to see Trump supporters point to the stock market and the unemployment rate (indicators that are a joke) as proof that the economy is great now under Trump. Meanwhile white trash Republicans are literally dying from the opioid epidemic in record numbers and the life expectancy in the United States is now below Costa Rica. lmao.
But hey, it's not about policy. It's about the culture war and triggering the libs to them.
Colton Murphy
Maybe if you really want healthcare it should be a priority.
Cameron Clark
Not a coincidence. It was the decade when the welfare state ran up against its limits, in the sense that all the giveaways to the workers had undermined the rate of profit, and neoliberalism had to come along to restore it. Also the time when the Swedish demsocs proposed a platform to gradually socialize industry. This is the big problem of demsoc generally; at the point where the interests of the capitalists really do become threatened, their commitment to formal democracy dooms them to being crushed by reaction. It became revealed that the third way ran into a wall.
Camden Reed
Do you honestly fucking think that Social Democrats like them still exist? The only ones maybe are Labour and they're in the UK buddy not the USA, which is the leading imperialist power right now. If any SocDems such as them exist in the US they have been marginalized to the point that, short of an inter-party coup, they will never be ALLOWED power. It's likely that Labour will only succeed in the next election for the FDR effect, aka getting workers to calm down a bit, before there is some sort of coup against them.
Even FDR had an attempt on his life early in his presidency and Henry Wallace was fucked out of the Vice Presidency so that the nuclear bomb-dropping racist Truman could replace FDR over one of the only legitimate DemSocs to ever be in the Democratic Party, showing the lack of tolerance among the US ruling class for even the mildest of reforms. If you think that in the neoliberal era they wouldn't do some shit like that or even worse then you have got your fucking head in the clouds and you don't understand the level of depravity and sociopathy among porkies.
10/10 for using 1970s Labour as a "comeback" against why social democrats and specifically Bernie Sanders, who is a member of a completely different party in a completely different country (yes I know he's technically an independent but he is functionally a Democrat shut the fuck up) aren't anti-imperialist, really got my balls in a knot. Have fun with pic related btw
Jeez, I didn't know Bernie Sanders was this bad on foreign policy. rofl.
Jayden Gonzalez
Yeah, the issue was that DemSoc reformers came in the early 1970s not towards the end. If Benn had won that deputy leadership his AES might have ended the inflationary crisis and thus creating a british socialism in one state. With Mitterand coming later that would have been Britain and France operating along the same lines, and could have strangled neoliberalism in its crib. Alas we did not.
I was positing a hypothetical about the US, I don't know of an US SocDems that are that tier. The point I was making was that kind of SocDem in the US, even if they lasted half a term, would do so much damage to US hegemony that it would benefit everyone else. As for the possibility of getting cucked out of leadership, I know it is perfectly possible: the same happened with Benn in the early 1980s (I will never forgive Kinnock for that). Also your picture is Clement Attlee, not Harold Wilson.
I wasn't faggot I was making the point that Labour has literally never been overtly-anti imperialist and that the tenendcy has in fact been a minority in the party til extremely recently.
And yes, hypotheticals and "wishing" for shit isn't fucking materialist, what you're doing is on par with meme magic Zig Forums shit
Sebastian Bell
Kek, not being able to conceptualise possible scenarios is literally what led to Brezhnev fucking up the Soviet economy. First as a tragedy then as a farce…
Dominic Russell
There is 100 percent a difference between "being able to conceptualize possible scenarios" and saying "one time for about 5-10 years a group of SocDems in one part of the world were alright so we should blindly support them now because maybe they're playing 4D Chess with all the imperialism and capitulation to neoliberals prove that they ARENT going to do it" which is what you're doing
Hunter Bailey
i don't want the contex of that fucking pic like what the fuck is happening there ,is he going to fuck him?
we have two options: in which case succdems will do as they always have, defend capital with concessions.
Blake Hall
If I was a burger I would be thrilled for some concessions tbh. You cannot live of revolutionary fervor alone.
Adrian Hughes
Mostly "not bother to vote at all". Republicans have always had higher incomes, on average, and Trump didn't change that. Poor people mostly don't vote, because as you said, it doesn't really matter who is in power to them. They have nothing to lose and nothing to gain.
Alexander Parker
Well, social values are a reflection of material circumstances, right? The liberal/succdem side is concentrated in the urban service sector, government, academia and 'creative class' industries, and their liberalism is a reflection of the types of industries they represent – they are global in nature. The conservative/reactionary side is more heavily rooted in primary industries such as resource extraction including oil and natural gas, farmers, heavy manufacturing, or coal miners in West Virginia. These industries tend to be more actually reactionary because they are rooted in particular places and face a lot of risks if exposed to global competition. (The U.S. ag industry is basically kept alive with subsidies.)
Both sectors need each other. The urban service sector needs primary industries, while the primary sector relies on the service sector to move goods around, develop more efficient production processes, handle marketing and sales, support services, HR management, etc. This is called a value chain and it's what turns stuff found in the ground into products consumed on a global scale. Facebook – whose employees are very liberal – is just a giant advertising firm, right?
The reason our politics feels so stupid and fucked is that it's not a competition between people and the elites, but between the elites of these various sectors. Trump has favored the primary industries, but the succdems feel that he's going to upset the apple cart. Trump wants steel to be made in the U.S. to bring back jobs from China, but we may end up losing more jobs in the long run because of the rising steel costs for consumers (big industries which consume a lot of steel such as commercial property developers). So that's the real competition. The culture wars are really different elites playing to the cultural prejudices and fears of their constituents.
I just thought about this while looking around for a gif to use, but remember the movie Office Space? This guy was stuck in a boring, stifling office job. The film didn't satirize SJWs but he had to put up with the "just a mo-ment!" secretary who could be one. One of his co-workers is this nerdy guy with a Navy SEAL poster in his cubicle – he has been emasculated. By the end of the movie, one of the employees burns the building down, and the protagonist goes to work in construction. I hesitate to use the word "reactionary" to describe the end of this movie, but I think that's kind of like how the Trump vote feels. It's not an anti-capitalist movie by any means and results in the hero swapping out one boss for another.
