Why has De Leonism fallen out of favor? It seems like a viable way to ensure TEATTN is carried out properly, and overall looks like a good system to achieve equality.
De Leonism
Noah Taylor
William Sullivan
Because syndicalism has been proven inferior to the vanguard party and democratic centralism.
Juan Miller
But Lenin didn't consider the vanguard party and democratic centralism a viable option for all countries, only shitholes like Russia.
Isaiah Nguyen
How so?
Zachary Myers
But De Leonism is vanguardist but unlike Lenin they believe that the Unions and the vanguard shouldn't be split apart. Lenin admired De Leon and his works and worked upon them.
Isaiah Ward
lol no. Its because of US anti communist propaganda which eventually destroyed SLP and by extension DeLeonism
Owen Nelson
LARP
Sebastian Robinson
If a political movement can't survive enemy propaganda, then it's probably not a worthy political movement anyway.
Liam Mitchell
A small party and the State are not rivalling enemies, the State is obviously in a much more powerful and hegemonic position.
t. not a "DeLeonist"
Noah Kelly
Compare the number of ML countries in the 20th century to the number of Deleonist countries and parties in the world, 0
Anthony Harris
This is an obvious product of the first succesful revolution in a major country being ML. If the revolution had begun in the US and not in Russia, Deleonism might've been the dominant revolutionary ideology spreading around the world.
Isaiah Bennett
reminder that Lenin was literally a DeLeonist.
Jonathan Jones
Except Lenin didn't incorporate unions into the state at all, he kept a lot of the imperial government institutions alive and staffed.
Robert Cooper
IT'S ANOTHER LARP IDEOLOGY THREAD I CAN MASTURBATE MY BIG-BRAIN OVER WITH ONLINE WHILE DOING NOTHING IRL
Hudson Evans
The issue with De Leonism is that the first major communist revolution (bar Paris) was one where there was little to no trade union structures in-place. The introduction of the vanguard party across europe through the Comintern along with its muddled stance towards unions kinda killed the concept as syndicalism during the interwar period, and by the cold war the distinctions were between Social Democrat parties (that had the main industrial labour unions on their side), and Marxist-Leninist parties (that often either infiltrated socdem unions, formed their own or abandoned trades unionism all together). As such the trade unions ideologically were subjugated to either social democratic or marxist-leninist thought, and the sovereignty of De Leonism & syndicalism as a whole was not possible. Then came the era of neoliberalism, which killed a lot of unions and thus made it redundant.
However since the fall over the USSR, syndicalism has made a weird come-back in some places: more out of necessity than anything. When the leadership of the UK Labour party neoliberalised in the 1990s, a lot of trade unions that were hard-left left the party affiliation, one of these being the Rail and Maritime Transport union (Basically covers train, bus, ferry drivers). Under the leadership of Bob Crow it took a firm militant stance, one that advocated for the union itself taking control of the railways with government ownership. This militancy was born by the revisionism of social democracy and the collapse of leninist thought. The same can be seen in France, which has more independent unions that are starting to reassert themselves with their syndicalist tradition.
The reason militant trade unionism become a thing was that fordism requires trade unions to exist: it was the action of trade unions that created ironic stability by organising the workforce into a whole. While industrial fordism is dead in the west, what we are starting to see is the birth of service fordism with companies like Uber and pubs like Witherspooons. It is here that the syndicalist model can reassert itself, and considering the IWW & IWGB just unionsed most of London's uber drivers, I have high hopes for it ngl, especially since even with the reassertion of Labour's Democratic Socialist tradtion the trades unions haven't cucked themselves to it like in the past but have infact gotten MORE militant. Even if Corbyn was shot and disgraced for being a paedo or something, what is happening with trade unionism in this country would advance, purely because the dialectic is in motion.
Also all the Lenin fanbois saying that De Leon is pointless because mut immortal science: Lenin praised De Leon as a writer and thought his theories were of extreme merit, just specifically not in Russia because of the lack of Russia's industrial base and independent trade union system.
Jayden Bailey
yeah bro why would you ever discuss marxism on a board about leftism
Angel Fisher
leftism is a larp ideology to masturbate your big brain to online while doing nothing irl, marxism the most of all.
Mason Lewis
insightful post comrade
Jaxon Rogers
Saved, very nice post friendo.
Jaxson Phillips
...
Elijah King
As opposed to? Explain what we should believe in instead.
Jason Rivera
you should believe in nothing
Elijah Miller
thank you for this post. in the US where unions seem to be popular in specialized trades (teaching, sanitation, plumbing, electrician, etc) but lacking in other fields (food service industry and other minimum-wage jobs) if unions became standard across all industries, could we potentially have a large rise in de leonism in the US? also, as a slightly unrelated note, in the nordic countries they tend to operate in a tripartite system of private-worker-government running of businesses, could de leonism rise there as well considering the workers essentially act as their own unions when dealing with their bosses when bargaining?
Mason Clark
Deleon and the SLP are virtually unknown in the US, so revitalizing the SLP needs to be done, hell you might need to start a Deleonist caucus in the Democrat Cops of America if you want to draw attention and recruits.
Daniel Perez
Union workers dont care about deleonism, they just want higher wages.
Austin Wright
i don't think that's the case. workers in unions advocate for a variety of different things, such as working conditions, ensuring their employment through various means, healthcare, financial benefits such as 401k's, stock options, etc. if these unions learned they could take control of the means of production instead of having to compromise with an employer, they'd most likely want to do so as they want to secure the best conditions for their own labor. if they learned about de leonism from there, i'm sure they'd desire to go further with it.
David Mitchell
Lenin fanboy here, we just want you to caution against militant trade unionism for its own sake, instead of leading to taking over the state as Biennio Rosso was a major reason Mussolini got the full support of liberals.
Camden Hall
i'm pretty sure the strategy for de leonism is for the latter and not the former? the state dissolves and is replaced with trade unions that coordinate together to coordinate production to provide for everyone's needs appropriately, right?
Justin Gray
And you think the global bourgeoisie will just… let you?
Justin Morgan
Well give me a reason why people should want marxist leninism as opposed to social democracy which has proven to provide better standards of living.
Cameron Barnes
i'm saying that would be the end result. it's be foolish to believe a government could simply be voted into existence. the revolution could proceed in any number of ways, of which i do not know, however the finished product would resemble this. essentially i don't know the solvent of which dissolves capitalism and the bourgeoisie state, but what i do know is the end product of the reaction.
Carson Parker
You could have a society in which the factories and farms are owned by the workers and money is abolished but it'd be an uncoordinated mess.
Workers wouldn't really care if quotas were not filled, then people would be left wondering why all the store shelves are empty.
That's why there needs to be some kind of coordination.
Evan Perez
Of course, all the elected union leaders would convine at the all Union Congress and form an economic plan
Owen Rogers
all the elected union leaders would be working together to plan the economy so that everyone's needs can be met. they'd form a plan based on the interactions between the means of production (miners work with steel manufacturers who work with automotive manufacturers who work with…) using metrics such as demand from previous years etc. to decide how much needs to be produced. then, the unions would form guidelines to ensure people didn't over-consume (having more cars than you use, buying too much food and wasting it because it went bad before you could eat it, etc) working with consumers to make sure everyone's needs were met appropriately.
Grayson Wood
It was a meme.
Gabriel Campbell
Social democracy is a bandage on cancer. History has repeatedly proven that it invariably slides back into liberalism.
Isaac Ross
But so has marxist-leninism
Alexander Reed
it doesn't "slide back" it got defeated by the bourgeoisie. social democracies sliding back are due to the bourgeoisie existing and exerting power back into their own hands through control of the government, industry, and media.
William Ward
LARP