US military will deploy 5,200 active duty troops to Mexican border

how do you fuck this up

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It is tricky because they are coming here at the behest of liberals to be exploited as lawn mowers and toilet cleaners (in their own words). So supporting it would be allying yourself with the most out of touch elitist assholes possible who cant even clean their own toilets.

Ive always found myself considering myself "pro immigrant anti immigration" in the current climate.

Exposing crimes is enough.

you're great, user

i mostly find myself agreeing with you but user, have you read this? might give some more perspective: marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1913/oct/29.htm
those who have been dragged from home and are refugees might be more inclined to communist thought, no? even if they sadly end up in service to out-of-touch liberals.

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Disband the military and borders.

On what basis will that happen?

The problem is you have people coming from complete poverty to comfortable poverty. The average person is not going to rock the boat, even be thankful for it.

I see immigration in the US as the democrats answer to the abolition of slavery. The migrant is just the new slave to them. And you know, being a slave in america wasn't necessarily that bad compared to the alternatives (being a slave in africa), you probably had better medical care and food than you would have gotten there, and there were laws in america against abusing slaves that were probably followed by at least some masters, but you were still a slave.

I just dont like it, there is no good position on it apart from 'change the entire system'.

Oh, no, you misunderstand me. I find it abhorrent as well.
But of course.

Indentured servitude among Africans functioned more similarly to a caste system than to chattel slavery, still evil but a lesser kind. It is true that American slavery was far from the worst historical example, but few Africans actually made it to the US, and they were only kept alive for economic reasons; the majority of them were treated as disposable work machines.
Welcome to radicalism. :^)

On what basis should leftists be anti-immigration or discourage the free movement of labor?

People who come to the USA become Reactionaries because of the "PULL YOURSELF FROM THE BOOTSTRAPS". If they show any Left-wing signs it's because they wanna use it for their own advantages not because they give a shit about politics. The Democrats only give Capitalism a nice image because they want people to become complacent. I would say that the people who vote for the Republican party is actually the audience that should be targeted. They know full well what the GOP is like, but it's in their interests to support them.

the left had always grown when they incorporated the precariat(?) into their movements. These people aren't a threat to the labor aristocracy in any way.

Immigration is advocated by liberals to further increase the labor pool, allowing them to pay lower wages thus causing more people to become dependent on the welfare state and less likely to try and overturn it out of self interest.

Were the conditions of poverty the same? You are not in danger of starving to death in the US.

where do you even get this point from?

People will always prioritize security over prosperity. The US creates a system that discourages the masses from resisting it if you take immigration into consideration.

First it exploits foreign places for profit. This gives it wealth and also creates incentive for those exploited people to seek migration to the US. They do so, which lets them be exploited again locally, and has the added benefit of causing the people already living there to also have to accept worse and worse exploitation. The result of all this exploitation however is the affordability of a welfare state, to make people comfortably impoverished. Because they are secure, even if uncomfortable, they will not see fighting the system in their best interest.

Using this method capitalism has engineered worker compliance. The only way it can change now is if it totally collapses first.

What im talking about, is the idea that you just get a bunch of workers and educate them and eventually we will have a strong socialist movement. I cant see this working as long as security is assured.

When you become a level 5 ☭TANKIE☭ you start calling people labor.

Leftist should support people going where they want to go but should acknowledge that being forced to migrate sucks and this is caused by ecological destruction, imperialism, and extreme wealth and standard of living inequality and damages the working class in 1st world countries

Duh, why would you want to side with the US military against people leaving their homelands and coming to better conditions? Walls, soldiers and deporting people isn’t going to stop immigration from Central America so long as development remains uneven and and their homelands are exploited by imperialism.

The "Free Movement of Labour" point is a mixed bag and a situational one in capitalism. While Marx generally supported it in his time as a way to accelerate capitalism and free trade and with such things both the further spur on industrialization and the contradictions of capital, he also had no illusions about the effect it would have on wages and the reserve army of labour. It becomes even more muddled when you factor Lenin's writings on the topic that posted to make the point of revolutionary potential. While Lenin does make the point that those immigrating from backwards countries carry with them possible revolutionary potential, this comes the expectation that those people will be receiving "training in civilization" and be joining up with the "advanced, international army of the proletariat" which will go on to further educate and progress the "backwards" countries they came from. What we see today is very different though. Instead of those coming in joining some advanced, international army of workers, we see most migrants being trapped into a state of not only poor education and poverty but subtle indoctrination and assimilation. To ellaborate, those of the first generation are usually mostly focused on providing for their children and/or themselves with what little they have and have no time for revolutionary ideas or further education; to them the movement from their previous country to the next was their great shift in conditions and while they may hold some sympathy for their home country and its workers, now is the time to work and obtain some sort of footing. But by the second generation, any sense of "sympathy" or "solidarity" with the workers of their parents home country has dulled as those who are born in the new country have no experiences with those workers or in that country. At most they have stories from their parents retelling the conditions of it, which do nothing to actually encourage assisting those people and instead do the opposite with the rhetoric being that one is lucky to be here, that they should work hard and appreciate being able to live in such a country as there are those who did not have the opportunity you were provided. The parents country becomes more of a grim reminder rather that can be improved and if there is a devotion to anything it is to the current country, sometime fervently so.
Capitalist free movement of labour can also create the problem of dissatisfied masses deciding to leave their country to escape conditions rather then change them because leaving will always be the relatively "safer" option to take with everyone else waiting in what amounts to a mass "queue". And this isn't even going into the problem of braindrain.

Btw, I agree completely with , but I think sometimes some leftists too often just say "free movement of labour" and just hope for the best in regards to revolutionary potential.

TRUMP TO LET THEM IN
invidio.us/watch?v=6O0vt-qgiJ0

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Fuck off, fash

whole situation is chilling

nice bourgeois carryover you got there. from a Maoist no less. Fuck America, let 'em in though. But for a common interest.

I’m just saying that workers will move to the more prosperous places. Central America is objectivey less prosperous than America and people are willing to risk the dangerous journey and potentially shitty conditions to do it. As long as the inequality gap remains and of course imperialism, people will risk the journey and no amount of walls, soldiers and crack-downs will stop it completely

Its literally like 1,000 fucking people about to be, at the least, directly threatened by over 5,000 US troops (with the aid of like 1200 national guardsmen and who knows how many "border patrol" faggots) and at worst potentially slaughtered similar to how Palestinians are by the IDF. The optics of that would be incredible agitprop for turning the US working class against its military-industrial complex.

Call it cynical if you want but that was my point not some type of edgy anarkiddie shit about "Le no borders xD". 99 percent of the time I agree with you but IN THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE it would be a good thing for anti-imperialists to support the Caravan trying to cross from a dialectical point of view

The EU probably would do something due to the fact that, even with all the Brexit and Italy nonsense, it's becoming a world power with a large enough GDP and shared military to challenge the US on a global scale (not to the same extent as China but moreso than Russia I would say)

It would of course be virtue signalling but that's beside the point. A crackup in the global bourgeois is ALWAYS a good thing for the Left if we know how to exploit it, and every crack should be hammered as hard as it can be to potentially divide the bourgeois and expose at least one part of their ugly face to the working class.

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You really don't understand how the EU's relations with America under Trump work m8. Yes some individual member governments have their own baggage insofar as imperialism and acting shitty towards immigrants, but they're pissed about Trump's tarriffs and other economic measures slowing down global growth and causing issues in furthering the neoliberal globalization that birthed the EU in the first place. The EU, despite having a few member nations fall to Right-populism as you correctly described, is still led by neoliberals, not neofascists, who have used every opportunity they get to paint the US under Trump as some kind of special problem

The EU has also been pivoting towards China more and more and Israel and Saudi Arabia have been keeping their options open as far as trading with Russia and China as well, so the US generally is becoming more isolated already. If it took a step even further away from the "global consensus" if you will this is the first time in several decades many of its allies can abandon it economically and in other ways. Its happened to almost every empire throughout history on a long enough time line, it'd be naive to assume it would never happen to the USA

Shit dude I'm sorry I thought you were responding to me here . Nevertheless, my point there still stands.

Along with that point, the US working class isn't just white people who voted for Trump m8. The majority of working class people in the USA didn't vote at all and polls show most of them are disillusioned with the government in general, even going so far as black working class folks feeling disappointed in Obama after voting for him twice

neoliberalism sucks though.

I'm conflicted on the issue. It objectively does hurt the lowest ends of the working class such as myself by increasing the reserve army of labor when we already have millions of unemployed people that can't find work. On the other hand we are the reason these people's homelands are Neoliberal hellscapes in the first place and I can't blame them for trying to find a better life for their family. I wish I had somewhere that I could immigrate to out of America. I think the solution to the problem until we have a dotp is a living wage federal job guarantee. This ameliorates most of the issues that they cause to labor and gets less people working for porky. youtu.be/KSw0ROvM6QM
Another big issue with immigration is we are in climate emergency already and creating more high polluting Americans is not helping.

I think you misunderstood my point. I wasn't saying neoliberalism was good I was saying that because the EU is still governed by hard neolibs, not neofascists who agree with Trump and the Republicans on trade, they've been keeping the US at a distance and using whatever excuse they can to distance themselves from the US already, if Trump slaughtered a bunch of immigrants it would be a great opportunity to cut even more ties and "punish" the US etc

I'm not saying any of this is good in itself because it's ultimately all virtue signalling but it would be bad for the global economy due to creating uncertainty and could help accelerate to the next downturn

Except the "Caravan" is literally less than the millions of Mexicans who have been coming to the US since NAFTA decimated that country on a yearly basis. And when you look at that segment they've been overwhelmingly unsuccessful in coming to America, particularly under Obama, who deported more people than any other previous President combined. The media and Trump are literally just using this particular group of people as an excuse to scare the white working class before the Midterms, if they were coming at literally any other time of the year the fearmongering would be way less intense

Aside from that though read my post here it's an optics issue it has nothing to do with morals necessarily

This is just a spook regardless of how you feel about immigration or the Caravan. Every single study that's been done shows it is overwhelmingly the Ruling Class and not the working class or even the lumpens who are responsible for most pollution in America and globally

I'm not talking about the caravan though, I'm talking about immigration as a whole.
I don't disagree but I'm not going to pretend that having 11 million more first worlders is not creating a lot more pollution than they would back home. In any case the solution is to drastically change the laws so Americans as a whole are not polluting like we do in the first place

My point still stands then, the "immigration problem" is way less intense generally than the media makes it out to be.

I don't really understand this. If they were in their own country they'd still be creating as much pollution as they would in America or anywhere else, the net effect doesn't change just because it's in one place or another

Aka the brown person your boomer parents will pay 10 dollars to mow their 20 acre lot

It's the way to destroy capitalism itself.

twitter.com/MW_Unrest/status/1057429137839742977

Reminder that the Department of Homeland Security fully intends on firing onto the crowd using fully automatic weapons.

How does this do anything to increase the material conditions in those countries?
This only benefits Porky, because now he gets even cheaper labor.

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What?
Also it's just like a thousand people, it's a complete blip on the radar and the vast overreaction to it shows the stupidity and evil of the US government.

This one is closer to 5,000. It's far from the first, and definitely won't be the last to try. But it's a complete lose-lose situation all around.
On the one hand,
…despite not actually improving the material conditions in those countries, only helping Porky profit, and doing absolutely nothing against capitalism.
On the other hand,
…and will completely ignore how Porky is undercutting their wages.
And if either of them get wind that communists only support it because they think it will destroy the country more quickly, both sides will be even less receptive to communism, and Porky rolls around in even higher profits due to exploiting the foreign workers.

If I were a decent man and had the resources I would mostly likely be going into Mexico and delivering those caravanneers bottles of water and food laced with small pox. They would be the perfect vectors for a new wave of smallpox pandemic that would slaughter everyone in the region as they fled across America.

They've already shot at Mexican cops, why won't they shoot at soldiers?

They're not "refugees". Just because your country sucks doesn't give you an automatic pass to shit up someone else's country.

kek

Stopped being so spooked, fag

Nicarauga was doing pretty gud til the United States government hired a bunch of psychopaths and gave them the guns and money to brutally murder, torture, rape and economically decimate the place for 20 years then did a similar albeit less brutal coup yet again in 2009

1) We aren't trying to convert bourgeois libs or cuckservatives to our cause in the first place, they aren't receptive to communist ideas in the first place
2) It's cute that you think us "supporting" the Caravan in literally the most non-material way possible might "get out" and actually have any real-life influence anyway

This. I also don’t know what everyone expects them to do. They’re not going to storm the border, they’re going to show up and wait to be dealt with. If border control told them all to fuck off I’ll bet you a solid 80% would just disperse into whatever border town they arrived at while the rest might continue pressing to be granted refugee status for some time.

This isn't about the border or immigration, this is about imperialism and empire building. We've handed the largest military of the world to the largest narcissist in the world. A man who has spent his entire life being given, and taking what he wants.
He's going to take over Mexico immediately after the elections. He has 90 days before congress can do anything once he declares war on Mexico. Military buildup like this would have started a war on it's own 20 years ago.

The president doesn't have as much authority as the US empire's political theater tells you.
I want some of whatever you're smoking dude.

I wanna see this

That would be the best timeline

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So who will replace Kaiser Trump when he loses the War, the Fascists, or the Communists?

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Lmfao Imagine believing this

Got a higher res version of that pic?

Pre-Recession probably the fascists
Post-Recession probably the social democrats
Serious communists won't take over America for at least another 100 years if the planet can manage to survive that long

The short music matters into the puzzled type.

Congressional approval