So is idpol just the old tactic of divide and conquer, promulgated by porkies to maintain their power?

yep, I'm sure that's something that actually happened.
huh wow this doesn't sound like idpol at all!

Objectively bad post in my infallible opinion. The left was completely fucked when leftypol surfaced and the only thing of relevance the left had achieved in the ten years before it were idpolers fucking up OWS and getting their shit all over every single social media platform on the internet and becoming a laughing stock.
The reason hostility to idpol even on leftypol has dropped is because in recent years it's turned out these people do literally nothing but posture on the internet.
Although anyone that tries a progressive stack in the future should be quietly taken behind stage and have all their fingers broken. It should definitely be remembered as something to be treated with hostility come the next financial crash.

Back to reddit (where ironically this screenshot comes from).

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OWS was screwed up by not having any demands or plan of action and a fetishization of consensus decision making. Basically anarchist idealism. The idea that women and minorities scared away the able white men is itself an insane idpol interpretation.

Yeah I mean who's ever heard of coastal US middle class white women trying to get money and power out of using liberal ideology to portray themselves as an oppressed group?

Because there was so much money and power in OWS right? You're utterly delusional.

You're retarded and new as fuck so I could see why you'd expect someone to pander to you being disingenuous as fuck.

go back to Zig Forums dipshit

"the left" aka communists have been destroyed by all-out warfare. arrests, murder, blacklisting, etc. foreign invasions, color revolutions.
Libs on the other hand will always come up with any stupid shit to appear progressive and divert proles and vacillating petty booj into dead-ends. Liberalism is objectively the left wing of fascism.

No, lurking for two days isn't enough, reddit. Even thinking that transparently disingenuous crap flies here is a dead giveaway because imageboards don't function off pedantic smug gotchas and circlejerking.

Actually I was on 4chan before it got taken over by newfags obsessed with gamergate and owning SJWs or whatever, nice try.

I am not an american so i dont know much about the issue
For example can someone explain what ows plan was?
Tho i higly doubt a large amount of liberals being FBI shills

Are you a newfag?
This is not an "USA only" board
You mean those 5 underage girls 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧sceptics🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 maked fun of?

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You're just a perpetually stupid fuck for thinking that evading the point is a clever thing that works then.
I was on 4chan before reddit was a thing so you can still fuck off back there for all I care.

I'm wasn't evading the point, I shut you down with a direct refutation moron.

Was there actually anything other than Occupy though? I'm not American, there was just nothing else notable that I can think of. Let's memory hole the Greece thing.
No, I mean the vast majority of "leftist" presence online and their IRL wrecking whenever they log off, but we can throw in spazzy American students since they basically believe the same shit.

You didn't refute shit because you just acted like power is not important when it's just getting to call the shots of whatever minor movement you're in the middle of wrecking. It's still fucking power.

OWS was a farce , not a communist revolution
And i am fucking sure every country in the world had semi leftist protests before america
You mean Syriza, cause this happened after OWS
But greece had actual fucking riots in 2008 and 2011
I highly doubt you are not a mutt

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Yeah that's my point, it could have been a decent vehicle for raising class consciousness and there were people there attempting to do so but it fell to shit, deliberately or not, in no time because of stupid idpol crap like the progressive stack.
I am a based and white anglo-saxon king.
Yeah, and Syriza were fucking shit. The anarchists did better and even control some areas from what I've read. See the other half of my post too.

I'm talking about the 2008-2015 years during and after the crash (since it was the biggest missed opportunity since the USSR fell tbh) where the left was basically idpol red liberals roleplaying online. Everything's been pretty comfy recently beyond them sperging up the Democrat Cops of America a bit. But discourse being dominated by identity politics largely contributed to the wilderness years and made the internet completely unusable for recruitment and propaganda, and now it will always be shit because a handful of companies have most of it locked down.

True
KKE fucked up cause rather than using the crisis as a opportunity to attack capitalist the started spewing shit about how eu is a wolfpack
The only people that believe communism is when underage tumblr girl exists are retarded anglos like you
Not anywere else

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Is this a really roundabout way of you telling me you aren't fluent in English and are using google translate because that is not what you are replying to implies at all.

I mean 2008 wasn't the biggest chance since the USSR fell: 1929 didn't cause a massive leap in leftwing thought, if anything it did a lot to have it repressed across Europe. There was never a chance of any major leftwing swing in 2011 because economic crises don't hit as hard in that short a period of time. What we have now is actually more conducive for leftwing thought than the period immediately following the crash. People who are out of work are less likely to be conducive to socialism than those in work but working in shit conditions. If we look at 1919, those that revolted were employed in war economies, not actually unemployed. The left needed to reorganize, and in many places it has done so (British Labour, La France Insoumise) or is doing so (PaP, Left parties across Europe). We needed an ideological revolution, and we got one. Now the role of the left should be reunionisation and preparation to push neoliberal governments. The right wing populist surge is starting to retreat, mostly because they cannot deliver. Following that, is when the real shit will happen. We are between the spaces where the old world dies and the new one is born, we need to push to see the baby's crown.

Didnt you said that:
So i replyed that most people know atleast that communism is about hating capitalism not hating men:)

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This is a good point and explains a lot, especially in the UK where unemployment is really low but it's padded out with shit jobs that don't pay the bills. In agreement with pretty much everything you say, and if we blew it now then it would definitely be the biggest wasted opportunity since the USSR. The stars pretty much aligned for the UK so I'm not sure how easy it would be to replicate it, and Melenchon has been taking a beating recently too with raids affecting his polling. Who is PaP?
The eternally retarded anti-Germans are fucking it up in Germany, but I'm not sure if we could get traction there anyway without France and the UK leaving the EU.

What I'm trying to get at is that for years in the English speaking world (and a lot of Europe) the left was utterly incapable and that 2008-2015 was largely wasted time where the only place where people could have access to leftist thought was online, but this didn't happen since people did nothing but monopolise social media discourse to show off their woke credentials for pussy, careers, popularity etc. If people were more effective doing groundwork organising then it wouldn't have been a problem, but they weren't, so the free internet era was also a missed opportunity.

Well the reason the stars are aligned in the UK is mostly due to luck, but its pattern is replicable across Europe. The key will be unionisation of the service sector, which is happening more and more across Europe.
As for Melenchon taking a hit, it is temporary: Macron thinks he can beat a man and beat the movement (because his movement is based solely on him). This won't happen, this won't happen with Corbyn either. What people don't realise is that these leftwing movements have set into motion things way beyond their control, both of these men could be shot but what is in progress will continue. We have hit a watershed moment, one where the mechanisms for ending neoliberalism can occur.
PaP is an Italian party btw, it translates to "Power to the People".

Macron did fucking shit last time too, the turnout was pathetic and spoiled ballot came second and it wasn't exactly the biggest landslide in history. The real problem is stopping that shitty neolib socdem party splitting the vote again and keeping Melenchon off the ballot. Too bad the French don't speak English, I had a blast pretending to be a Reagan loving real American cowboy boomer shilling for Trump and I'd start hon honning it up for Melenchon any day.
I've been thinking of joining the union for whatever warehousing is under and gunning for Amazon, too bad getting them striking wouldn't be possible for Christmas. Maybe I'll pick another big shitstorm time like mother and father's days, since they're close together iirc.
Slightly concerned about the abject and obvious lack of fucking guns though. Pretty sure Corbyn is gonna get couped. We'll probably just have to go full smashie, launch strikes, and occupy institutional buildings. Not sure what the numbers would be like at that point though or how sympathetic the squaddies would be.

Yes.

Because identity is a socially constructed "idea" which changes all the time, the placing of it in any position of significance is detrimental to any sort of progress. Yes, "black chicano trans lesbians" are real insofar as people believe they are real, but we are human beings who are all subject to the same subjugation and manipulation by those in high places. If you truly believe in equality, you must accept that identities are largely meaningless social constructs in the face of the common humanity we share. Of course, there are many of us who are quite aware that these poisonous ideologies exist solely to destroy movements for the liberation of humanity against parasites and tyrants, but the question is how must they be overcome considering that they have been so successful in subverting attention?

Wait user, where are you from?

Wait sorry you're british.
As for Corbyn getting coup'ed, I mean the military itself is quite weak currently, but I honestly don't think a legit coup would be able to get pulled off: purely because of the weakness of the british state right now.
As for squaddies, well honestly I would say they are pretty pro-establishment, but there aren't that many of them so eh.
Irony is the police might join the counter-coup: purely because they have been fucked so much by the tories, have been shagged for funding by the army, and are sympathetic to Corbyn's anti-austerity politics.

Coups dont work anymore
Especially in fucking britain
The only way they could overtrow Corbyn if he wons is to push that he is trying to take full power , coup him and then elections
Stop being retarded

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who's raiding us this time?

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Except post-coup elections never materialise: and agitation during a coup could happen anyways.
Besides, there is no "constitution" for corbyn to violate or anything like that.

So no coup
In general dictatorsip would never happen in UK stop waching dumb political dramas

That's a good point about numbers, but guns are a rare commodity and if the army used force it would be devastating. London would probably get most of the troops but Liverpool and Manchester would basically declare their own Soviet given the massive leftist presence, it would be ungovernable. You also have to worry about things like the Australian 1975 constitutional crisis, but I imagine if they pulled something like that in such a poorly garrisoned, urban and dense country like the UK you'd have to back that up with force too..
Yeah not sure how this would play out, would definitely be very confusing. Would be worth trying to get them to cross the line for the inevitable confrontation, but you know what cops are like, they're not exactly the free thinking types.

there's nothing remotely offensive about any of the phrases in that Google trends graph.

ChapoTraphouse
The worlds biggest garbage can of ideology

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if you can't recognize why OWS failed vis a vis you are objectively reactionary. it's science.
yeah we get it you're a le smart redditor. you're not going getting your dick sucked here so just fuck off.

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I'm not the redditor m8 I was posting that screenshot as an example of how liberal the Chapo sub's become not to endorse it wew

DUNNING GRUGER :DDDD

LE FUGS BE WID YOU LOOG :DDDDDD

Hey man, I am just being realistic what happens to radical democratic socialist governments, Allende and everything.

Guns aren't actually that rare tbf, Scotland has more guns per capita than India, England more guns per capita than Mozambique. That means 30k firearms in Scotland alone. Mind they are mostly rural, but still.
You're right about Liverpool and Manchester, and tbh holding control of London Would be difficult enough: it has more people than Austria.
As for a soft-coup, that is a possibility, but at the same time this isn't the 1980s: it would be far harder to pull that off in the modern world.
As for bobbies, they aren't free-thinking types but at the same time they fucking hate the current government and the army for fucking them.

Dude stop being a LARPer
No one is going to kill your 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧revolution🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

NoGuns unarmed subjects and slaves discussing revolutions and uprisings.
YIKES
-Sincerely, Zig Forums

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Do you remember when the police tried setting up an MP during Gategate? That must be around half a decade ago.
Just found this article which is pretty interesting going into that "coup" The Times announced, which apparently was just some General having a strop and saying he'd resign if Corbyn left NATO (behold the mighty power of the British military!)
Still an interesting read though:
vice.com/en_uk/article/vdxznj/we-asked-a-defence-expert-what-a-british-coup-would-actually-look-like

UK has like 80k troops with a bunch abroad, the army is so small at this point they would get rekt by a popular militia armed with meme guns.

Dude the yanks fucked up Allende, Peron, and Joao: none of them were explicitly pro Soviet. The british secret services had plans to coup Harold WIlson: and Corbyn would be the first anti-imperialist leader this country has ever had. If you think the black heart of high tory reaction is going to let that happen, you are a naive mate.

This tbh

Yeah the Shires doing absolutely anything is laughable. Greater Lancashire SSR soon.

Up the Three Countries Raterepublik.
Glory to the Yorkshire Dale Jamahiriya.
Death to all those who get in the way of the freedom of the people of Shropshire.

Well i still doubt it
In fact corbyn should go for a coup
See chehoslovakia
what are you brits gonna do if a coup actually happens?

No, there are more socio-economic classes than just workers and capitalists and it's important to understand that, especially in promoting global class consciousness, you can't just relate to different people in different cultures without an understanding of their unique experience, and in relation to yours. Having a more detailed tool of social analysis can never be a bad thing.

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Summon the spirit of Gaddafi.

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Depends, if I am in Manchester I join the red guards innit.
If I am back home in the rural South, I honestly have no fucking idea.

Are ak's common in uk

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No. Most firearms are shotguns or shooting rifles. Ironically, handguns are the rarest kind, being the most controlled.

A poor transmam not able to afford hormones is an identity which exists under capitalism, different aspects of their material circumstances intersect in their oppression as an individual, ignoring these issues will dishearten the effort of leftists, and once leftism becomes a goal for itself, it becomes an ideology rather than a movement.

don't

*Handguns are the rarest legal kind, they are found in the cities because gangs and that. But yeah, vast majority of guns in the UK are shotguns: since you know, farmers and farmers' mums.

In my country as well
How did ira got there guns btw?

Actually found these, interesting stuff.
ecnmy.org/engage/the-uk-has-more-licensed-gun-owners-than-you-might-think/

Well gun laws were way laxer back then (the IRA is one of the reasons gun law got so restricted in the UK), but a lot of them were smuggled into Norn from Ireland, which in turn came from the US (fucking burgers sponsored the IRA). The Prods already had guns (due to Norn policies favouring them), from the British government through collusion, and in one particular case from Apartheid South Africa (who also gave them fucking SAMs). There were also criminal gangs supply arms to both sides, since there was a tidy profit to be made from arms dealing.

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You forgot based Gaddafi!

Oh yeah, Kidaffei gave the IRA guns, along with stuff coming from Belgium and Czechoslovakia on a one-off basis.

It has got to the stage where people citing material conditions pisses me off, and I say that as a Marxist. So thanks for making me roll my eyes a little when I read Marx's worn out trope.

Radical idea: Stop fighting for stupid tiny shit like "muh hormones" and demand a better wage and some free fucking healthcare you dumbass yank.

queer identity is bourgeoisie

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meant for

but also applicable to
Boi that shit is fucking stupid and you know it

How is this different from any prol (cis or trans) not being able to afford to pay there rent, or medical bill, or car insurance (if your a burger)

They are the smallest oppressed group, and the smaller the group you pander to, the bigger your mass movement.

It's all there in Karl Marx's material condition dialectic science book on intersectionality.

...

maybe these transmem should think about why they cant afford hormones in the first place instead of demanding all socialist praxis be based around this one specific material gib they want

No that's stupid, gays/minorities etc not wanting to get murdered or descrimated against and pushing their own rights first and foremost over Marxism is not some bourgeois plot to disrupt labor reform. They are doing a good thing and have their hearts in the right place but in the worst way, only Marxism can actually end these things but idpollers are unread on the dialectics of society and when your Black facing huge police murders, poverty, cia spooks, racism, descrimination and poorer education you just might want to stop the police shooting you first before you democratically run your workplace which might be run by another black guy in the first place even if these problems are built into the Capitalist system. In some cases some idpol has been artificially created or funded but like everything political its a tool and not a inherit porky thing.

Steaming hot unpopular take. Not all idpol is bad praxis. Irish nationalism for instance could be anti-Anglo on the basis of Socialism and appeal to nationalist idpol rhetoric while building a better world for everyone.

It's just crap most of the time and a dividing factor.

lmfao

it's too late, you're all going into the gas chambers feet first

head first would be more threatening, dumbass

feet first is worse because you live for a few excruciating seconds, dumb dumb

Well you're going ass first into the Gulag

The type of people who post Facebook arguments with pictures of random nobodies as if this demonstrates "something" to actual leftists.

There's no such thing as a "unique" experience that one can understand. Insofar as any experience is actually unique, it's uncommunicated and incommunicable, therefore meaningless as a social fact. You yourself don't actually care about whether any culture has a "unique experience," supposing this "unique experience" were to be something unpalatable like child brides, human sacrifice, and blood feuds. You only care about the unique experiences of existing cultures insofar as the cultures conform in some relative sense to the wider global monoculture.

So all unique experiences are incommunicable. Idiotic non-sequitur.

Your examples are telling, things like the holocaust and the carpet bombing of vietnam are much worse.

For the most part.

It's not that pure social politics are always inherently bad - the original BPP existed to defend from racism, which at various points has been a genuine existential threat for groups of people targeted.

However if you look back to the roots of racial insanity and obsessions in the US, it often comes down to the interests of porkies very clearly pitting poor whites against poor blacks. There are multiple examples of this - one famous one is the aftermath of Bacon's rebellion, a colonial revolt in which black slaves and Irish-American indentured servants teamed up against the English (but also wrongfully massacred some innocent Indians). The attitude of class solidarity was gaining steam among workers in the early 1900s, too, and again here we saw race stirred up to defeat them - there were several politicians who were effectively populists with ideas geared towards helping the poor workers initially who turned to racism later. Pic related is one of the later examples, after the reformed Klan had come to dominate and re-dominate southern politics.

So the roots of this stuff generally lie in 'identity' being actively pushed onto the working class. And then it is that the targets have to defend themselves as a group - blacks, gays, Jews, Mexicans, you-name-it. They end up with valid reasons to stand for their rights.

What is wrong, and what we often mean when we say "idpol," is how even these defensive positions are gradually adopted by capitalism and/or corrupted into identitarian obsession. "Rainbow capitalism" for instance. Or Settlers-type stuff where it's plainly aimed to take what was once progressive rhetoric and repurpose it against class solidarity. Impossible, hair-splitting moral obsessions with cultural appropriation, 'queer' 'leftists' trying to rationalize their enthusiastic shit-eating support for Hillary Clinton, the New Black Panther Party and War on the Horizon who simply adopt racism as an ideology instead of trying to fight it with socialism and solidarity.

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Fucking this. People forget that liberals are reactionaries too.

Also, the BPP were a bad example of this on my part - they were Maoist. It'd be better for me to use the post-Stonewall gay liberation movement to illustrate this - they were to the economic left of modern gay politics, but their primary issue was gay rights. There's no question they achieved their goals on this issue, and that's not a bad thing in and of itself.

Fuck off back to reddit you retarded niggerfaggot

readsettlers.org/ch2.html

You should actually read Settlers' account of Bacon's rebellion. Some quotes:

Yes, abso-fucking-lutely.
Notice that any discussion about capitalism is derailed by these screeching retards.

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Settlers primary argument is that class interests don't unite 'races' and that race interests come first. Its position on Bacon's rebellion is not surprising. The rebels in this case did deal with actual Indian raids - just not from the tribe they ended up killing. If Bacon was wholesale anti-Indian, this isn't that surprising and it doesn't actually say that much about the character of the rebellion otherwise. Mark Twain hated the shit out of Amerindians for most of his life and for all intents and purposes was a massive racist against them, but he was ok with black people and was anti-slavery.

The rebellion's failure was also followed by beefed up race laws.

She's not a screeching retard, but she was a young boy and her father did take her to the city to see a marching band.

Oh look, it's Laurie Penny, professional wrecker, grifter and public schoolgirl.
Perfect example of white middle class privileged women kicking up a fuss about their oppressed minority group as a female for fame, power and money.

BTFO you dumbass faggot.

Oh I forgot the worst of all, she's a F*bian.

You're missing that they're "meaningless as social facts." They're only incommunicable in the sense that they have anything unique and truly subjective about them. That is, cultures only exist as social facts, not as "unique experiences."

Yes, they're quite telling, in that mine are cultural practices, and not specific historical events, you absolute moron. You accusing anyone of "idiotic non sequiturs" is ludicrous.

lmao
Yeah, Penny is a lot more dangerous because she's not a screeching retard, but a huge petty borg opportunist.

Hard disagree. The only way to relate to people is through an experience universal to yours. Namely the class struggle. Understanding each other's uniqueness is a waste of time, a bourgeois luxury.

Even if idpol can do good for some people it is not our business as socialists.