Why should I support open borders? Open borders are an impediment to communist revolutions...

Why should I support open borders? Open borders are an impediment to communist revolutions. If all those russian peasants were allowed to emigrate in 1917 the Russian revolution would have never happened. Ditto for 1940s China.

Immigration prevents communist revolutions in the countries the immigrants are fleeing and reinvigorates capitalism in the countries they enter.

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Free movement of labour.

"Workers of the world unite!" is the bare minimum of ideology it takes to be a principled socialist/communist/anarchist. If you reject this, you de facto reject socialism of any kind.

Then why didn't socialist states have open borders?
Then why did they shoot people leaving too?

I support open borders because people from shitholes pouring into nations like the USA is the number one way to make the 4th Reich a reality.

What non-CIA nigger would want to leave utopia? Obviously everyone who leaves is actually a spy and deserves to die. The Berlin Wall was merely to keep all the CIA rapefugees out.

people flocked the fuck to the Spanish Republic and that probably helped them in the Civil War, not that it ended up mattering

dude are you fucken ok

this is why

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the world is a global zoo where all animals should be allowed to interact freely

boons with racoons
lions with lambs
cats and dogs

all mixed together, all interacting freely, under communism gorillas will walk into your apartment and you will not be allowed to say no

animals of the world to the zoo
To the zoo
The ZOOOOOOOOS

Literally all the Russian Revolution did was cause the USA to crack down on organized labor in the USA and turn Europe Fascist because people thought Russia was gonna invade them and suck Moscow cock.

Also the USSR surviving WW2 allowed the USA to further destroy Leftism and keep Capitalism alive by bombing the shit out of places.

so let me get this straight. the Russian proles should have never bothered demanding their rights (despite the ongoing famine) because it's their fault Americans were cucked enough to let the CIA Orwellianize Washington D.C.? great fucking philosophy you have their genius. you should be an anthropologist.

Between communist nations, it allows for higher degrees of cooperation.

Between capitalist and communist countries, it allows the capitalists greater ability to sabotage the commies

Between capitalist nations, it allows the influx of cheap labour.

You really learn nothing.
If you weren't occasionally useful faggots for the establishment and a fun LARP, you'd have nothing.
Off topic, but do you wonder why people abandon the revolution so quick? Its because the people always fight on your behalf as a proxy for something else. Peace and Bread, land reform, resist foreign imperialism. No one ever signed up to sacrifice millenia of tradition so they could violently and lethally overhaul society on the hope utopia is resting around the corner.

Those aren't remotely the same thing; you can collectivize the means of production without changing anything re: borders.

that's why we are a materailist, not an idealist, ideology. free will is a meme.

Only between communist/socialist countries i guess. Everything else is pretty cancer though

Gorillas aren't monkeys.

Capitalists are the ones pushing for open borders because immigrants tend to not fight lower working wages. Its a push to keep wages down. Being selective over the movement of people from the outside is the only way we can maintain proper unions of workers not willing to be undermined.

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do { print "thank you kanye very cool!" print "I only support winners"} while True

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No socialist supports open borders. There's a reason for the Berlin wall, North Korean border policy, etc.: brain drain. Open borders is more of a distant futuristic idea in a theoretical communist world.

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pls, fag

this. it's a logical symptom given the properties of materialism, but not any kind of goal.

What do you think the Slavophile movement was grounded in? How about orthodox Christianity and peasent folklore?
Marxists think this is deep, but it is incredibly shallow. You have the mindset of accountants.

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it's astonishing how un-self-aware you are. do you know how many faggots come in here with no arguments calling us antifa and talking about muh nationalist idealism?
you're nothing special and you've put forward nothing I haven't seen 1000 times before
also
top fucking kek
be original. this isn't a taunt, I'm begging you.

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You shouldn't support open borders

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Do you think $1 billion counts for anything in the modern day? The US spends Trillions on welfare and government services. Interest on the debt is worth 1/3 of total military spending, and you think the capitalists want war for money?
Anyways, isn't it funny how you forget to mention our greatest ally in the middle east, and all their interest groups in Washington? I seem to recall AIPAC being the largest donor network in Washington.
Yes, I'm sure the capitalists are just manipulating the hicks, who we know control this country, for cash.

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In what way? We know damn well that complaining loudly in public will solve nothing, even if we sympathize with protestors that mean well, like in the early days of Occupy. No excuses for the terror, and all that. We are radicals expressly because we don't like being victims, something that wannabe-fascist frog shirt manbabies relish in.
If you're a burger, keep in mind that most of your "antifa" are not in the far left, just angry status quo liberals. Yes, there is a difference.
Outside of burgerland, not even liberals are pro-Israel; the far left considers it an apartheid state. Leave Zig Forums once in a while.
They manipulate everyone, even commodifying their direct opposition. Che Guevara t-shirts are an iconic example.

...

fuck succ dems, but not too hard, their better than hawks like clinton and obama

I could probably hatefuck a socdem if they were hot enough

Fascism is an entirely destructive ideology that disguises shilling for capitalist hierarchy and imperialism as patriotic brotherhood and traditionalism. Yes, fascists should be driven out of the public square, and don't pretend for a moment that you would accept communist speech. It's obvious that, whatever the reigning ideology or political movement, they will one way or another repress their opposition.

I really don't care for your false hand-wringing. You call burger antifa "fake" Antifa because you can't defend their actions. Thanks for trying to be honest, too bad you're deluded.
Too bad they do whatever they want. Liberals bitch and moan about how bad Israel is, but get on their knees and suck Jewish cock whenever an Israeli/Jewish interest group comes knocking. No one can be pro-Jewish enough, they just wish Israel would stop being so mean to those poor brown people.
If they can't they just destroy them. Heard of a turd positionist?

Give up. You're controlled opposition in denial. All your 'real' opinions will never bear fruit, and they're too autistic to work anyway. In the meantime you'll just circle jerk to "muh equality" and "muh materialism."

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Fascism is an entirely destructive ideology that disguises shilling for capitalist hierarchy and imperialism as patriotic brotherhood and traditionalism.
If fascism is a cloak for capitalism meant to hide its destructive nature, are you conceding that patriotic brotherhood and traditionalism are constructive? Things I never thought I'd hear from a lefty.

Anyways, you can continue to call anything with a hierarchy capitalism, or pull your head out of your ass and address reality like it matters. th1rd positionism has been persecuted harder than any red movement because th1rd positionism is the only ideology that recognizes the unique national characteristics of a people, and advocates for their independance from ruthless international forces. While you and the capitalists believe that people are economic units meant to be manipulated like marks on a ledger, only the th1rd positionists realize that external values such as tradition, identity, and striving for an external good give meaning and fucntion to human civilization. If the international communist movement hadn't done a better job preserving traditional cultures than the capitalists, they would be going throught the same nihlistic tailspin the capitalist West is going through right now.

Abandon this den of rats, none of the people who wrote the books that make you feel smart cared for the working man, just what the working man represented. The materialist internationalists have caused more human misery than any nationalist movement.

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So does the right-wing. Virtually every governing party of the right is more than willing to cooperate with Israel.

I honestly don't care about their actions, and anyone who does is seriously cloistered. If anything I would be impressed if they at least tried some shitty praxis like petty terrorism, but it's just fist fights and broken windows. College kids that don't really believe in anything and only want an excuse to break shit in public.
Keep in mind this is common everywhere now, but only in the US did it start like this from day 1.
Go complain to them about it, not us.
It's meaningless garbling. Fascists don't really have an alternative economic theory because they outright do not care about economics. In practice all they do is return to the capitalist status quo because they do not think it makes a difference.
If our ideals were worth achieving, they wouldn't be easy.
Sure, we probably won't live to see them hold ground, but I don't see that as an excuse to not try to have a coherent worldview.

I understand if the "fascism is capitalism in self defense" line sounds contrived, but it really is true. Pic related.
Good. :^)
Heard it a thousand times. We care about material reality, not masturbatory symbolism.

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Does your system do this. Marxists don't care about hierarchy, but the question is does your system engage in pick related.
If there's anything to be said about the general attitude of the populace of USSR, it was an overwhelming sense of optimism for the future.

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You missed the memo on th1rd positionism didn't you? Oh well.

I'd say you're pretty cloistered if you don't understand the implications of Antifa and their cooperation with the state. Four good men are in jail because the police pressed a peaceful protest into a voilent counter-protest, and then jailed these good men for self-defense.

The only reason you wouldn't care about this is if you had no plans to ever confront the vested powers of our society. Maybe that's because you support their fundamental ideology? I bet you could get a job working at a university no problem. Us? Good luck keeping your a job as a delivery boy.
We put up with it because we believe in our ideas and our people. The fact that people go out and put everything on the line for this movement is proof of our dedication, and that's something no one on your side has.
You aren't doing anything either. You think capitalism is the greatest evil to ever exist but think systematic nepotism is a conspiracy theory.
In practice they do more for the workers and peasents than any other system. I don't know if you want to concede capitalism a point there, maybe someday you'll realize hierarchy =/= capitalism.
If your ideals are worth achieving, work for them.
I mean, how do you not see the irony. If fascism is capitalism on the defensive, then by your logic, why is capitalism attacking fascism harder than Communism?
*Tips fedora.*

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Yeah that's why Proudhon, Bakunin, Sorel, Max Striner, and etc were loved by the Original Fascists. Feder who got Hitler into the Nazi Party was a fanboy for Market Anarchists who were in the Bavarian Soviet Republic.

...

Need I remind you what a turd positionist looks like?
If you're referring to the post-war era, what's a leader to do when the Zionist empire comes knocking?

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I didn't realize th1rd positionists rustled you guys this much.

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I mean, that isn't wrong. There certainly weren't any nihilistic "death of the soul" tailspins.

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Its true that being hungry and overworked is strangely life affirming. It helps that there weren't enough consumer goods to breed a consumer culture as well.
That considered, there was also the fact that all the traditional institutions which enriched the lives of the people were attacked from the outside, not subverted from the inside. Being persecuted cuts the fat and reminds people why its all worth it. Struggling under the Communist thumb developed these institutions in a way, that's why the Catholic church had a Polish renaissance at the same time the effects of Vatican II was crippling Western Churches.

Still, th1rd positionists presented the best option.

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You're only saying that they're not on your side because you can't defend their actions. Too bad you're so deluded as to believe they have nothing to do with your position.

The implication is that they are liberals LARPing as anarchists. What else is new.
Confront how? By complaining loudly? Power only grows from the barrel of a gun. Public protests can be useful recruiting grounds, but we'd be baffled if they actually changed anything.
Good luck with that. You're gonna need it.
Capitalism was a progressive force at one point, but now it's run its course and only eats away at society. Such is the march of history.
Of course nepotism exists as long as class warfare exists, but you have to be mentally ill to actually believe ZOG Occupied Government and other tinfoil nuttery. There is no mustache-twirling villain in the background ruining everything for no reason. The ruling class is simply acting in its own self interest, as are we.
Seriously? Fascist states were some of the most incompetently run in modern history. Sad charades of imagery and bloodshed that the bourgs put on while they keep their assets in order. The trains did not, in fact, run on time.
They aren't literally the same, but hierarchy is very much inherent to capitalism.
We are. Radical politics are deceptively boring. :^(
Because it's not needed right now. Neoliberals are still dominant, which is what capitalists prefer for the sake of the stability of their own class. But they will take what they can get.
<

Do you know how much of a cold, inhumane lunatic you sound like to most people? This is coming from a board that largely endorses violence in politics.
Only a self-absorbed ruling class child could possibly see wankery about culture as being more important to people than their livelihoods. Human beings are organisms with biological needs, and if these needs are not met, their minds tend to suffer. This is an objective fact.
Besides, there is no reason traditional culture could not be maintained under communism. Real tradition, I mean. Not the creepy palingenesis bullshit.

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I literally did defend their actions though, and I don't deny they're on my side. :^)
I'm not a pussy or a liar like you are.

Anyways, here's some more Futurism. I wanted to make the point about how much better it is, compared to "socialist realism."
Commies tout it like the period of SR wasn't a period of stunted cultural growth.

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Who is saying is? I'm pretty sure the Jews work on behalf of their people, like every other ethnic group has done throughout history.
You believe porky the capitalist is behind every corner manipulating the world for another dollar. I don't want to hear about mustache-twirling villains from you.
You're going to philosophize about how power works, you'll never grasp it. If you did, you'd need to wrangle with the same problems the right is working with.
Good luck retaining them when the state puppets attack and the corporations take down your platforms.
Not like it will ever be a problem though, because you're all fart-sniffing bourgouise internet leftists. You have no plans to ever take action.
I don't think Germany would agree with you, and if we're talking about well-run countries, folks in glass houses….
Its inherint to everything dumbass. Hierarchy is principle in organization beyond a small polity.
This is incoherent. Just accept that Fascism is seperate and radical and not some self-hating white bloodcell of the neoliberal body.
Did you think i endorsed the USSR? I wasn't expecting dishonesty at this point in the conversation. If you read the context, someone else pointed out that there was no nihlistic tailspin in the USSR, and I commented on a reason why. Now, stop pearl-clutching.
Like food. How many people did Mao and Stalin starve again? More than the fascists, but I already alluded to this.
Who were you explaining this to.
You don't live in the real world, you really don't.
Not, of course, what the peasents and workers say is their real tradition, but what you approve as the real tradition.

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You're right, that's literally the only thing that happened. There sure wasn't any socialism involved.
I agree dude. Khrushchev should've totally have pushed the button. That would've been good for proles the world over.

That's literally the point you reactionary simpleton. We don't fight for some fucking "utopia". We struggle as a result of the material conditions affecting us today.

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If the end of history isn't meant to represent a utopia, then you guys have false advertising.
Also, I can't say Communism would be my first choice for improving immediate material conditions tbh famalam.

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The Russian Revolution was a Godsend to Reactionaries. It single handy is why there is no possible hope for Communism. All the USA has to do to deal with China is drop some fleas with plague and they're all be dead if you think they would be a threat.

There was no hope for Communism when Lenin introduced the NEP and Stalin began the FYP.
Ultimetly, practical concerns conlflcited with ideology, and ideology will always fail when this is the case. Either the state dies and takes the ideology with it, or the ideology is sold or traded for time and resources.
There will always be practical concerns, so there will be no end of history.
Why not embrace struggle?

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GET BACK ON TOPIC

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Calorie intake on par with the US and while you could argue people were pushed to overwork in WW2 and during reconstruction, that was by necessity given the circumstances. Wages under Stalin operated under a piece-rate system (meaning you were paid depending on how much work you acrually completed) and wages after we're set in such a way that even the lowest paying could secure you a decent living.

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Pick one.
Also, I'm assuming these numbers are from Soviet sources. Definetly trustworthy, I'm sure all those forced laborers were as well fed as those numbers say they were.
Simply bullshit. The Kolkhozes increased in productivity each year, but wages for the peasents working them remained the same until the 50's at least. You want to talk stealing surplus value? The workers of the USSR were treated like assets, not people. It was the stolen labor of the peasent and worker that industrialized the USSR. Not to mention that a Soviet peasent had a lower standard of living than an American black. Disgraceful.

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Jews and other groups aren't monolithic hiveminds, otherwise socialism wouldn't exist in the first place, now would it?
After all, what could motivate workers to unite across ethnic and religious lines, against their bosses who they share religions and tribes with?
In your demented reactionary (high) fantasy, ordinary people have no fucking agency of any sort. There's no way that whites could despise their exploitation by other whites. No - it is, must be, and can only be - some dark outside eldritch force mind controlling us. We're all just NPCs controlled by evil Jewish mages.
The truth is, you despise whites. In particular white workers. For whenever white workers struggle for their dignity, you just denounce them as malignant golems.
Every piece of fascist eschatology is rife with lust for white blood: Be it the Turner Diaries, or Generalplan Ost, or any of the larping petty bourj failsons that walk into here. Your whole world view explicitly calls for the slaughter of whites by the millions. From Hitler to Evola.
Power doesn't come from identity, it comes from material relations. It's why a jewish prole can be exploited by a white capitalist. Of course fascists as yourself will deny this as it undermines the class collaboration fascist regimes subsist on.

Also Fascist Germany was a failure. To such an extend it was devastated, occupied, dismantled and suffered famine at the end of it. In between Hitler's rise and (inevitable) downfall, German workers were sacrificed by the millions on the eastern front, while the moneyed class of industrialists and financiers (like Krupp) grew fat off the slavery and plunder of other white Europeans.
Fascism isn't some revolutionary movement looking to overthrow capitalism: It never has, not in Italy, not in Germany, not in Romania, Hungary, Brazil, Spain, Japan or Thailand. It only serves to excise - what it sees as - the excesses of capitalism (I.e. socialism), not it's actual underlying system of material relations that culminate in the exploitation of workers by parasitic proprietors.
And while it's true that socialist countries suffered disasters, both the USSR and China never suffered famine again. Which mind - had been periodic for much of Russian and Chinese history. But then again. It doesn't matter even if what you said was true: You don't care anyway. You couldn't give a fuck about starving proles or whatever, you just want to be smug in your petty bourj moral self-righteousness.

You're as vulgar as you're unoriginal.

Also "Tradition" at one point included the ruthless slavery of millions of white Europeans as serfs, peasants, helots, thralls, and others forms of indentured labor. Though I guess you don't care about that, now do you?

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As usual. Soviet sources - which confirmed everything from Molotov-Ribbentrop, to Katyn, to the purges and the gulag - are only "reliable" as far as they smear socialism.
There's a difference between investing labor-power in expanding the productive forces, and spending it on private yachts and jets.
Not that I'd expect you to understand.

ahem, Grover Furr said those were forgeries

Communists shouldn't appeal to petty bourgeois morality.
"We shall not make excuses for the terror" and all that

Alright, I'm done for the night.
Here's few more for the road.
If you enjoy these, remember, one side embraces truth and beauty, the other views them as non-transcendental means to fill a human need.
In other words, we produce art, they produce propaganda.

Oh look at you, petty.
Small minded, unable to cope.
Merely a sophist.
One religious tribe never made this step, in case you haven't noticed.
Only in a world where people are never decieved. Hundreds of millions worldwide buy into the neoliberal dream, but would you tolerate rhetoric which attacked their agency? Our agency?
Simply delusional. I've stood up for the worker in every post I've made. Mere hierarchy does not oppress any worker.
Ah yes, this was proven wasn't it? No it wasn't, it was allied propoganda.
What's very convenient is the notion that a lack of evidence is the evidence.
If by power you mean self-actualization, get rid of your flag. You're a Marxist, simple as that.
I don't see many Jewish capitalists exploiting Jewish proles. A collective which enforces obligations high and low works, class conflict for as long as the end of history takes to arrive is not a workable system.
The USSR suffered famine in peacetime, Germany was fed until its lands were occupied. Who do you think you're fooling?
Hardly. Their efforts were in collaboration with the state in pursuit of the war effort. If what they did is slavery, what any other communist nation has done is worse than slavery.
Yeah, it was just that one time when the millions of people died.
That's also not entirely true by the way. The USSR had chronic agricultural issues, same for China. The USSR had to buy grain from the US for goodness sakes, do you think they were so well off?
Look at this guy talking about self-righteousness.
It also had literal witch-hunts. You're rambling.
Of course. No regime has ever lied on confidential documents to deliberately make itself look bad, that's simply not how it works.
This proves the trope of the envious communist. You don't really care about the siphoned surplus labor, all you care about is someone owning something nice which you don't have.
I mean, you understand the Soviet peasent was exploited more than the German worker, right? Just because the money was wasted and everyone was poor together doesn't make this not true.

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Because we exist in a capitalist system?

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Some more

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there is no Jewish proletariat. not even in israel. israel is a settler colony. read settlers.

This is next level retarded

readsettlers.org

from the river to the sea Palestine will be free

This is directly disputed by sources at the time. Are you retarded.
I'm not going to get into a game of "my source says your source is fake, no u." Millions of people starved to death and millions more were worked to death as forced laborers in peacetime. Many more millions died in other communist countries as well deep into the 20th century. You can talk it down from 60 million, but Soviet sources place it at 30 million. You can't handwave the suffering people in these nations went through.
Is Porky omnipotent and single-minded? That's how you treat him, and its how you think we treat the Jews.
Really? That was shit reasoning, frankly incoherent.
How about when he fucked up his agricultural sector because he needed to collectivize the peasents for "muh ideology" and millions of people starved as a result?
They had chronic food shortages. Your own source puts USSR consumption as % of US at 43%.
Also,
Kek.
Another source is listing natural famines, and doesn't list the 1932-1933 famine. Pathetic.
Did they mention the wheat imports, or did you memory hole that bit.

I see you've fallen back on the last refuge of the communist: Revisionist autism.
Of course you focus on agriculture, and neglect the forced laborers who also died by the millions. Hey whatever though.

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Nirvana fallacy, bud.
The only way things will ever get better in the long run is communism.

idpol liberalism parading as dialectical analysis.
Next

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Jewish workers were exploited in Russia just like all the others, and when the time came they sided with the Bolsheviks against the reaction, who - by the way - invited the allies to invade and occupy Russia.
Same goes for jewish workers in America and elsewhere: Most of them weren't business owners. In fact, it's only after jews fled Europe - who were often the ones with the means to escape abroad - that jews became a prominent cohort of the American bourgeoisie.
Meanwhile, even in America, jews don't even make up a plurality of the capitalist class. The wealthiest families continue to be old WASP money: Think Wilks, Kochs, Mars, Waltons, etc.

And while you've pretended to care about white workers, you still do not acknowledge the fundamental nature of class conflict. The dichotomy between the prole on the one hand - who has mostly nothing to sell but their labor-power, and the capitalist who owns the means of production and can buy and exploit labor-power at a discount.
Fascism doesn't acknowledge this. It still operates under a vulgar interpretation of classical economics where - if the managerial business owner is wealthier than the prole - it must be because the latter is working twice, ten times or a hundred times harder than the former.
After all, to acknowledge anything else, is to undermine fascist class collaboration. And the whole idea that the nation lives, breaths and acts as one for the benefit of all without discriminating based on class.

And even if we assume Generalplan Ost wasn't a real plan, Nazi atrocities are still evident throughout the war. Be it the slavery of fellow Europeans, the destruction of cities like Warsaw and Rotterdam, deliberate cultural destruction, massacres of civilians (Oradour, Lidice, etc.), orchestrated famines in Eastern Europe and cities like St Petersburg, the scheduled annihilation of Paris, etc.
Acts are louder than words. And as far as WW2 is concerned, the acts of the Nazi occupiers speak volumes about what sort of people they were. Much more than wishful propaganda.

And yes, the USSR suffered famine. But so did many other countries at the time. The Soviet authorities mitigated it even amidst trade restrictions and their status as an international pariah, and in the end the only time famine would ever struck again was in the face of the devastation left in the wake of the Nazi invasion. It still doesn't diminish the desirability or necessity of socialism. Even if Stalin was a literal baby-eater, and the Holodomor was an orchestrated genocide, we'd still be socialists. Because socialism doesn't necessitate or require either.
There's also a difference between putting convinced criminals to work and releasing them afterwards, and literal slavery of innocents, often to the point of death.
But again, you wouldn't understand because you don't subscribe to an actual class analysis. It's just all an (apocalyptic) battle between hiveminded races to you. If other Europeans were enslaved by the Nazi occupation, they were really just working for the betterment of their "race". Exploitation is not a thing that can exist between tribe members as far as Fascism is concerned.

Yes. God forbid we wish to be entitled to the fruits of our own labor. For all the complaints about "parasitic jews" you fascists are grossly offended when we subject our white bosses to the same standards. It's almost as if you're just the useful idiots of organized capita,l and are terrified of workers actually rising up as a result of their own class interests - regardless of race or creed.
Mind, for all I care, the gauche nouveau riche can keep their worthless jets, yachts and other trinkets they don't use anyway. I just don't want them to be bought off my exploitation.

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...

Was Hitler the ultimate accelerationist? He totally discredit ethno-nationalism for decades and enabled the full subjection of the proles to bourgeois morality. Kinda impressive tbh.

Ftfy
Did you even read the other stats I posted from the same source? Calorie intake differs from consumption. People in the US generally ate more singular product, but the calorie intake for both countries leveled out to about the same. Russia and its surrounding countries are mostly agarian, they do not intake a lot of meat product, while in the US they intake more meat and other products. In the US the diet was equivalent to general calories.
There was literally a drought and an outbreak of plant rust. If there is an actual group of people to blame for exacerbating the problem, it's the kulaks who burned their crops and killed their livestock rather then assist anyone.
Did you even listen to my point of wheat ==EXPORTS==.
You really have run out of arguments

Source on "muh gulags" btw

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Why should borders be kept in socialism?

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bordercucks and natkiddies both get the bullet

is of economical because one bullet kill both while they of makings out

I love this gorilla.

If you destroy cultures, races and other idpol the only thing left is your social class.

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