I don't know the science and neither do most people. However what I've been exposed to doesn't suggest anything conclusive, in fact the very logic of the arguments reveal nothing concrete.
I would like to know what is exactly occurring in the IPCC and climate scientists went from warning about global cooling to warning about global warming to simply "climate change".
Climate change seems to serve a handful of uses. First it expands the range of fictitious capital in nature. We see a movement to commodify emissions and create a market for trading carbon futures. Second this contributes to the under development of developing nations. China for instance relied heavily on coal to power its rise to a middle income country. As soon as they were ready to move forward in their energy networks they turned around and embraced the entire carbon scheme pushing forward to higher value added industries.
What about the doomsday predictions that vacillate, where every 10 years there is a new doomsday that never materializes?
What of the non-melting ice caps?
What of the climate-gate emails?
What's happening, seriously, this isn't a right wing screed. The IPCC seeks to generate trillions of dollars worth of investment through taxation, seeing as the capitalist metropoles are experiencing a dearth in investment I can't help but wonder if the specific purpose isn't just to revitalize capitalism and institute a new malthusianism while they're at it.
Serious answers only, there is a lot I'm not aware of in this conversation.
So there is less ice, what does it mean, is it good or bad?
Thomas Reyes
One thing everyone should be aware of is if you read a textbook on economics it says that Marx is wrong and it has a million and one graphs to show you why.
Simply posting videos proves nothing. Explain what they mean or why they matter.
Andrew Stewart
it means you're a fucking moron, especially for comparing climate science to economics
Josiah Thomas
It means all that water that used to be frozen and on land is no longer on land, hence sea levels rise which threatens to fuck up all sorts of low-placed areas, a lot of them very densely inhabited. The refugee crises that will be caused by sea levels rising are unimaginable. The rise of the temperature of the oceans also fucks ups the ecosystem because the temperature change in addition to all sorts of pollution and overfishing is killing the coral reefs and exterminating wildlife, not to mention climate instability and the sort of storms and typhoons that are already being seen as amplified by temperature changes. The worst part is once a critical point of temperature rise is passed it spirals out of control due to its own reinforcement. Besides the effects of it all on agriculture, desertification and the destruction of wildlife. Capitalist industrial society is wasting away the world's capacity for supporting complex lifeforms for the sake of the bloodsucking monster that is capital.
They're both academy sciences, of course they can be compared.
Chase Reyes
You didn't explain anything, just repeated dogma.
Jose Reed
The way I see it is that climate change being real is in no obvious way a benefit to the rulling class, which is why you see so many climate change deniers coming from conservative think tanks. Climate scientists have warned about climate change caused by CO2 emmisions for at least half a century, and the scientific community seems to have come to an overwhelming agreement at this point. I see no reason to believe that the scientists are ideologically motivated on this, and see no reason to believe the climate science is being pushed by some influencial group trying to fool us somehow.
Truth be told I think the same, I need to be sure though.
I'm actually involved in climate activism. I don't know what the hell is wrong with people here thinking it's all so obvious. Why don't you go and be a liberal if this is your standard of evidence?
Oliver Ortiz
I critically support the petrochemical industry against ecological imperialism.
Julian Bailey
ecoimperialists sabotaged Chinese socialist construction by forcing them to invest in fake green energy if you disagree you're basically a fascist imperialist petit bouj labour aristocrat
Isaac Green
Kill yourself bro…
Benjamin Myers
that sounds like something an ecofascist would say tbqh
Austin Price
Ban the shitposters please.
Jose White
How can you call yourself a Marxist and be so incredibly ignorant of the ecological effects of capitalism and its rammifications? Where do you even want comrades to start explaining b/c some vague question of "Prove me wrong about something I don't know about" is an impression everyone is getting here.
Wyatt Roberts
Agreed comrade. Like the wise Deng once said : "Socialism with Chinese characteristics = CPC+fossil fuel." I hope B.O. will soon permaban every ecoimperialists of this board.
Connor Turner
I don't study ecology.
If someone could give a detailed explanation of various climate models that would be good. If someone could give an explanation of the history of the climate change debate that would be good as well.
If someone asked me to explain Marxism I could easily talk about historical materialism, the birth of capitalism, different theories of value and why we need one, why neo-classical economics is wrong, how the predictions of marxism work, history of the various movements, controversies like the rate of profit etc.
If you actually know the ins and out it's not hard.
Xavier Barnes
what standard of explanation would satisfy you, oh intrepid seeker of truth? Or is dogma just anything you don't want to hear?
Chase Mitchell
Post the paradigmatic papers if you know them.
Dominic Foster
So when you asked "why ice melt bad??" you didn't actually want anyone to explain why ice caps melting was bad, you wanted to have climatology papers linked to you, is that the gist of it?
Angel Johnson
I want both, what is wrong with you? You don't have to answer everything just what you can.
Ayden Davis
But you dismiss one as dogma and the other as capitalist conspiracy? Its hard to view you as acting in good faith here.
No. The apocalypse isn't gonna happen in a few decades, but it is real. Evidence in favor of it is abundant, far more so than is reasonable to expect from a conspiracy if you aren't a literal retard that believes in the Illuminati ZOG Occupied Government or some other tinfoil fantasy. In fact, there is even solid proof that Exxon tried to cover up evidence of AGW.
The reason no one is acting on it is simply because it won't lead to catastrophe until everyone currently alive is already dead.
Nathaniel Nguyen
climate science is an actual science, economics is a religion with math
Connor Richardson
Climate change isn't something new. You should know this.
Scientists have been discussing it with world leaders since the 1970's, saying "you guys really should do something like this before the end of the century". But nothing was done. As of right now, it's probable that we're basically already in hot water, pun intended. 1 or even 1.5 degree C global warming is inevitable even if humanity (and all its future carbon emissions) disappears overnight. What we're trying to prevent right now is this turning into a 2 or 3 degree C difference. For comparison, 5 degrees C difference is what we had back in the Eocene (the hottest Earth has ever been) when there was no ice anywhere on the planet, Antarctica was a temperate forest, and sea levels were something like 200 meters higher than they are now.
Unless something is done, probably before the end of the century, we're going to be halfway to THAT.
Even if you think climate change might not be real, this is a threat to huge to ignore. This isn't "your car's engine isn't performing perfectly, so it needs to be replaced, lol give me money"; this is more like "your car's engine is about to explode and kill you and your family, because you insist on putting moonshine in the gas tank, you should stop that!" And even if climate change ISN'T real, so what? Fossil fuels are going to run out, someday. Humanity will have to switch to 100% renewable energy sources, someday. If we do it sooner, rather than later, that's one less thing to worry about, and a lot less people living with horribly polluted air.
Mason Turner
Not a single study has been posted, at the very least.
As I said before I participate in climate activism so yes I'm not oblivious to pascals wager.
Asher Garcia
I don't like "noble lie" bullshit. Intellectual dishonesty is a good way to make everyone hate your conniving ass as soon as they find out (and no, you will not be the first person to get away with it in the long term). Fascists are universally despised for a reason, and it started long before political correctness was a thing. AGW being an objective fact, or at least the most plausible view, is all that we need to know.
Nathan Wright
You're never going to convince people that believe that it's not real, that it is. No more than you can convince flat-Earthers that the Earth is round, or convince Christians that God is a bronze-age fairy-tale. It's a waste of effort, and has done nothing but result in the gridlock we've seen for the last 50 years.
I mean, if you want to prolong the argument until human extinction, and the last two people on the cinder are still debating whether or not it's happening, sure! Go ahead. I'd rather do something that might actually force a change to the better.
Austin Allen
So you don't know? Sounding very religious right now.
James Fisher
So what? Reality doesn't go away when you ignore it. If they want to continue ignoring, that is their choice, but we retain the right to act on it.
You know we're just going to google some studies and link them here. Do it yourself.
Easton Ross
Science is not a "sure" kind of thing. Ironically, THAT is what religion is like, because that's "faith" and faith is allowed to be completely sure.
That said, I'm 99% sure climate change is happening because there's plenty of evidence for it, and this can even be substantiated with self-gathered evidence from within our own lifetimes. I'm 99% sure that it's caused by human carbon emissions, because there is nothing else that has been shown to be even capable of causing the level of changes we've seen (like Zig Forums's oft-quoted and farcical "it's teh volcanoes!!" thing). I'm 95% sure that what we're seeing is a long-term trend that will result in very bad shit, based on extrapolations from when this sort of thing has happened before (like the aforementioned Eocene).
I can't be sure. I can't even be sure that I'm a human being and not a brain in a vat. You can't be sure that I'm a human and not a robot or a figment of your imagination. But it's close enough that, again, because this is so dire and because dealing with it has many positive effects beyond the whole "not causing human extinction" thing, it's more than good enough to support taking action.
Ian Walker
No, you don't. Because YOU are not in charge. You don't control jack shit. Your only hope to save the lives of your great-grandchildren is to convince THEM.
Easton Cook
Personally I think global ecological collapse is good evidence in favor of revolution, but that's just me.
How do communists not fucking know the literature.
I will study it on my own of course but this is embarrassing.
Caleb Hernandez
That's because you're a retard with a messiah complex who thinks that, should a global revolution occur, he'll be among the brave freedom fighters that rise from the ashes and forge a new society. When, instead, you're practically guaranteed to be one of the billions of corpses.
What you're doing is advocating a giant game of Russian Roulette on the off chance that you, personally, might be a winner.
Eli Nguyen
Then we're fucked I guess? Oh well.
Caleb Baker
If humanity does not embrace socialism it deserves to go extinct.
yeah, its not a question of deserving, humanity will go extinct.
Mason Garcia
Well, I hope at least I gave you some useful information, tank user. Good luck out there. It's clear this is a silly place. Instead of anti-semitism because we're all Nazis, it's anti-semitism because we're all Marxists. Bunch of fucking idiots, all.
Dominic Wilson
We have more regard for the teachings of a Jew than a typical Christian does.