S-socialism has only ever been attempted in third-world shitholes!

prague spring wasn't a revolt against the socialist system you dunce, it started as a series of liberalisations and get crushed because dubcek and his economic advisors were a bunch of socdem shills who wanted to introduce market reforms.

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Oh, they wanted "liberalisations" (why would they demonstrate in the first place if socialism was so great?), but somehow a small group of people managed to hijack the whole thing.

Except that during second or in some cases first free elections most people voted for their ex communists, furthermore in most interviews people are specific about what they miss about socialism, which usually high quality of life and social benefits. Besides there are plenty of interviews and articles from 2009, back when people were still young. Anyway, you posted picture of Czechoslovakia, a truly developed nation with quality of life as high if not higher than in the west, despite never having any colonies or ever engaging in any imperialism, and with almost no natural resources. Here's the thing, both Czech and Slovakian Republics have left wing government. Czech republic even has a communist party in a ruling coalition and president of Czech republic has even refused to commemorate Prague Spring. Slovakia has ex communist social democratic government that is somewhat pro Russian. Having said that, there is a lot of anti communist propaganda everywhere, even in Russia solchenitzyn is mandatory, there are plenty museums of communists > and museum of Bolshevik crimes in birthplace of Lenin, Ulyanovsk and even fucking john mcain has museum in yeltsin center. So anti left wing propaganda is very, very strong *everywhere*

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I guess capitalism must be really shit according to you since people demonstrate against it all the time

You are showing a very deep understanding of politics and history and have come into this thread very well prepared. I am impressed.

Future generations will laugh at idiocy of current people, but Just 100 companies responsible for 71% of global emissions, or in other words 100 people are destroying this planet.

because believe it or not you can want change without wanting to completely dismantle the system

Everyone thinks the past was better because in the past we weren't as fucked by capitalism as we are now.

The poll from the image I posted is from 2009. Do you suppose 72% of the Hungarians that responded were elderly?

Only zoomers have valid opinions.

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nah, this means they were actually all young college liberals who don't know how awful socialism was, if you asked just those who lived under it they'd all tell you they hated it.

okay so first you say that all the old people who lived under socialism want it back
but now you're saying thety don't? i doubt over 70% if the czech population is just "liberal college students" (and last time i checked liberals don't like communism, but i wouldn't exlect you to be able to tell the difference between leftists and liberals).

Except that isn't the case. Younger people have been brainwashed into thinking it was worse while people who lived in it defend it as better.

nah, nah, when people who lived through socialism say socialism was bad they're tragic victims of communism who had to eat twenty of their baby brothers just to survive the holodomor when stalin took all their free markets away, when they say socialism was good they're just deluded old farts nostalgic for being young and dumb.
When people who didn't live through socialism say it was bad they're based patriots keeping their country safe from the commies, but when they say socialism was good they're latte-sipping collage liberals tweeting about how bad drumpf is from their CAPITALIST iphones

My mom was born and raised in the Soviet Union in moscow and lived there until its collapse and then stayed there until 1997 at which point she emigrated.

I had a lot of conversations with her about the Soviet Union and how life was back then and whether she misses it or not …her answer?

Education was free, so was housing so that's the part in which that Era was “better”
Compared to western countries, education was horrible
Housing was terrible, 3 -4 room apartments which had to fit 3–4 different families in them …except for high ranking officials who had their own apartments
Food and “luxury” items were very very hard to come by and even more difficult to purchase …by luxury I mean - bicycles, cars, tvs and clothing … my mom always said that no one ever had money for decent looking clothes and people with connections always used them to get all the above items from countries such as Poland in my mom's case …she had dresses, a bicycle, high heels and even a leather made school bag …all from Poland because the Soviet Union had nothing at all (Poland wasn't actually a part of the USSR. ..it had its own government and agendas and wasn't part of the block unlike Russia, Belarus, Azerbaijan etc …)
Everything was corrupt
Everyone was poor unless you were part of government in some way (factory owners who got appointed by the governmen, high ranking officials etc …)
She's Jewish so she was always mocked at school and always got rejected from university until the day she faked her last name into something Russian sounding
Life was all about work
Wanna buy a toy for your 5 year old daughter? Sure no problem …get into the queue and hope that by the time your turn comes it won't be too expensive or had gotten out of stock …average waiting time for such things could range from days (toys, food and the like) to months (cars and tv’s)
the supermarkets were constantly half empty.
The Media was controlled by the government so either everyone had very very little knowledge of the outside world or had no knowledge at all …they all thought they're doing really well and were happy until the iron curtain came off and they realized they got fooled ever since the 50’s. ..
So yeah … my mom is thankful that the “golden era” has passed and she once told me that I should be thankful I wasn't born in the Soviet Union because life there was just sad. And my mom was considered to be lucky cause her gran had contacts almost everywhere.

This is literally the level of most anti-communist rhetoric

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_home_ownership_rate

etc.

lmao who do you think you're fooling?
Ah, typical.

Lie harder.

wow user your anecdotal story that you didn't provide any evidence for really changed my mind

That's not lie, thought. Czechoslovakia and Hungary were very good for the time. Baltic's too.

...

What the fuck that is exactly the same story i posted too!
Like what the fuck
But also both my dad and granddad were KGB agents so we ate caviar out of baby skulls while poor people propped up our feet.

This post brought to you by Balkans Gang.

I'm an actual Pole and i've never heard a more blatant lie than Poland of all places 'having more' than USSR. Soviet goods were some of the best available in Poland. Everything you wrote directly contravenes statistical fact and my family's experience. Do you work for the Victims of Communism foundation by any chance, or just CIA?

The story keeps changing

Israel does it again!

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Ok I'll admit I just wondered about the demonstrations and the Solidarity Movement in Poland and using bait is 10x more effective at getting replies and actual information than trying to ask genuinely, when I barely get answers.

lmao

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fakest shit I ever heard lmao
I wish upon you to live under socialism the way you present it, it's the least retards like you deserve

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My fucking sides.

Sure, if you say so lad, seems legit ngl.

Government was illiterate and kinda crappy.People were right to protest, but at the end of the day everyone wanted better life under socialism, rather than crapitalism.

Remigijus Naucas is Lithuanian name and lastname :)

Now the real reason I am skeptical about socialism is because the government almost always turns bad for some reason or another after a certain point of time, with no explanation as to how that could happen in the first place. How could they let such morons into power, everywhere from China to USSR (post-Stalin) to Romania etc.? And why is it not inherent to socialism?

see

Most leaders of any country, unfortunately are morons. Having said that, government of Poland was not bad as in evil, it was bad as in to dumb to fix things in country that was destroyed so much by WW2 and has cold winters. Difference is that in the west, government are evil who have it more easy (mostly better geography)

Because it happens everywhere. The exact same thing you describe is happening to every western government. The thing about marxism is that it recognized this problem and seeks to adress it by creating a worker owned entity to rival the government and force it into correcting itself.

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I wouldn't say these people are morons. They're opportunists and revisionists in it for their own gain, not for building communism.
Example, on the development of a nation-wide cybernetic system that would revolutionize planning and allocation: aeon.co/essays/how-the-soviets-invented-the-internet-and-why-it-didn-t-work

No they weren’t. With the exception of Germany they were all pretty backwards, at the very least by European standards and in general as well. Whatever development they did have was severely reduced by the war.

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youtube.com/watch?v=Kn7E-wW-lXM

If Albania was so hellbent on keeping socialism, why did they become capitalist again?

Albanians voted for socialist in one of the first '''free' elections.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_parliamentary_election,_1997

Unfortunately without Soviet or Chinese protection, Albania was already under control of western capital.

The PZPR was incompetent from the start for a long number of complex historical causes besetting the polish communist movement and as a result Polish 'socialism' was rather half-arsed.
Still pulled off the eighth largest economy in the world for a while and had some very impressive accomplishments (rebuilding the country after the war in five years in spite of a lack of reparations, turning what was a pretty overwhelmingly agrarian country into an urban, industrial one, ensuring 100% literacy and 0% unemployment and homelessness and ensuring a general comfortable modern way of living). One of the chief roots of the problem was the unwillingness to carry out collectivisation, the government distributed land in the new western territories taken from germany after the war to peasants in collective and state farms, but the existing polish agriculture dominating pre-war polish territory was left overwhelmingly in the hands of small private farms.
This led to a degree of inefficiency which could not keep up with the ridiculously large population growth Poland consistently experienced, almost doubling. However the government was insistent on keeping food prices low through subsidies which were quite costly and required food imports. Then in the late 70s western banks called in the bill and demanded the government stop subsidising food, they did which meant food prices went up causing protests and strikes. There was legitimate anger by workers against revisionism in the party from which came the 1980 Solidarity movement but because of CIA infiltration and funding it quickly got purged of the communist elements and became fixated on wrecking and generating outrage against the government. PZPR let go of the reins and Jaruzelski stepped in with martial law which pissed everyone off and is the most unpleasantly remembered thing about the PRL. Then it all started collapsing with the rest of the Eastern bloc and the few elements of the PZPR and the security services, corrupt to the bone, just tried to profiteer from the fall privatizing state enterprises and taking them for themselves. Hell they even still won the elections against Solidarity by a large margin and then presided over some of the worst shock-therapy. Then there was just an endless stream of privatisation, and imported thatcherism which destroyed industry entirely. You know how Solidarity started out as a dock-workers trade union? Well back then Poland was one of the largest ship manufacturers in the world, they were bought the world over. 10 years after Solidarity 'won' the dockyards are all closed down, we don't make ships anymore and Solidarity has lost all their membership.

I remember seeing on Wikipedia list of largest economies in the world during cold war, on Poland indeed was rich, but I can't find it now. Do you have any English sources on accomplishments of socialist Poland?

This was the story in many post socialist countries of the Warsaw Pact.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_parliamentary_election,_1993

The Democratic Left Alliance is social democratic and the People's Party is agrarian.

Not that i can think of in particular. Not many people write about eastern bloc states. I should make a fact sheet some day.

It was common, it happened in Russia too, but i was referring to the 1989 election where Solidarity stood against PZPR. Still in 1993 the SLD who were just the same opportunists of PZPR who renamed after PZPR got banned won and continued their garbage neolib policies. Still showed how quickly the public turned back to wanting socialism as soon as they lived through how shit capitalism was making everything.

My point exactly. The parties were ex communists spineless cucks, but the votes did reflect peoples opinions and thoughts.

Gives examples of countries that had a mega boost in economy and standard of living because of socialist policies. It was socialist policies that propelled these shitholes into the top 30 countries in the world.

they didn't demonstrate against it but for reforms
they did so after revisionist policies lead nowhere but stagnation
it was then however revisionists under the mantle of reform who imposed capitalism on the people
which lead to mass poverty, misery and death
people there still today have a mostly favorable opinion of those times

No, they hated the use of militarized force and repression of dissent. The economic policies that the communists implemented were seen as the upside to being in the Soviet bloc.

Oh shit, you have an unsourced info graph, guess you're right. Isn't that the exact same thing you make fun of Zig Forums for doing?

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pewglobal.org/2009/11/02/end-of-communism-cheered-but-now-with-more-reservations/
Could'nt you google it

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tbh he's right, images like that should be sourced.

True

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The Prague Spring was between Trots and M-Ls. Capitalists had nothing to do with it.

Not Trots
Eurocom and MLs
Iirc Most chehoslovaks see it that way, as communist infighting

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oh so the images need sourcing
but the retarded shit he spewed doesn't?
what an unsurprising double standard from you

No, It doesn't. Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of contemporary history knows what the Hungarian revolution was.

Aside from other responses, I'm going to be honest lad. These countries were all initially formed from Soviet occupation, and their political institutions were heavily influenced by the USSR, even in the case of countries that had subsequent revolutions like Hungary. The big umbrella of "socialism" that is draped over every country that became a satellite of Russia in an attempt to make "socialism" in general look intractable is tiresome. What is interesting is the different ways in which these countries approached their situation over time, but this almost always still came out of single party rule and dictatorships. One of the few continents that had mostly peacefully elected socialist parties, South America, basically had all of them toppled by the United States, which is a shame because aside from the Bolivarian revolution we don't get to see how they would have developed in that more self-determined, democratic context.

Usually they’re in protest of corruption, authoritarianism, or Soviet meddling in domestic affairs (which is why these things usually happened in satellite countries and not the USSR itself). Often the protestors were explicitly fighting for what they saw as a more genuine form of socialism.

Yo Slovakian here. This is what my mom and dad said about communism: "It worked we had quick health care not unlike now but western products were nonexistant and there were food shortages and not so much to pick from" "If i wanted vacuum cleaner i had to wait for weeks but this system worked and i had good work on farm -mom" "We had to be toghether if you knew no one you got shittes job ever if you knew people you was king and i was king -dad"

This is what my grandpa said "Communists were arresting gypsies and were keeping thier population in check. I was STB agent i had to hide lots of times your grandma escaped to Denmark and i had to be silent about it because they would kill us"

So yea communist worked but it was pretty much hardcore dictatorship.

What I'll say is that under socialism people were isolated from the outer world and had less freedom, and were in a generally more authoritarian regime. They would go to Croatia in summer. They didn't really have religious freedom, for example, teachers couldn't go to church. In the case now you've got more freedom but people's wages are low, they are sad that everything is so expensive, that it's harder to find a job opposed to everyone, even gypsies, having one. This may be not because of capitalism but how it is implemented, or that our government is very corrupt, or so so people here say. Basically, socialism gave us gibs, and now we're in the EU for the same reasons as it takes away from our sovereignty.

You have to be working to receive anything, so I don't see how its gibs. Gibs implies you receive stuff without doing anything for society.

Yeah, the jist is that they were financially sanitized or felt so.

yes, fascist terrorists, a small organized minority trying to coup the government, getting what they deserved
read a book, fag

See…

Any Socialist that attempts to damage control for the Hungarian Counter Revolution is deluding themselves
they should go to Hungary on the Anniversary of the uprising and try to tell people that it was actually a socialist movement
be fun to watch them get beaten to death by Literal Horthy'ist / Arrow Cross Worshiping retards

Yeah, fuck them for wanted to get rid of an oppressive authoritarian regime. They should have just taken it like a good little Soviet puppet state. That way they could have felt daddy Stalin's mustache tickling their tender boipuccis. Fucking Fascists.

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...

mh, and the problem with them getting killed instead… is only just perspective and you being a faggot hypocrite who'd only do good feeding the worms

I agree Comrade, It's only okay when we mass murder people to achieve political power. Please stop it with the homophobic language before you get sent to the reeducation camps. Don't be such a fascist.

ah, yes, of course
how was that thing about sources
oh yes, only needed when things are stated (and obviously true for anyone ever doing his research) that you don't like
how convenient
here's a little something for you to know:
there is no tear to be shed for fascist terrorists
they should've also been dragged alive behind a tank through the streets before hitting reverse to finish the job

The Hungarian Counter-Revolution was rightfully crushed as it was a Reactionary and Anti-Socialist action

After Kadar satisfied the people with his Reforms little crisis would occur for the next few decades

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Yes comrade, Like I said, It's only okay when we do it. When other people do it, then it's bad.

ok comrade
now that you type like this
it makes it more clear
to understand
what you are trying to say
fuck those evil fascist terrorists
take daddy stalins mustache right in the boipucci
no lubricants

squeal some more, my little "antiauthoritarian" fascist terrorist lover

are you unironically a ☭TANKIE☭ and just trying to make these guys look worse than they are?
i mean, the irony is too thick not to be intentional, unless you are so damn retarded that even the strongest opponents of euthanasia would give in

Yes it is literally you dumb little Moralist

Fucking fascists trying to reclaim their own country, I agree comrades.

Yes comrade, when we do it it's good. We are good therefore our actions are good, because we are the good guys. Everyone who refuses to be dominated by us are obviously fascists who are also bad and stupid and not nice.

Moralism is not an Argument
All states exist to preserve the Interests of their ruling Class
The Hungarian Counter-Revolution was an attempt to take power from the Ruling class (The Workers) and place it back into the hands of the capitalist class

and we're done, wasn't so hard, now was it

Yes comrade, we were simply preserving the rule of the workers, totally not some kind central committee composed of foreign agents.

Arguments are actually spooks, try reading a book sometime.

Being in a Beuracratic role within goverment does not prevent someone from being working class
the Idea that being in goverment Prevents someone from having a Worker's class character just makes this post scream Lolberg
Citation needed + Plus this part just screams Zig Forums

You have to actually work to be considered working class though. ;)

Are you claiming government employees are not working class?

yea

Czechoslovak Socialist Republic never had food shortages. You were not able to eat bananas or oranges every day, but stores were full off food grown in ČSR.

200 forints just were deposited from Soros fund.

bullshit. ČSR did not get anything for free. Food coops produced more than today's literal EU gibs to farmers, and industry was much more diversified.The biggest problem of socialism was that people in charge of important stuff consisted of "most equal" comrades and you couldn't meme about it without being harassed by police.

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