Feminism

I oppose bourgeois feminism which is obsessed with having more women CEOs and women in positions of power and doing not much more. I just agree with people like Kropotkin in saying if you want to liberate humanity you can’t leave half “chained to the stove”. Not to mention I can’t see any non-spooked reason a woman shouldn’t have identical rights with males. So if I were asked about whether I was a feminist or not I’d probably say “yes”.

Bourgeois feminism is just as bad as rainbow capitalism

Marx and Engels have conceded that the incorporation of females into the capitalist working-force will be ultimately progressive for the fact that when a socialist/communist society is instated there will be a pre-existing foundation for women's liberation from capitalist relations, and women will not have to be acclimated to a proletarian work-force from being housewives.

Further, there is a global proletariat of working-class and enslaved women due to porky imperialism in the Global South. They disproportionately work in factories abroad due to their specific form the commodity of labor-capability takes in women - hands that are perceived to be small and nimble, the vunerability of their position as mothers and the underclass of men. Forgive my third-worldism, but it is myopic to assume that women have been fully incorporated considering the existence of the global south as a perpetual reserve-army of labor

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As long as it’s a matriarchal femdom masturbation fantasy I’ll be okay with this

Why should men hold those resources exclusively? Men aren't good or special enough to merit it

House-work is domestic slavery and an institution oppressed by the proletariat and forced to bear more workers and for porky and maintain the working class outside of work

Because it's in their material interest to do so?

It’s in the material interests of capitalists to own the means of production and employ wage-laborers for as cheap as possibly and cut as many costs as possible. Your point?

You're pretty much justifying the wholesale slaughter of men right now fam.

Enlighten me on how

And I suppose you expect capitalists to willingly oppose their material interest?

By equating gender and class issues. Apparently men will never extend their privileges to women diplomatically or through reform, so women need a revolution against men.

I think history has proven that gender issues can be by and large resolved diplomatically or through reform. While issues still exist today they’re by and large rather minor from my point of view. It’s obviously different for capitalism and time and time again it becomes obvious that revolution is the only way. Another user was talking about material interests in connection with men so I drew a simple comparison. That doesn’t mean that they are identical in everyway or that I advocate for the “slaughter of men”.

This board can unironically suffer from class reductionism. Take some notes from Sankara

wahmen are bad, man too but wahmen more

And tranz are worse than both of them

we're not. Engels practically was a feminist.

why are you so transphobic?

when has anyone here ever said that
I've seen people say something closely resembling that, that I think you're trying to strawman- they've said "women are scum but so are men", or variations on that, and its ALWAYS been with the intent of pointing out that they're both equally shit in general, that misanthropy>misogyny.

meant to reply to

I'm sure feminists in the global south have interesting things to say on that front and hard struggles to engage in. The extremely online kind of people who post here and elsewhere in the online leftyverse calling themselves feminists, not so much.

you don't have cock, you will always be less then lmao

bye bye båboons!

You are 100% correct, I should have been clearer that I was talking about feminism within imperialist countries.

the point of is just to show the unscientific-ness of mainstream feminism. men are just supposed to give women all these rights because "it's the right thing to do", but as we know from conservatism "the right thing" is often another word for "bullshit", what we should be asking ourselves is what the most fundamentally effective thing is to do toward the end of maintaining civilization.

This is idpol tier bullshit. Women are about half the population of earth and half the proletariat. There shouldn't be gender bias when determining human rights.

...

No, you can't examine sex without understanding the sociopolitical system that encompasses it. Sex antagonisms have to be put in a historical and class context, or it is ahistoriacal utopian bullshit.

people with PPs arent women user

Good taste. First two books in the list are fire, the true red pills.

This.
WOMEN HOLD UP HALF THE SKY

…which is why, again, we have transhumanism. And you dismiss it as a fantasy every time despite standing in the very way of realising it. So much for the disciplined right.

wonen are gay and stupid

It's literally because we're all men here. That's all there is to it.

...

agree with

the problem with discussing feminism or other issues related to sexuality is that we have a bunch of redditors, unread Zig Forums converts, actual Nazis, edgy teens, and chapo crap house unread bros. This basically means any thread will be eventually derailed by any number of retarded posts. tl;dr we are for liberating humanity from all types of oppression, understanding what gives rise, justifies, and maintains oppression.
this is why we side step idpol. men should not grant or revoke women rights. the people should decide this. grow a neuron.

literally unintelligible.

cringe. we aren't holding anything up.

Sixth wave will have a point, everyone else before that is wrong

Yeah, and when the male half of "the people" realize they don't stand to gain anything from gender equality, women will be presently escorted back inside the home.

Nice spook; all the "shoulds" in the world mean nothing. What you fail to realize is women are not in a position to be deciding anything, their will doesn't translate to anything in material terms. If you can't make violence a consequence of your desire, you don't get a seat at the debate. Not idpol, just cold, animal reality.

Because no-one ever brings it up any genuine feminist concepts and instead posts feminist-liberal idpol most of the time. We're fine with marxist-socialist feminism, because it's objective.

Uneducated 15 years old make up a large portion of this board.

Thank you for this inspiring input, 24 year old balding white male redditor who needs more twitter followers.

man and woman? bah, there is only worker and capitalist.

These are great recommendations and and are on the money.

In any case, so-called "feminism" such as it is in the western world today is yet another face of identity politics and absolutely ruins legitimate movements against the beast system. Women have already been fully assimilated into western capitalist society with the same rights and privileges as men (at some times more). There is absolutely no need to pay any attention to it except outside of a western context in quite literally sexist patriarchal societies. Nevertheless, as identitarian nonsense it has already poisoned the waters and driven so many away from resistance, so I'm sure you can understand why many have feelings of resentment toward that particular word in our time.

tl;dr: manifests as toxic nonsense, not meaningful to the big picture

Have you seen the discord? It's full of teens. Also thanks for the caricature, I'm indeed 24 years old and white, so maybe you're on to something!

But biological reductionist ideology is bourgeois, user. Racial and sexual "science" paves the way to Enlightenment-style rationalization of the exploitation of the working-class.

Although I agree with your fundamental point, does this line of thinking account for the specific challenges working-class women face as "reproducers" for the bourgeoisie, even today? I believe that sexual abuse and rape in particular are issues that are globally prevalent and won't be effaced for a long time, let alone in a transitory stage from socialism -> communism, assuming such a revolution will occur (hopefully it does.)

Women are assimilated, yes. But they, like men but in a particular way, have to navigate structures of femininity that are tied to maintaining the ascendency of our Amazon overlords. Women in the West are being denied their personhood, really. Cf. Tiqqun. Undoubtedly this will go away with the establishment of a communist society, but paying specific attention to the ways in which these structures maintain/are maintained by capitalism is germane to understanding what a relevant and complicated issue this is in the west as well

Women demsuccs such as Amber A'Lee Frost and the Red Scare girls active within "socialist" "communities" are doing a huge disservice to the relevance of a feminist critique by trying to be hip with purveyors of the Chapo Trap House subreddit.

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leftypol discords have been a joke as long as the board has been around.
It's really easy to guess your demographic as you all always push for the same failed strategies. I put it down to you just being young enough that you haven't seen them fail in action (I just turned 28, there's a reason anyone 18 during the recession doesn't push for Occupy tier strategies). Stop being a dick to people that are trying to help you.

Stop hanging around on reddit and being a self-loathing idiot, I saw one guy on CTH via stupidpol say he wouldn't have any children because he was white - that sort of shit is bad for your mental health and it shows. Those retards are too online and will never create a mass movement. Look at how well we've done in the UK compared to the USA. Ditch these assholes.

Way to miss the point. I don't use Reddit, I don't need your advice and it's not even good to begin with. You guessed my age and ethnicity when they really weren't that out of the average. Keep your advice really, I'll stick with theory and yes, leftypol is full of edgy teenagers looking for boogeymen such as "idpol" because that's the only thing they can do.

meme purveyors*

In what sense? I can't imagine that it's institutional considering in most western countries birth control is pushed from a girl's teens from all angles. I know of course that this is not exactly the case in some states of the US which have so-called abstinence education, but in general western bourgeoisie have replaced women as "reproducers" with mass immigration from the developing world.

I believe that these are problems, and without a doubt very significant programs in certain parts of the world. However, I do not believe it is meaningful to spend time discussing it when we're literally heading for ecological disaster within decades (although, here I am nonetheless).

What are you talking about here? Expand upon this.

I predect niggers or helicopter rides in 3 posts.

If you don't use reddit then I outright pity you. You're such an empty vessel that you allow the Very Online twitter and reddit sphere to feed ideology to you through their brainwashed proxies. You're a pathetic guy in denial.

I don't believe that you don't use reddit, so you should fuck off back there, as there is no other way you could have heard of this place while being such a worm.

t. samefag retard who is mad as fuck

As opposed to you, an edgy twenty-something who can't argue for his position but prefers to find his boogeymen in "edgy teenagers" because that's the only thing he can do.

sorry I misread. I thought you were Zig Forumsyp calling us SJWs again.

BELIEVE WAHMEN is a wedge issue. Women are hired by liberal corporations to "work hard" at confirming lies rather than speaking truth to power.

Transexuals are also a way to create a controlled working slave class that are more concerned about bourgeois pursuits rather than confronting reality.

And if we're going to go to "working class" wahmen, as a group women either work less or do less valuable labour than men. They displace men in the workplace so people have to work double hard for the same pay. Female heavy employers such as healthcare and Education soak up government money with bloated budgets already at the expense of manly careers. They are an over represented pressure group, and aren't marrying until they're in their 30s. Family structures have already fallen apart.
So treating wahmen as a class is not only a pigshit retarded assault on labor, it's also filling the ranks of the modern west's HR department with entitled cat ladies with no purpose other than to get fat, angry, and childless as she devalues men on the cult of debt. They are corporate whores for the establishment and play the victim as they strike.

Apology not accepted, say something sexy to me and I will let you go.

anarchism is controlled opposition.

I have never seen a user here hostile toward Marxist Feminism. Intersectional Feminism on the other hand …

Cry me a fucking river Incel. Meme teens are the irrelevant kiss of death.

Such a sad state is Zig Forums in when expressing support for social equality with women and acknowledging that their may still be inequalities gets you torn apart and labeled as a “redditor” or an “idpoler”. It’s almost like we’re on Zig Forums.

A-user that's a bit dirtier than what I had in mind~

LEARN TO READ YOU HOPEFULLY DRUNK IDIOT

How long have you been on Zig Forums? Can't have been very long. This board used to be much more negative toward anything labeled feminism, if not toward women; many posters have had views that could be labeled "feminist," but they choose not to identify as such because "feminism" per se is idealist and liberal. If anything, this thread is evidence of the softening of our views toward feminism, at least as a label.

Fuck off you stupid chapo nigger

Not an argument.

Lol
You can’t liberate humanity by keeping 50% enslaved

Back to reddit you self loathing faggot.

This isn't /socialistalternativeunicampusaction/, you know

If you’re fine with being a reactionary “””””socialist”””” that’s your choice.

I mean, I can argue for my position all night long, it's 3 AM and I could probably resume tomorrow. Still, I think the witch hunt for idpol is pathetic and generally a waste of time.

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Hopelessly propagandized white trash snowflakes holding us back with the Feminists. Incels and sad Feminists cat wimminz should STFU and bang already.

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No surprises there

Just the other day I literally saw a vegan woman on tv at a march for it try to turn #metoo into an anti meat eating thing saying "animals get assaulted "

You stupid and hopeless fucking moron. Please kill yourself.

user, you totally failed to understand the post you were responding to.
You're spouting nonsequiter gibberish because you dont know what you're responding to.
Stop posting in english threads if you can't speak english.

Pic related

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Holy fuck, are you stupid. You didn't understand a single word I said.

Spank me, missus.

So many non-arguments. Who knew supporting women’s equality got Zig Forums so riled up.

In much the same way, I think your passive-aggressive "above it all" posturing is pathetic and a waste of everyone's time to read. Fuck off.

Right, lets move this discussion forward a few dozen paces

No Feminism by definition is a movement for women rights and social standing. Even the name heavily points this out. To divide for equality isn't possible because it by definition ignores where women are where they should supposed to be but men are too high up which means placing women too high up on a pedestal as well. It by definition overlooks where men are treated worse by law and society. Feminism even by it's name alone excludes men and in doing so also burdens women. Various versions of feminism completely contradict other forms as well.

I'm not wriled up. I was showing how much a clusterfuck metoo has become.

Alright, listen here you little snake in the grass. Almost all of us here support male-female equality, but like the snake you are, you keep slipping about to sow division like every other identitarian fucker in meatspace. People like you are a huge part of why Trump and Bolsonaro were elected and why resistance to the beast system leading us to the abyss is in such a pathetic state. Please rethink your positions

I agree. I've ditched them as their argument is as bad as feminists. Feminists got their gynospergostate yet they keep finding new sources of complaints.

You want equality in the workplace? Do equal work. You want equal advancement? Put in extra work like men have, and forget your fucking family like men do. You want a bloated gynocentric industry that's majority or fully funded by the government as a parasitical class, then complain about the male doctors and male professors producing a dominance hierarchy? Fuck you.

Men are the primary workers and soldiers of a society. Women have had equal rights for 100 years. The line of feminist argument is just a more socially acceptable version of white supremacists complaining they don't have everything they want.

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Stop it.
Everyone in this thread, as I said, has made it perfectly clear that by feminism, they're referring to modern social movements and memes that people call "feminism" or "feminist". And that they are NOT referring to these things purported goals, that is for women to have equal rights and social standing to men.
The meme of 'feminism' as something that exists apart from 'gender equality', but purports to has that as its goal, obviously exists and people obviously signal their allegiance to it and its associated causes.
Its useful and important to be able to talk about this meme. The social phenomenon of 'feminism', to refer to the ideas typically expressed and the things typically done in the name of that thing, so that we can point out how toxic and diversionary it has been to leftist causes.

If you or that other user are going to sperg out and demand we not call that feminism, but come up with some other term, I tell you to fuck off, noone cares. Words are tools to be used as needed by those using them with each other, not perfect objects with some particular true meaning set by some authority somewhere.

I should have said
"apart from 'working towards gender equality'" or "apart from 'wanting gender equality'" to be more clear there.

I even supported Trump because, sadly, the orange clown is the only one willing to put these faggots in their place. Bernie Sanders was a civil rights hero in the 1960s and he was bullied around by BLM, and he took it like a meek little old jew. Fuck these people.

Social justice warrior identity politics are killing us. They have to go.

Ignore the lobsterfag.

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Clean your fucking lobsters

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Maybe not Marxists, but AnFems were 100% not tolerated, mostly because they were always a liberal caricature.

I know what I'm talking about. Pick up a dictionary and compair the definition of feminism to the definition of gender egalitarianism. Also you clearly don't know about the Social Purity Movement. Early feminists were no different than the "meme" you describe.
historyoffeminism.com/summary-of-the-social-purity-movement/
makingqueerhistory.com/articles/2018/6/3/early-asexual-feminists-the-asexual-history-of-social-purity-activists-and-spinsters

literally fuck off

this is bad bait and you're probably like 16 but this is literally reproducing "equal rights" meritocratic rhetoric that is unhealthy for socialist thought

much like how "socialism" has been sheepdog'd by "democratic socialism" in America and elsewhere, feminism has been sheepdog'd by neoliberalism. in no way does this delegitimize the fact that autonomous women's groups are needed to navigate a nascent communist society

“We must by all means set up a powerful international women’s movement on a clear-cut theoretical basis,” he began after greeting me. “It is clear that without Marxist theory we cannot have proper practice. Here, too, we Communists need the greatest clarity of principle. We must draw a sharp line between us and all other parties. Our Second International Congress unfortunately did not come up to expectations in discussing the question of women. It posed the question but did not get around to taking a definite stand. A committee is still in charge of the matter. It is to draft a resolution, theses and directives but has made little progress so far. You must help it.”

-lenin. cf marxists.org/archive/zetkin/1925/lenin/zetkin2.htm

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Holy shit how fucking retarded can you be

Nigger, were fucking COMMUNISTS. Our ideology literally is to liberate the ENTIRETY of the working class by abolishing capitalism. How the hell would anyone of any group be "enslaved" still? The economic structures that allow oppression in the first place wouldn't fucking exist. This is why I'm always wary when someone calls themselves a feminist in addition to being a communist because being a communist means you are ALREADY fulfilling the goals of feminism by being against the system which allows real material and structural inequality for everyone and anyone to exist. Its an oxymoron to use the two together. What fucking more could you possibly want besides collective ownership of the MoP, the opportunity to work, and pay equal to that work? How could woman possibly be "enslaved" at that point? How could anyone?

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If you actually cared about equality you wouldn't be rage quitting just because someone doesn't adhere to the label "feminist" while supporting gender equality. You just like the perks of calling yourself a feminist.