China

It's not orientalist or chauvinist to look at the facts and analyze them for yourself

but he's /ourbuffoon/

This sadly seems to be the case. "Xi Jinping Thought" sounds more and more like whatever Xi feels like doing, though it has made improvements. How much stock can we put in the "anti-imperialism" they speak of?

This has been the case since Lenin's death tbh (with the possible exception of Mao's earlier writing). Socialist states would do whatever suited them and then dress it up in theoretical justifications after the fact.

While China may not necessarily be socialist supporting any of these Imperialist backed Sepratist Movements or CIA backed student movements is ridiculous as any sort of Balkanisation of China or Mass Liberalisation of its society would give the US at least 10more years of Unipolarity to enjoy

Show me proof that the CIA is backing Maoist students in China.

This is about on par with the idea of the New People's Army being a CIA plot to overthrow Rodrigo Duterte

anybody got One China, Many Paths?
also what do you all think of chuangcn.org?

Honestly I'm more scared of China than the US. The US is a joke. Only thing they're really good at is shooting themselves in the foot. China seems way more effective at suppressing people.

You have nothing to fear if you're not Chinese. The policy of the PRC is to seek mutual cooperation with respect for other nations' sovereignty.

Not to say Lenin was perfect. His NEP idea was a disaster and Stalin put an end to that nonsense, proving you don't need a bourgeois mixed economy to industrialise. Post-Mao China is the hold-my-beer version of NEP.

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They're capitalists. Of course I have something to fear.

In what way?

Inequality skyrocketed, one class of NEPmen and kulaks became wealthy and had their standard of living improve while everyone else's standard of living stagnated. Whatever productivity gains came about were meaningless when only a small group took all the benefits.

I fail to see what the alternatives are when you're in a mostly feudal society

marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1927/12/02.htm
marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1928/11/19.htm
marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1928/10/19.htm
marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1929/04/22.htm
marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1929/12/27.htm
marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1930/01/21.htm
marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1930/aug/27.htm
marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1933/01/07.htm
marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1933/01/11.htm
marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1933/02/19.htm
marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1934/01/26.htm
marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1935/02/15.htm
marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1938/04/19.htm
marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1938/04/19-2.htm

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nigga I ain't got time to read all that shit

Then read these three short paragraphs.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Economic_Policy#End_of_NEP

Dengism is capitalism but atleast they are trying to build up for socialism.That makes China the best choice if you have to choose a side between superpowers.

What is this even supposed to imply?
It seems like the old liberal history class explanation of “oh the Communists were not REALLY communists, they just wanted power!”, when all evidence proved them wrong.
Communism isn’t some dogma that gets corrupted, the changing of its theory as the world around it changes is built into it, and what makes it relevant and long lasting.
Not to say that these socialist states always made the right choices or had correct theory, Mao’s numerous fuck ups are proof enough, but what is even implied by saying he did ‘what suited him’. As a Communist reaction to the conditions that faced him? Well yes! That’s what a Communist should do.

Not even defending China, but the US is clearly by far the most dominant currently existing world power and has invaded foreign countries again and again because they didn't align with American interests. It's silly to be more scared of China than the US.

The USSR supported tons of anti-imperialist movements throughout the 20th century, seems pretty disingenuous to me to say these were all because of opportunism.

No, but we have so little to go on it would be presumptuous to even try. China, for reasons of both government control but also the very banal issue of having a totally distinct language, is too opaque for us to say much of value about it I think.

The alternative was collectivization and the five year plan. It worked.

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Didn't the NEP create the circumstances that made those possible in the first place?

The NEP did succeed in restoring the economy to pre-ww1 levels, but it's definitely debatable whether it was the best way of going about it. Collectivising the agriculture would probably have seen similar results, without all the drawbacks of the NEP. Trotsky was right on this one, tbh.

Collectivization was literally empirically found to be only 5% better in terms of GDP than continuing on with the NEP.

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You should be banned.

And banned again.
Fuck, just get banned from life. Kys.

Fucking western "leftists" man.

...

You can quite easily see the beginning of the title in the upper left and you can go download the book to see the raw stats I'm not going to spoonfeed you when I already posted the conclusion. I already stated that collectivization was 5% better in terms of gdp. The fact that you claim gdp doesn't matter but then turn around and use gdp to claim collectivization is the best (at the cost of millions of lives) is hilariously cynical.
Criticism discarded.

Unless your Manchu, Inner Mongolian, Tibetan, or Uyghur.

These people are all full Chinese Citizens and even have Autonomous Zones (Chinese ASSR's) set aside for them and were / are explicitly exempted from shit like the One Child Policy to PREVENT any sort of Han Supremacy
Literally the only people china are fighting here are CIA backed Literal Monarchists (Tibet) and Literal Islamic State Terrorists (Xinjiang)

Im not even that Pro-China but this is just dishonest

also
Undertook cultural genocide of their own volition over the 300 years they ruled China
you mean Mongolian, there's no difference between outer and inner Mongolians except the ones living in China can learn their traditional writing system instead of Cyrillic.
Left over cold war relic to undermine Maoist China once again relevant due to geopolitics
They are just as much immigrants into Xinjiang as Han Chinese are. They should be protesting Kyrgyzstan to get their native lands back.

...

same but

tibetans (monarchists) are closer to a theocrazy (saudi arabia) than to a decent liberal monarchy (sweden/uk)

Accurate post

Le 100 gorillion

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That’s not what I meant at all. I was suggesting that most socialist states had no problem taking actions in blatant violation of socialist principles and dressing it up in theory afterwards. This doesn’t mean that they were evil crypto porkies who just wanted power, just that they were playing the same realpolitik that the West was playing. It’s self evident in the fact that literally any action, no matter how blatantly revisionist, was always presented as the one true development of Marxism. It’s more an issue of supremacy of tactics over strategy than anything.

Wtf, I replied to the wrong post. Soz dude!

I meant to reply to this one

Than why does the CCP refuse to give Tibet an Autonomous zone and cultural autonomy. Thiss’ll drive down support for the monarchists. They don’t because the Hans want to colonize tibet because it’s where all the precious rare earth metals are.

No excuse to bug every phone a Uyghur has. If China was socialist these groups would not desire independence.

Twenty social credit was deposited into your account.

The Chinese campaign is oppressive and probably repeating American mistakes, but the part about terrorists is true though. Ironically the Soviet Union might have been responsible for some that.

I don't believe China is a socialist country (well maybe ideologically but definitely not economically) and this is only a tangentially related point but I really hate this sort of "if its true socialism how come there are conflicts between different segments of the population or any other kinds of problems???" line of reasoning. A lot of socialists, especially those who consider most if not all actually existing socialist states to have been monstrous bastardizations of "true" socialism, are much more optimistic about what sorts of problems socialism will put an end to than I am.

We must support them somehow

Unruhe video?

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He’d probably say that African mining interests make China First World so there’s no chance of revolution there.

He'd get to work with actual not larp Maoists though.

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Zak Cope's Divided World Divided Class is the main book. People reference Samir Amin a lot too, but he's more supportive of China than Maoists generally.

China is communist in name only. It is pure unchecked capitalism: no unions, very little social benefits, etc. That’s part of the reason why they are beating the west in trade. That and dollar manipulation and lower standard of living make it nigh impossible to produce at a cheaper price point than them.
The Trump tariffs are the right approach.
#maga!!!

he can go eat shit and die for all i care

*whose

stop makling strawmans

recent Chinese articles
monthlyreview.org/2018/11/01/renminbi-a-century-of-change/
monthlyreview.org/2018/10/01/on-the-nature-of-the-chinese-economic-system/

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Police state with "i'm not a dissident" good boy points.
Unironically the worst parts of Capitalism and Communism combined, functionally a xenophobic dictatorship.

They're good, folx.

End this meme, tbh

it seems china still keeps tabs on western communist parties
globaltimes.cn/content/1128129.shtml

SOCIALISM BY 2050
FUCK YOU AMERIKKKA

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Can you say more?
What do they think of Xi's imperialism (?) with Chinese characteristics.

Serpentza just left China because of evil Xi Jinping.

youtube.com/watch?v=9J35AxY1pLE

sad!

Filipino Communist Party's piece to go with Xi's visit with Dutere
philippinerevolution.info/2018/11/20/resist-china-efforts-to-impose-imperialist-power-on-the-philippines/

He and his buttbuddy are leaving China? About time.

China is the best hope for developing the means of production to a level where tech can deliver fully automated luxury communism.

Call it state capitalism. Call it whatever you want, but it isn't entirely market dependent: they have five year plans, and state owned enterprises or enterprises with plurality state control make up the majority of the economy.

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All religious people, be they Muslim Uyghurs, Falun Gong cultists, Christian fundies, Tibetan Buddhists, Orthodox Jews, whatever, should be sent to re-education camps. Religion is a mental illness.

The CPC built the largest secular state ever. They deserve some credit, even if they haven't completely eliminated superstition from their nation.

It’s an Asian Tiger economy but with a SOEs instead of big corporations.

“For Germany, the criticism of religion has been essentially completed, and the criticism of religion is the prerequisite of all criticism.
The profane existence of error is compromised as soon as its heavenly oratio pro aris et focis [“speech for the altars and hearths,” i.e., for God and country] has been refuted. Man, who has found only the reflection of himself in the fantastic reality of heaven, where he sought a superman, will no longer feel disposed to find the mere appearance of himself, the non-man [Unmensch], where he seeks and must seek his true reality.
The foundation of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man – state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d’honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion.
Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.
The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.
Criticism has plucked the imaginary flowers on the chain not in order that man shall continue to bear that chain without fantasy or consolation, but so that he shall throw off the chain and pluck the living flower. The criticism of religion disillusions man, so that he will think, act, and fashion his reality like a man who has discarded his illusions and regained his senses, so that he will move around himself as his own true Sun. Religion is only the illusory Sun which revolves around man as long as he does not revolve around himself.
It is, therefore, the task of history, once the other-world of truth has vanished, to establish the truth of this world. It is the immediate task of philosophy, which is in the service of history, to unmask self-estrangement in its unholy forms once the holy form of human self-estrangement has been unmasked. Thus, the criticism of Heaven turns into the criticism of Earth, the criticism of religion into the criticism of law, and the criticism of theology into the criticism of politics.”
t. Marx

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Religion is like that corn starch goo from middle school science class. The harder you hit it, the more rigid it gets. You have to be subtle and slowly ease it out of society.

No, but for the workers to seize the means of production, we need enough means of production to implement full automation in the first place. Otherwise we will just be collectivizing our own poverty.

1917 and even 1936 were premature. What were the workers expected to take over? In the former, a mostly agrarian illiterate society. In the former a barely industrialized collection of sweatshops. Participatory democratic economic planning wasn't even possible before the Internet and decision optimization software.

*later a barely industrialized…

The thing is that for socialists all of these things are means to an end, not an end in themselves (insert Engels quote about concentration of capital in the hands of the state => the national capitalist or whatever he wrote). China also has enormous wealth inequality, billionaires in charge of politics, workers who are exploited by foreign corporations and work for low wages under terrible work conditions. Everything you listed; developing productive forces, five year plans, state ownership, etc. could be said about early South Korea as well, but nobody would claim there was anything "socialist" about South Korea. None of the pro-China posters here have convinced me that China is really any different from South Korea in 70's and 80's or some other reactionary dictatorship with a decent amount of state ownership.

Full automation is not a prerequisite for socialism or socialist oriented politics.

Meanwhile
???????????

this, the chinese gov is just going to create more jihadis with the camps
the deprogramming at schools is very welcome however

any leftist who supports China is a dumbfuck

>>>Zig Forums

Which ethnic groups did he mention?

This

Uyghurs and Tibetans

How did he imply that all uyghurs and tibetans are religious?

freebeacon.com/national-security/chinese-billionaire-create-100-million-fund-aid-victims-communist-purge/

Exiled Chinese businessman Guo Wengui announced this week he is creating a $100 million fund to aid the victims of Chinese communist repression under current leader Xi Jinping.

Guo announced the creation of the fund, which will also be used to finance investigations into Chinese government financial activities and those of its supporters in the West, at press conference in New York City on Tuesday.

The former Chinese insider also revealed in a presentation for reporters details on the disappearance, imprisonment, or death of 56 prominent Chinese nationals, including the mysterious death in July of Wang Jian, one of China's wealthiest business leaders.

"A lot of people lost their freedom, a lot of people disappeared," Guo said through an interpreter. "What we see here is the tip of the iceberg."

And well deserved.

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Who would be victorious in a struggle session, Avakian or Unruhe?

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Why is it in German and Japanese…

SOURCE NOW

I HAVE SO MANY FUCKING QUESTIONS

revolutionaryfrontlines.wordpress.com/2010/03/26/pao-yu-ching-on-30-years-of-capitalism-in-china/

Rebuttal from any of the Dengists here?

the man with the glasses is Otto Braun a german communist who joined the CPC and fought in the civil war.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Braun_(communist)

do this with yourself faggot, with proof and evidence.
prove China isn't an Orwellian shithole