New general for discussing climate change and the way to address it. I have quite a few questions to start off discussion:
Climate Change
Carson Robinson
Other urls found in this thread:
epa.gov
youtu.be
youtube.com
twitter.com
Gavin Evans
bump
Josiah Miller
what a hilariously idiotic take
Christopher Jones
Whats the context of this comic?
Ayden Jones
We are heading for a new ice age maybe, its a plot to kill off the lower classes by the elites to ensure everyone is caught unawares by the great frost.
Ryder Howard
yes, and DPRK is as well
Chase Wilson
stop spreading this myth. they are responsible for 71% *industrial* emissions, not *total* emissions. there is a big difference.
Blake Scott
So what's their total percentage then? Also are things like commuting included in their total because porky recquires workers to be at work even when they could telecommute.
Ian Harris
This line of reasoning is just a way to move responsibility away from the big actors in the economy - corporations, states, etc. - and on to the individual. It depoliticises the issue of climate change and turns it into a matter of individual consumer choice, brushing away any systemic critiques and arguments for radical social change in favour of "eat less meat" and "turn your lights off at night".
The way to counter this is to highlight the insidiousness of this sort of argument and to point out that this sort of strategy is completely insufficient for the problems at hand. The choice of the individual consumer is inconsequential compared to the greater mass of people.
Brody Foster
Link to the chart, for those curious. It also provides some explanation for the sectors. For industry, they only count emissions generated on site, so any fossil fuels burnt or any by-products from the industrial processes are counted, but not electricity use or transportation. With that in mind, "industry" emissions are actually way higher than the chart shows.
Liam Hughes
Juan Lewis
I do think we should cut down on red meet consumption because agriculture is a main cause of deforestation
Nathaniel Johnson
Like fucking clockwork
Blake Hall
Yes there’ll be some sacrifices, but passenger planes won’t be one of those. We can run those on Radioisotope-Therman Generators
No shit Nuclear will be needed.
In order to reduce meat consumption first you have to neck the fast food industry and provide cheep and nutritional low-meat food to large numbers of people.
Owen Walker
Industrial society, at least at it's current scale, though perhaps in its entirety, isn't going to exist in 100 years. Billions will die unnaturally in this time as a consequence.
This is beginning in your lifetime, presuming you're under 30 or so.
The question needs to be posed. Will you be digging the mass graves of the future, or filling them?
Cameron White
most working class people think carbon emissions are unnecessary already. all they need now is power.
Hunter Barnes
As far as I can tell after an extensive search it is a standalone comic frame without context.
Brody Butler
Fuck off Reactionary. Climate Change won’t destroy Industrial Society, it’ll just purge it of humanity.
Bentley Roberts
AI will never be as intelligent as humans.
Joseph Gray
...
Jonathan Collins
these both look like accelerationist shitholes
Gavin Hernandez
It doesn’t need to be if genetics technology is sufficiently advanced enough to allow sentient life to thrive in environments that are unihabital to modern day humans. (It already is)
Logan Sanchez
Climate change is fucking scary. The earth will literally dry up unless we do something immediately, which is impossible. Fuck.
Brandon Peterson
show me an example of this then
it's only impossible because of complacency
Matthew Cooper
pretty much
shits gonna get real bad real fast at the end of the 2020s and accelerate further in the 2030-50s
of course if the clathrate gun hypothesis is right, and there have been major methane releases from carbon sinks recorded, it'll happen even faster
Kevin Perry
Indeed. Most people I talk to seem to understand that climate change is real and something to be worried about, but none of them have ever seen climate data projections that include feedback loops. Most people seem to assume that there's still a future for humanity (or more accurately, global civilization) 'if we act right now'.
That game's already over. Not that people would change their consumption anyway - that's not the way 'life' works (that is to say, all organized biological systems, without apparent exception, always maximize energy/resource use) Our collective bus went over the cliff a long time ago. We're just waiting to hit the ground at this point.
That isn't to say disengage from politics because all hope is lost - far from it, you'll be alive until you die, and that life can be more or less comfortable or stressful based on the conditions of your environment (political, ecological, economical, etc.). It's to say people need to have an accurate view of the future and what conditions will be like and what resources will be salvageable to have a realistic view of the future they will inhabit and shape.
Jeremiah Reed
not really. we're not gonna start seeing the affects of declining crop yields until the 2050s. that's also when the TRPF reaches 0% as well.
I wish it more gradual, but I think shit's going to go down unbearably fast between the 50s and 60s.
Nathaniel Wilson
I suppose it depends on who you mean by 'we'. We might say that this already started last decade in Syria
Aaron Stewart
Oops, posted too soon.
But yeah, a prolonged drought, reduced crop yields, rural-to-city migration, that all happened as a precursor to the Syrian civil war.
I'd be interested in seeing where the recent conflict between Pakistan and India ends up at - they're already feuding about India blocking/damming some rivers that flow into Pakistan while they're experiencing drought conditions, and I believe they're both nuclear nations. That could cause its own little crisis in the region.
Throw a global economic crash on top of that, and shrinking oil supplies, and spiking populations in the places that will be worst and most immediately effected by climate change? That could all make the immigrant crisis much worse. That could open up a foothold for western fascists to claim power in their nations. The situation of global trade could be radically altered by any one of these things, but a mixture of all of them is likely to occur, compounding all of the preexisting problems.
I don't think you're necessarily wrong about crop yields seeing the general decrease in productivity in the 50s and onward, this too is dependent on soil erosion and the ability to mine and import fertilizers, which are generally not localized to agricultural areas, but there's a lot more to industrial civilization collapsing than just crop yields, though don't get me wrong, crops are critically important, to be sure - indeed they're probably the last linchpin of everything coming undone in short order, but there will be chaos before the crops go.
Ryan Brown
The temperature hasn’t rises that much. Your graphs saying we’ll all die in thirty years are supper unrealistic. Because their based on models that have failed to predict what would happen now three decades ago.
Nolan Jones
Not saying climate change isn’t a big issue. It is, and it’s effect will make all of humanity miserable. However it won’t stop or slow down the march of Industrial civilization. And it won’t kill billions. It’ll force Industrial Civilization to be more Technocratic and Efficient, thus making it stronger and advancing the dialectic.
Jonathan Edwards
The average person not being able or willing to read charts at all may indeed be contributing to the failing of industrial civ.
Liam Rodriguez
There isn’t enough crude in the ground for us to get to 6.2C by 2100. And crude production will soon decline. Also that figure doesn’t take into account CO2 absorption from the ocean and forests.
The charts shown on pic one in were illegible. Only the text above and below them could be read.
David Price
How do conservatives still pretend climate change doesn't real? Don't Christians have some divine responsibility or something to protect the Earth?
Ethan James
Conservatives are only as Christian as southern corporations pay them to be.
Ryder White
youtu.be
Highly recommend everyone watch this video before saying capitalism and solutions to climate change are incompatible. Communism is amazing for many things but solving climate change isn't something it can brag about accomplishing that capitalism can't. Saying so only turns the right further against scientific understanding and forces them to do more harm rather than working on a solution.
Zachary Green
American chauvinism trumps Christ in the minds of most christian americans. I remember when my parish priest got the church choir to sing "God Bless America" at the end of mass. It was so fucking disgusting. Never went back to that church again. America is beyond salvation. The rest of the world needs to realize this and start planning to neutralize them.
Jack Garcia
I'm probably the most left wing American in my 100 mile radius, but what the fuck is wrong with singing "God Bless America" exactly?
Christian Ross
it's not possible in America. the government is so owned by corporations any measure taken against Oil doesn't even stand a chance.
there is no future where America isn't the last contributor to Climate Change.
Josiah Rodriguez
Nothing Inherently
Ignore him hes a resident LARPing Utopian fool
Hunter Gomez
Nationalism is anti-christian and anti-leftist. Also praising America in church is fucking disgusting in general as America is quite possibly one of the most unironically evil governments ever to exist. The only "blessing" America has ever needed is total and complete annihilation.
Isaac Hill
if you were an actual leftist you'd know it's possible to reconcile the liberalism America was founded on with your hatred of Washington D.C.
Chase Ramirez
Because, god damn America.
Angel Hughes
Imagine being on THIS many levels of Moralism
Hope you realise that your take on Americans is literally what Hitler was saying about jews
Jonathan Wilson
Climate change and environmentalism is all a fascist plot motivated by the landed interest to restore feudal order to the world, you should look up William Kay. youtube.com
Sebastian Lewis
Also how the fuck is "God bless America" even Nationalistic by most standards?
It's literally just saying "God bless the place I live" it's not putting anyone else down or encouraging Imperialism or Colonial wars
Jose Peterson
William Kay is an ex-Marxist who has the website ecofascism.com dedicated to exposing the reactionary environmentalist plot. He also has many articles defending Marxism and leftism against the right.
Brayden Ramirez
It's a crime that you can't filter a flag on this site
Jaxson Ortiz
America has always been imperialist and has always promoted colonialism. Those concepts are part of every governmental institution here and they cannot be removed. Also now that I think about it the song may have actually been the national anthem. It was about 10 years ago though. Either way the effect was the same.
Caleb Diaz
They have a responsibility to dominate nature and the right to use it to whatever end they need so they traditionally oppose any ecological protection measure. According to them, they are divine beings which aren't naturally part of the earth (which God is going to soon destroy anyway) so there's no reason for them to care about the consequences.
Brayden Nelson
Yeah but the song isnt talking about that
This sort of dumb shit like complaining about fucking hymn's in churches play's fucking perfectly into this stupid strawman of the left Zig Forums has built
Adam Evans
The American Government will deal with climate change once Porky realizes that it threatens all it’s profits.
Wth I’m an ultranationalist now
Christaniaity is anti-leftist
99.9% of the time the Church sides with Porky. Also socialist is a Scientific Ideology born from the enlightenment which makes it incompatible with religion, spiritualism ,and the occult. There’s a reason virtually all socialist states implement state atheism.
What a world we live in. I’m pretty anti-natioanlist, but if fascists were in favor of Cockshotian economic planing and took over the government and implemented it, I’d give up politics and say “good enough.”
Michael Foster
Understanding how feedback loops work is important to understanding how fucked the situation is. Climate change is a lot more than just co2 emissions - they were the catalyst for many of the changes due to initial warming, but they could be entirely eliminated at this point and the earth would continue warming at an accelerating rate. This is what people mean by the phrase "run away climate change". If you do enough damage to melt even just a sufficient amount of the the arctic the loss of albedo will create a feedback loop that will essentially do the rest of the warming for you. I'm simplifying a bit but maybe you see what I'm getting at - co2 from fossil fuels isn't the be-all-end-all of climate change.
Blake Reyes
Jeremiah Wright had the right idea. God DAMN America!
Grayson Bell
if Porky cared at all about profits in the long term we wouldn't be living under neoliberalism.
that's one of the problems with market liberalism; it makes people fuckin dumb and makes it so they can't think long term.
Evan Baker
This.
It is possible to keep Capitalism alive, have high rates of profit, and everyone is happy. But that would ummmmmmmm require looking at it via a Marxist angle.
Gabriel Cox
Yes their are feedback loops, but theirs also logarithmic functions such as Ocean Carbon Absorption. The Earth has warmed in similar ways to what we’re experiencing now (albeit slower) and none of these feedback loops have been triggered.
Elijah Reed
Viewing Climate Change as inevitable stops people from taking action to end it.
James Cooper
Can you guys imagine being such a dumbfuck socdem? I'd shoot myself.
Nathan Sanchez
Oil and Gas will soon threaten Porky’s Profits because soon their will be more capital invested in non fossil fuel energy than in fossil fuels.
Lucas King
Not at all
Fossil fuel demand is growing way faster than "green" energy
Thomas Lee
Proof?
Gabriel Foster
just look at the middle east
Matthew Moore
The Middle East is oil rich, no shit their going to use fossil fuels. However they make up an insignificant portion of Energy consumption. In Europe and China there’s massive growth in renewables. And China is building huge Nuclear Plants. Even the coal plants in China are getting carbon capture.
Cooper Sullivan
Europe and China are only making these efforts because they're being insisted on by the government. If it were up to the corporations things would operate just like America.
William Murphy
China and Europe have government labor controls by Porky. Their both bourgeois republics.
Ryder Morgan
*have their governments controlled by
Nathan Green
EU countries like Germany tend to be a lot more democratic than America, so they're not an entirely bourgeois republic.
China may be highly corporate but they're still centrally planned. There's no competition between dirty and clean energy because they're one and the same corporation.
Gabriel Taylor
Still the profitability of fossil fuels are declining because eassy to extract reserves are becoming unavailable. New reserves like Shale are barely profitable.
Landon Campbell
I love you :3
Henry Cook
bump
Hudson Hernandez
Bumping this