Why are right wingers so obsessed with "Communist deaths"...

You literally see the name of the writers first on that pic you nerd.

cercec.fr/materiaux/doc_membres/Gabor RITTERSPORN/Victims of the Gulag.pdf

Here if you want to read the whole thing.

Two reasons depending on who you consider right.
For the Nazi's or fascists, because whenever someone brings up the Holocaust they bring up the total number of deaths in communist nations. To be fair this is a good counter point since yes if you add up the total number of deaths caused by all ML nations since the establishment of the USSR all the way to the modern day along with a few anarchists or other leftist groups in there, they did indeed kill more than the estimated 20 million high the Nazi's did. Although the Nazi regime was short as opposed to all communist nations 1917 to the present day, so calculating how many people the Nazi's would hypothetically kill as opposed to the amount of people communists would have to hypothetically kill each group in order to establish their perfect world by rate, time, and total would be going into a whole different argument.
The best way to counter this argument is to actually back down, and instead bring up the multiple other things Hitler fucked up on, killing x member, allowing bankers to escape Germany in time, etc etc etc.
Alternatively try getting them to deny the Holocaust and you'll win instantly since it's proven the Holocaust happened, and anyone watching your argument will just trust you more than them.
For capitalists, liberals, and everyone else, it's to show just how cruel the communists are, like the teacher told them in school every single year since 4th grade and "How free reee" capitalism is.
There isn't really a counter to this because if you told them capitalism since the industrial revolution where most people would agree it fully started had killed so many people it would be ludicrous to try calculating every single victim and would take a lifetime doing so they'll deflect and go into denial like
says.

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Whoops sage was on from before.

Or don't be a pussy and say that even if those numbers weren't exaggerated, they'd still be too low.

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For?
I swear to God my sage keeps turning on automatically, codemonkey fix this shit.

for saving the union. the economic reforms of the post-stalin era is what lead to the dismantling of socialism, but maybe it could have been avoided if the higher echelons of the CPSU had been purged of revisionists such as khrushchev.

at first glance it sounds like empirical proof that gommunism is shit

I don't get it but I'm too sleepy to try so sure.

cuz i dont wanna get killed by communists

dont stand in our fuckin way then

Soviet socialism didn't cease to exist the day that papa joe died you know that right?
Kruschevs Soviet Union functioned economically much to the same degree that it did during Stalins Era

so? khrushchevs reforms laid the groundwork for the end of socialism. i mean khrushchev even abolished the proletarian dictatorship with the "all peoples government". the idea was that class struggle had come to an end, but that was not true as we all came to see.

What do you think he should have done, just murder the entire CPSU? Stalin largely paved the way for the rise of Khrushchev. Khrushchev’s major political opponent after the death of Stalin was a fucking serial rapist.

no, i think the structure of the CPSU should have been re-evaluated to avoid such a problem in the first place, but of course revisionists should be purged from party leadership. do you think we should have social democrats in the upper echelons of a future communist party, for example? what about a more polarizing figure, say gorbachev or yeltsin? would you suggest we let those kinds of people into the highest echelons of a socialist state?

No capitalists allowed

they watched a jordan peterson video so they think their experts

...

It shouldn’t matter who the upper echelons of the party are after the revolution. Laws should be put in place preventing the return of capitalism and the reigns of power handed over to the people. If the Soviet workers had supreme power, the Soviet Union wouldn’t have dissolved in the first place.

this has given me some new perspective. what you are saying essentially is that the revisionist tendency grew out of the conditions that were present in all socialist countries? is that right? and that shooting them is a band-aid solution to a bigger issue?

Precisely. Now, there are different ways you can begin to try to explain why socialist states often tend towards market reforms. An obvious one is that the "Stalinist" economic model had a number of issues with inefficiency, waste, bureaucracy, etc. (Michael Parenti talks about these problems in some detail) and market reforms could be seen as a potential solution to some of these problems.

Another one is the Maoist explanation for revisionism. Basically they believe that the party has the potential to develop into a new sort of bourgeoisie if they become alienated from the masses, and as such, have an objective interest in increasing social stratification and eventually the restoration of class society.

Paul Cockshott also talks a bit about how the domination of professionals (engineers, doctors, etc.) in the party catalyzed the capitalist restoration in the Soviet Union, but I don't remember the details of the argument.

Anyway, there are different ways to explain the historical development and collapse of actually existing socialism, but simply saying "everything went to shit because Stalin didn't send enough people to gulag" is not adequate.

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I DEFEND POCKS ON THE INTERNET
I DEFEND POCKS ON THE INTERNET
I DEFEND POCKS ON THE INTERNET

MAYBE IF I DEFEND ENOUGH POCKS ON THE INTERNET POCKS IRL WON'T ROB ME RAPE ME AND LEAVE ME FOR DEAD IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET

WHY CAN'T THE POCKS SEE THAT I AM A WHITE ALLY

You are not white though

that wasn't real communism

Where does this meme even come from? Rightists regurgitate it a million times among themselves and stroke eachother off for creating another super witty and clever strawman of communists.
And the irony is lost on them whenever they claim capitalism is actually crony capitalism, socialism, corporatism etc.

Anarchists, left-communists, trotskyists and democratic socialists all have their own spin on the "not real socialism" argument. Obviously not all non-ML's use it but it definitely used to be pretty common, before it became a meme.

Depends
If the attacker(the non-leftism) brings up death tolls on an a arguement about marxism\socialism, he is pretty much moving the goalpost and muh holomodor is a knee-jerk reaction against any leftist critic of the system
If he is also posting it without proofs he is strwmanning, bring up any evidence and you have automaticly win by virtue of not being lazy/sheeple
About the situation on the op you can do many thing

This poster makes some good points

Communisti re-istintution ircc
Not too common, but some people do use it
Tbh if you dont think USSR was good there is no reason to defend it
If you are an anarchist and they expect you to defend USSR ,they should stop talking about politics, they dont know anything
You could use a trot arguement(its worth noting that most trots defend USSR even under Stalin), Russia was never free and sorrounded by enemies
Famines happen everyday and USSR stoped them while they bringed back honour and growth in doomed states
In fact its easyer to defend USSR under Stalin or China, than for exmple oppresion in Poland or invasions in Chehosalovakia
And no one thinks that USSR was perfect and we dont want to just recreate it

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Proper Trots think the USSR was a “deformed workers’ state”, which they claim was socialist, but overly powerful bureaucracy and weak democratic institutions.

Yeah, "it was state capitalism" is also a common statement on the internet

chili sauce?

This. Mao was right when he said that the best check on revisionism and bureaucracy was the masses themselves. The only way to combat revisionism effectively is to create a genuine worker’s democracy, which the USSR and other ML states definitely were not.

Can't we just be honest and say jews?

In what way?
Despite Kruschevs redefinition of who the soviet goverment represented (Shifting from workers to "All soviet peoples") this didn't fundamentally change the USSR's political system
I don't think that Nikita believed that at all he didn't claim that communism had been established and clearly stated that the Soviet Union and its sphere would need to be become global hegemon for that to happen

You realise that "Muh Cultural Revolution" was effectivly just an excuse by Mao to remove his political opponents and those opposed to him in the CCP from office by force right?
You realise this is a clear breach of the Leninist Dictatorship of the Proletariate right?

Can't you be honest and say you're a shill for capitalism?

He certainly did his best to ensure that end to make it that way but the Cultural Revolution itself was a genuine popular movement by workers and students concerned that the party leaders were becoming counterrevolutionary.

Jealousy from their inability to achieve our high score without crude racism and the most idealist and identifying brainlet ideologies.

I eat McDonald's almost every day, I weigh 150lbs and have a low BMI. Consider suicide (or a better argument against capitalism than the fact it has essentially solved domestic food insecurity-and that of places like China and Mexico).

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3250069/

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They are hypocrites. People die in revolutions. Even in right wing revolutions. That's kinda the whole point of revolting. To kill those that stand in the way of the greater good.

Regardless of what the cultural revolution was, Mao was right to say that the way to combat revisionism was from below, not above. Attempting to do so only erodes proletarian democracy as the party swings blindly at anything that moves in a vain attempt to root out revisionism. All it does is create a repressive apparatus that eventually falls into the hands of those they were trying to purge in the first place. This has happened time and time again.

Forty million people lack it in the US while the Soviets ultimately put an end to the constant famines that had plagued Russia for ages.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_in_the_United_States

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How was it proven that the Holocaust happened?

Corpse counts, nazi records, Nuremburg Trials, memoirs etc.

imgur.com/a/725A7

it's concern trolling to weakly appeal to liberals. you know these people orgasm to shit like the holocaust and even the average normie neocon wouldn't mind the eastern half of the earth being vaporized

Basically the Right has gotten extremely weak in their ability to critisize socialism as everything capitalistic around them continues to erode and crumble
Just compare the Gotcha tier arguements used by modern Right wing thinkers to even someone like Nixon who used fucking LeftCom logic to oppose the Soviet Union by literally saying "It's just state-Capitalist Dictatorship not socialism"

A common fallacy when analyzing right wing politics is assuming, regardless of good or bad faith, that they are supposed to make sense, which is a standard that is not fair to hold them to. They are supposed to be emotionally appealing.

The fact that they won't ever shut up about muh commie death numbers is the entire purpose of them.

This. Right wing politics is about justifying currently existing power structures (or really whatever power structure is the most advantageous for the bourg) at all costs. They will sacrifice reason to do this, but they will also use it as well. It's schizophrenic but effective. Reminds me of demons.

"Stalin killed over 10 million Ukrainians 85 years ago"

Why do people believe this shit? No one realizes how much the west benefited from former Wehrmacht & SS officers. Before the war, they idolized Hitler.

It's almost as if… due to their mutual hatred of communism… the west spread lies ever since?

They fail to realize how many people capitalism has bankrupted and, ultimately, killed in times of peace.

IT IS MY CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO LET POOR PEOPLE DIE! STAY WAY FROM MY MONEY YOU SOCIALIST JEW11!

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it fucking worked though. they thought every commie country was a Maoist shithole. even Albania and Cuba did well! Compare that shit to Haiti

The American right wing has been pushing this meme for decades (generally they try to equivocate the crimes of Hitler with the alleged "crimes" of Staln/Lenin/etc instead of outright claiming that the socialists were worse.) Pic related.

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isnt it funny that the russians found all the really bad camps but the other allies found the work camps. its almost like the country where most of the officials were jews inflated the numbers and have little or no documentation backing their numbers up to the point where historians ask rabbis to stop repeating "muh six million" even to the point were some rabbis say not even one million died at the hands of the nazis, but thats just pinwheel propaganda

Why do you just make things up?

haaretz.com/jewish/nazis-killed-fewer-than-1-million-jews-ny-rabbi-says-1.5384577

I want to see documentation on the nazi german death camps like but I cant because there isnt

>what he means is that only one million true Jews died, never actually disputes 6 million figure

Here you go you disingenuous faggot

imgur.com/a/725A7

Zig Forums's entire worldview is based on the sentiment of retards

i really just don't understand the holocaust denial. like isn't the holocaust happening entirely the reason you guys worship and identify with nazis to begin with?

Zig Forums

Are you trying to claim that the USSR lied about the death camps or that the US lied about the work camps? Not really sure where this conspiracy theory is going.

Those people are just cowards.

The gulags were prison work camps and a lot of people died in them, and that's a good thing. Every single one of them deserved it.

There is literally nothing wrong with harming enemies of socialism. The holocaust happened and is actually massively downplayed by the west, which wants you to believe that it only involved jews and homosexuals when in reality its primary target was socialists and enemies of capital. 12 million people died so Germans could pretend to have a working example of capitalism and attempt to slaughter every single eastern european. It was a vile government and I'm glad they were all killed. I only wish more had been killed. Every German city should have been turned into a pile of ash like Dresden.

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just because we don't believe stalin sucked all of the rain out of the sky to stop crops from growing doesn't mean that we think gulags were nice or that the ussr didn't kill anyone. not everyone plays this two-faced simpering game like you do, Zig Forums.

Inferiority complex. They know they cannot compete.

How many times are we going to play this game Zig Forums?

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lmao

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Low

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only these pro-american pro-israel fascists are celebrating that massacre against civilians
every communist party denounces these paid clowns

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collective guilt was also promoted by americans
the soviets had a clear class perspective on the matter
nobody can call themselves a communist and be on their side
marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1942/02/23.htm

Good thing I wasn't voicing any support for them then.

go fuck yourself, antigerman fascist little fuck

literally promoting nazi propaganda by pretending commies to be the strawman they create
go fucking off yourself, fucking antigerman faggot

i don't think you've ever had a single argument where you don't resort to sperging out and petty namecalling.

Prussia deserved to be annihilated though

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so promoting fascist propaganda by playing the strawman is fine and dandy, but calling him out for being a fascist is the issue now?
your position as a vol should be put into question, you don't seem qualified failing to even notice obvious antigerman propaganda that belongs on imperialist war crime apologetic leftpol

prussia can be annihilated all day long, communists do not promote terror against workers and lumping them together under "nationality" like fucking nazis and antigermans do, you dimwitted little shit

Not everyone is German dude. Also if it helps you feel better I generally believe the same thing about America as well. Reaction must be made to have a cost.

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not every german was a nazi, not every german is a "german"
give me one soviet source celebrating the massacre of german civilians like you just fucking did
read the fucking link i posted

who is the real fascist, the one making bomber harris jokes or the one crying about "anti-germans" which is totally different from Zig Forumsfags crying about "anti-whItes".
it's not my responsibility to ban people because you're mad that they are taking the piss at your race.

seriously? you're gonna equate antigermans, that are a pro-imperialist group in germany that you apparently have no knowledge of, with "muh deeply triggering and problematics"?
you do realize they promote the apartheid regime in israel and excuse every single bombing and raid against them as well as building settlements?
he's taking a piss on leftism pretending that these fuckers and their propaganda is "leftist"
the issue is that you're having a say on an issue you clearly have not even basic knowledge of

please go explain pic in
you don't know that group, do you?

but i haven't? i said you never seem to be able to have an argument without losing your shit and you had to drag me into it because i'm not banning people you don't like.

ok, fuck it
hurr hurr kill all germans, bombing civilians is cool guys :DDD
as stalin said "bomb every german dead" it's the true communist way X-D

whatever, have fun being utter morons

i only came in this thread after you posted my report
and i only reported him for promoting anti-german propaganda
which apparently is now completely fine
let's kill all germans because every german is a nazi
true communist arguments here :DDD nothing worth insulting for, absolutely right!

my bad!

okay so let me get this straight
when christcom user shit talks americans and other countries it's fine, but the moment he dares mock germans you get all offended and want me to ban him? this is literally just you being offended since you're a german, you wouldn't pull this shit when someone says we should nuke america because "not all americans are bad" and neither do americans because literally everyone else besides you doesn't take imageboard shit talking personally. if you can't handle getting your feelings hurt, go to reddit.

Rightwinger here… I guess.
The reason we bring these is obviously for pathos points.
And although the 100 millions figure is just a meme, you can't deny things like the Holodomor, the whole Cambodia story or the Great Chinese famine happened.
Personnally I think pinning the famines on Communism is debatable because one could argue it was caused more by soviet imperialism or leaders being retarded. So to me, the deathtoll is not that important compared to the viciousness you could see from the dehumanizing of the opponent witnessed in various communism attempts.
Not saying that it's a Communist thing only BTW. I'd agree with anyone bringing the fact that many workers were dehumanized in pre-socialist era (and still are).

We're all Germanophiles

fuck you, i'm done with you, you just chose to give those guys a pass
you're either a former Zig Forumsack who thinks this is an unironic "kill whitey" board or over from Zig Forums