I'm sure this sort of topic has been brought up on this board in the past but I have some questions for the leftists who browse this board.
From my perspective, there seem to be two main factions on the left, which are the old-school leftists, who range from communists to the odd hippie here and there. Though I politically disagree with these people, I've found that I can sit down over a cup of coffee with them and discuss ideas. Then there's the new left, which are a bunch of cat piss soaked lunatics who want to beat my head in because the media the told them to. They seem to be funded by a few very rich men in funny little hats. The new left doesn't care about workers or about economics or really anything at all. They have no principles and exist only as the play things of the rich and powerful, who use them to beat down meaningful opposition. I've spoken with communists who have been rejected by the likes of Antifa for not going along with LGBT shit, or whatever.
There's something similar happening on the right where you have what we call NeoCons, who are the retards who constantly suck off Israel and are happy to open up to borders for cheaper labor. I view them as NeoLeftists driving the speed limit. The far right is a resurgence of the traditional values and politics that were common decades ago, and this seems to be driving NeoCons and NeoLeftists up a fucking wall.
I also don't really understand the tactics of these groups. They seem to be clumsy and heavy handed, which I'm assuming is done with a purpose. Or maybe they're just stupid, who knows? I just think that going after someone to get them fired in order to deprive a political opponent of an income is really dumb, as it drives them further to the right. People get a lot angrier when they're hungry. It seems like the only response the new right and left have is to tighten their grip, and it isn't working.
What are your thoughts on this, Zig Forums? I'm looking for some new perspectives.
Your view of politics is cartoonish and your stream of consciousness blogposts ending in 'thoughts anyone?' don't deserve their own thread. newfags need to lurk for five minutes before posting.
Juan Nelson
You're not too far off in your analysis, though you're generalizing Antifa a bit too much. There are a bunch of smashie types, yes, but also plenty of genuine leftists.
Brayden Cook
This thread is proof that anti-idpol ideology is designed to split the left. Hurr durr. When is the right going to realize that cable news caters to their conspiracy-based belief systems?
Justin Sanchez
That's like, your opinion, man.
Could you explain a bit further?
Part of the reason why I and people on my side of the fence see Antifa as uncultured animals is because we can't get anywhere near them without them starting shit with us. Zig Forums talks a lot of shit but the guys who take part in IRL meetups and activism would be interested in talking to Antifa, if they were willing to listen without throwing things at us, and if they were open to being proven wrong. It seems like their one and only job is to be foot soldiers for the establishment who LARP as something else.
They seem to be ideologically lacking, which is why I've come to believe that they're just parroting what the TV tells them.
Mason Lewis
I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong on this.
Kevin Walker
We've seen your meetups user. You killed someone with a motor vehicle and then the rest of you defended it and called the leftists the real problem.
The meetups in my area consist of eating grilled meat and drinking cheap beer. As for the Heather Heyer thing, she was hit because she was in the road and Antifa were surrounding the car. Sucks she got run over, it would've all ended a lot nicer if you guys came over for BBQ instead. Our side is open if you'd ever like to approach us.
I've never killed anyone in my life. I'm not sure what you meant by this.
Sebastian Martinez
fuck off liberal
Nathaniel Hughes
no u
Christopher Martinez
Used-to-be stormfag. You talk big game about muh barbeques and how we should all just get along, and then advocate genocide and tell everyone the Jews are our shadow government and niggers are subhuman and if you don't want to live exactly the way society tells you you're a snowflake degenerate. See the problem with stormniggers is that when your minds are changed you make the most vicious antifa. Proud boys ain't never done nothin' wrong, no-sir
Jayden Cox
What you have to understand is that left-wing politics in the United States are intentionally a sad farce. They were engineered into hug boxes for spoiled petty bourgeois children: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO
Stormfags are an entirely different beast. I'd consider myself to be something else entirely. The one thing I really care about is the 14 words, and anything else I may believe outside of that or advocate for should be viewed as extension of the 14 words, or something that will facilitate the continuation of my people and a future for our children.
As for my view of other races, I don't hate them. I simply see them as different and incompatible. Jews are an issue but that problem doesn't need to solved with genocide. I'd be more than happy to just deport them to Israel.
I see the goal of the ethnostate as being just the first step in the evolution of my people. I'm more interested in the colonization of space and the advancement of science and technology.
Knowing this sort of stuff, I'd have to then ask you how you think that a real revolution would take off in a multi-racial society? I know mine can't. I know that I want a system of governance and a piece of land just for white people. I think that the identity politics are a symptom of incompatible peoples being forced to live in close proximity to each other. It causes nothing but strife and chaos and sucks for the working class. These races all fight with each other for dominance, just like any other creatures on this planet would.
Grayson Torres
Can tell me what your degree is on ?
Nathan Thomas
>I'd have to then ask you how you think that a real revolution would take off in a multi-racial society? It is a lot less outlandish and radical notion to us than it is to you. To the far left, identity politics are a tool of divide and conquer, something evident in liberals' complete inability to shut the fuck up about them for more than a week. Class struggle is the elephant in the room, and stoking racial tension is an effective way to hide it. The idea that the white ruling class gives a shit about the white working class is asinine. The success of the old-school Black Panthers is a good example of it. They abandoned black nationalism very early in the group's history after realizing that capitalism, not white power, was the source of black Americans' ills, and subsequently became the feds' top priority over idealists like the Nation of Islam.
Gabriel Jenkins
...
Jayden Martin
Bull. He was about a block away when he hit the gas. That's not even the go-to excuse Nazis give anymore.
Robert Bell
Why do Nazis lie about every fucking thing?
John Butler
Associate's in HVAC. Why?
But why does class struggle exist? I believe that it's because the ruling class has interests which include the elimination of the white working class.
I'm sorry user but jews aren't white. I know it's a tired argument but it's true. There is no more white ruling class in the Unite States anymore. Maybe 70+ years ago but not now.
I honestly don't care. I don't feel guilt over some guy I don't even know who hit some obese woman. It's shitty but it's not my problem.
You think I'm lying about enjoying a hot plate of ribs and ice cold beer? Why do you hate fun?
Jason Perez
Why are we supposed to care about Antifa, then. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Parker Murphy
The problem with broad-based antifascism from a communist perspective is that it's ultimately an avenue for class collaboration which serves to divert class action into preserving liberal democracy. Antifa misreading the situation by inflating the relevance of a relatively ineffectual burgeoning fascist movement or being a bit too recalcitrant are definitely real issues but they aren't going to be solved by reaching across the aisle to hear what the fascists are saying. What the fuck would you possibly talk about?
Austin Bell
Forgot to mention that burgers generally have a shit understanding of socialism and fascism. Their analysis of politics is usually quite shit.
Gabriel Flores
Zig Forums, who's fault is it that I can't tell an obvious Nazi troll from a typical centrist right poster anymore? Because it can't be my fault, my daddy gave me good advice.
Noah Smith
...
Michael Taylor
Very true but I'd say that extends past Burgerland's borders. The left as a whole doesn't know what the fuck it's doing.
Adrian Rodriguez
Because human beings are organisms with needs, so the means of production confer power. That makes literally no sense. anuddah shoah does not have a rational motive, it assumes the existence of cartoon villains that only exist to torment people. I'm not sorry when I say you have to be literally brainwashed to believe this.
Lincoln Adams
The point of that infographic was to show that the Neo-Left as you called it really took off immediately following the Occupy movement. In all likelihood the varied ideologies of the Neo-Left are simply outgrowths of COINTELPRO-style misdirection campaigns attempting to divert the left (yet again) towards factional struggles rather than focusing on a big-tent issue like capitalism and its failures. A related (but different) process happened to the far-right in the U.S. leading up to 2016. The various radical groups within the far-right were easily co-opted and neutralized by channeling their political energy into supporting Trump who is nothing more (despite what liberals say) than a means of pacifying the right-leaning side of the political spectrum. Trump is the Obama of the right.
Some of this is probably encouraged by authorities since clumsy and violent individuals tend to make good informants and tools. Encouraging people to engage in street fights or street protests (with a high likelihood of violence) makes it easier to arrest people, threaten them with jail-time, and turn them into informants. Another aspect of this is the lack of serious organization or infrastructure through which political groups can actually solidify themselves. This means that marginal political groups spend most of their time flailing around or signalling their ideology without being able to actually do anything concrete in the political sphere.
Leo Lee
there is literally one jew in this pic and the forbes list ignores the jew-hating islamic monarchs that have massive political influence
That's not true. There are many whites in the ruling class in the United States. They are, however, more than willing to sell out other white people if it allows them to maintain their own privileges and wealth. The white bourgeoisie does not have any loyalty to the white working class which is why they were always more than happy to import black slaves, chinese coolies, latin american migrant workers, hindu computer programmers, etc.
Luke Peterson
I disagree with this, to an extent. I view members of different classes who are of the same race and ethnicity as having more in common than members of the same class who are two different races. I view class struggle as a whole as the great task of uniting all of the classes of my race to work in unison to further our own people, and to create wonderful things. That's how I see fascism. It's everyone working together. I also see fascism as being almost entirely divorced from economics, which can be handled separately.
What we're talking about now, just face to face. It's extremely impersonal behind a screen and it often leads to miscommunication. Text based communication leaves a lot to be desired.
What are the means of production? I'd argue that the means of production are not capital, and they aren't things. The means of production are people. All original ideas and inventions and new uses for things come from the human imagination. Without workers, there is no production. Seizing wealth and material things leaves you empty.
The motivation behind it is control. The idea is to get all races to mix and destroy every culture and replace it with a fake, consumer culture. I believe that the people in power want an underclass of brown slaves that'll eat hamburgers and buy new shit until the end of time.
Jews themselves say they aren't white. They'll pretend to be white when it's convenient though. I find this behavior to be extremely dishonest and just shitty. A lot of the things I see jews doing and saying is just shitty. I don't take an issue with jews because they're jews. The ways in which they conduct themselves are abhorrent. Potted plants, amirite?
William Allen
a fucking joke in the US, weak in most parts of the world dead since like 2016, a spooky boogyman at this point. some random fuck(s) on Tumblr wanting more gay/trans/anything else rights is not a SJW dumb and waning in power. focuses on retarded shit instead of important things like imperialism or corruption
Adam Powell
It can't split the left any more than idpol itself already has.
Matthew Hill
You didn't have to type all that shit out. I already know you're a fascist.
Chase Rogers
Cause what you said is wrong Creatures fight for survival After that mostly males of the same speices will fight for "domination"
Luis Sanchez
I agree with this 100%. But again, what it comes down to in the end is who this sort of thing benefits. I think that's what we really disagree on. I think time will tell who's right.
It's easy to point to a few white guys with money and use it as evidence that jews don't have any influence. Having a lot of money doesn't necessarily make one influential. They have to use that money first. My argument is not and has never been that jews hold all or most of the money. My argument is that the ones who have substantial amounts of it are funneling it into certain things to create the changes they'd like to see. Examples include Soros, the guy who keeps fucking with small European and Asian countries and funding various groups in the US. There's also the Sackler family who are making massive profits off the opioid crisis through their Oxycontin patents and others for treatments for the resulting addictions.
Yeah, I'd agree with this. The few white elites out there have, through their own actions, turned in their white cards. I consider them to be traitors, and if they aren't jewish by blood or faith, they'll do until the real jews show up.
If you don't like my posts you don't have to read them. Like just turn your computer monitor off. Just look away.
Wyatt Bell
Most richkids spend the money in politics Both for ideological and economic reasons I can easily find white guys Koch is an ideolog(support for various conservatives) Musk is in for profit(support for alternative energies)
Gabriel Morgan
I read your shit because I'm trying to have a conversation with you but you're just talking past me. You used my critique of broad-based antifascism as a jumping off point to describe what class collaboration is. I already know what class collaboration is. I already know that you advocate for class collaboration. What I said has nothing to do with your response.
This is why people don't engage with fascists.
Andrew Jenkins
Beyond insufferable.
Christopher Reed
Do you see what I mean now about having a face to face conversation? Sorry if you feel like I'm talking over you, I didn't see what I said as coming off that way because I'm typing this out. It's slower and more difficult for me to properly articulate myself through text.
The only right I want to deny you is the right to live anywhere near me. If you don't like me, why should we live in the same nation? Instead of trying to kill each other, I'd rather just come to an agreement that I stay in my corner and you in yours. I know I'm gonna have to fight someone at some point. The fewer the better.
Anyhow, thanks for the conversation you guys. I'm gonna get going.
Blacks didn't choose to come here, natives were living here (before being mostly exterminated), hispanics have been in the the union since colonial times, and people who's grandparents and great grandparents moved here greatly outnumber the number of white nationalists alone, before diving into the statistics of white people not breeding with you. Imagine preaching muh lineage when your family tree looks like Jacob Snell's
Jeremiah Perry
Ideas mean nothing without the means to achieve them. That is what separates the left and right wing, we do not believe in any Great Men. All this is, is what capitalism does to society. Read Adorno. Yes, really. It's not what you think. I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT JEWS. The ruling class is not a specific ethnic group.
Dominic Rogers
the only reason migrants come into your country is because Neoliberal Capitalism has brought massive income inequality into developing countries, which makes the working class really really fucking poor. Even more so than developing America, since the US didn't even adopt free market policies until it actually had infrastructure.
Nathaniel Martinez
We could take this discussion into some very different directions but I'll just say that even if one acknowledges that there are more similarities within ethnic, racial, and national groups than between them, it still doesn't change the conflicting nature of class interests. Class collaboration is a nice sounding idea, but in practice the ruling class does not want to collaborate and never will.
Jason Hughes
Do you honestly believe this lmao All the major media disparages antifa (not an organization, just random who hate Nazis), that's why you think they are so scary and not totally marginal
Ryder Ortiz
Thank you leftists who came into this not autistic screeching at the man and actually interested in a constructive conversation. This kind of thing is winning me over more and more every day.
I used to be a Not Socialist for a while but recently got pretty class conscious and investigated Marxist theory and its branching elements and found a lot of desirable things. I was particularly attracted to Revolutionary Catalonia , the Paris Commune, etc and the freedoms they enjoyed with nary a sign of the myriad problems conservatives ensured me would arise in such situations. I've come to the conclusion that despite warnings to the contrary, Communist societies are not inherent destroyers of culture and in fact may be much greater protectors of it than any soulless modern capitalist society ever could be. America, arbiter of global capitalism, is currently a train wreck of a cultural wasteland as is plain to see.
I really only have two big hang ups left
Firstly, is this habit of incessant "I'm offended, you can't say that!" crap something I should expect in an authentic Communist society, or a product of the whiny bourgeois attitude we have here in the West? I'm not going to stop someone from being homosexual or believing in what they want or whatever, but am I going to get physically lynched for calling people retards and faggots even in jest?
And secondly the race/culture issue. Are you guys SURE that integrating wildly different people wont have some serious ramifications? Is there anything to stop people from just choosing to discriminate in favor of their own kind and eventually evolving to a position of localized power where they could then chose to harass or do worse to their racially/culturally different neighbors? I mean this is what humans have *apparently* been doing for a very long time, I just have to assume that tribalism is something they're going to resort to as a default. Would we assume the communes would just retain their local cultures and demographics and the incentive for mass migration would not really exist in a post capitalist world? If there's something more comprehensive like a book or video I that answers this, that would be fine too.
Thanks for (most of you) not being the dismissive assholes I'm used to dealing with among the tradfags
