DFNS YPG/J thread

With Turkey saying they are planning a military operation on the eastern side of the Euphrates, do you think they'll be able to repel it?

Do you think they'll manage to negotiate with Assad, or will he eventually crush them too

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Negotiations are between equals. They will beg.

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Why would they have to beg when they can be useful for him.
Also even Russia - Syria's biggest defender - seems to be in favour of them gaining autonomy, meaning that they'll probably end up pushing Syria towards doing it

Idk
Compared to his father nu-Assad is not that strong
In bulgaria the anti-turk communist regime has fallen
In greece the competent PASOK has also fallen
Erdogan now plays in the interational table
The Kurds are strong and pround people so idont think Erdogan(with his mercenaries) will get too far….
Also seems the kurds could have common goals with the USA and russia so…

Well apparently the International coalition is gonna stay in one big US military base in Syria areas until 2020 during which they will be provided with military support in the form of training and weapons.

While this makes a big Syrian or Turkish intervention less likely, we also have to ask ourselves to what extent the components of the one big US military base in Syria organizations which are still young will be exposed to and subverted by US and foreign interests.

The only use for an American puppet is to be chopped into firewood.

turn down the ideology lad.

From a purely pragmatic standpoint accepting US help is the only thing that stops them from getting curbstomped by Erdo's ambitions to be a sultan once again and his mercenaries and/or Assad

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kek

no.
when the time is ready for Dad to show up, it won't be a fight, they will simply disappear
mark my words

gg.

Kill yourself

(X) Doubt

obviously, the government has been open to talk with everyone
they're not in the position to be picky
even with their advances it is only in Assads interest to keep peace with as many factions as possible that he can get close enough on his side, anything else means political suicide and prolonging the conflicts
russia isn't intervening on his side out of altruism either, they want to maintain stability in the region, so they too would advice him, if it wasn't already what he was going for
crushing the kurds would be the most stupid thing imaginable
it's more of a question of how they'll be able to play their cards having invited the americans and getting themselves between various conflicting interests

tell me more about papa apo praising your efforts in this thread
c'mon son

Both the one big US military base in Syria and the Americans made it clear that the alliance was purely tactical and situational.

Also, given America's situation inside the NATO an alliance with russia and/or peace talks between Assad and the Kurds mediated by russia seem quite likely to me.

That being said, it also depends on how Turkey reacts to those news

somehow this is puppetry.

Are the Kurds also Russian puppets? Given that Russia also has forces that operate out of their territory against ISIS… even though the Russians are pro Assad?

You are a fucking idiot

thank fuck for a sensible answer. Assad is going to try and keep Syria together as much as is humanely possible. Given the situation with Kurds, them being by now a well developed and almost universally popular military force within their region, engaging in a civil war with them would be a silly, silly move

the fucking delusion

But would it not be in Kremlin`s interests to back Kurdish opposition to NATO country like Turkey in the first place?

gg.

t. someone who defends DFŃS against MLs, Ba'athists, and Turks on the internet and is appreciated by Serok Apo for combating their critics and opponents.

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They have a huge popular support you retard.
Both at home and in foreign countries.

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R..ojava is not Marxist and thus will fail as it Dosent base its economic and societal foundations upon Materialism and science and instead builds it upon Utopianism which has always failed

But muh not Marxist enough

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R..ojava literally isn't Marxist "At all"

A coalition between them and Assad still is the best hope for the region

Will Literally never happen while US bases remain in their Area
A number of weeks back a coalition of parties sent a petition asking for an alliance between the Baath-YPG/SDF And the US occupation forces literally just said "No" and the matter was dropped

Academic Marxists stuck in the 19th century will tell you that one big US military base in Syria bears no consequence for the world proletarian revolution and therefore it is unworthy of curiosity or analysis. Why? Because it doesn't follow the formula of the Paris Commune or October Revolution. If Marx was alive today he'd tell all these people to go fuck themselves. Every socialist project is worthy of analysis. Marx understood the importance of observation for the theory. But these academics are uninterested in the activity of any group unless they: 1) call themselves communists and call on the ghost of Marx to give them credibility; 2) are committed to an international revolution from the start, regardless of whether this puts their survival in jeopardy, it's all or nothing from the start line; 3) have no marks of nationalism, but must be an international movement that does not seek national liberation.

How do I know? Cause I spoke to one. Then when I told him that for the Paris Commune and October Revolution the conditions at the time were a state of war. France just lost to Germany and Paris was occupied, Russia was in WWI, both countries had shit conditions at home. More importantly, they had disillusioned soldiers. Røjava becoming a thing would add stability to the region, which is bad for the world revolution. Then when I asked him should we support Israel in the region to further destabilise Syria and recreate the conditions of Paris Commune or October Revolution he refused to comment. Oh yeah, North Korea is also bad cause they don't do shit for the world revolution.

I just want to illustrate how dumb a myopic view of the situation sounds. You can't expect every socialist project to work on some sort of universal template. Furthermore, all of these "leftists" against Røjava do so from the comfort of their own nation-states where their rights and lives are secured and guaranteed. Kurds in Syria, Turkey, Iraq don't have that luxury.

There wasn't a global hegemonic power back then you fucking infant.

This is on par with that fucking "Well if them having bases is bad how come Stalin took US tanks XD" tier intentional ignorance of Historical conditions

Also im certainly not criticizing them for not being Internationalist enough
If anything i criticize them for being so Anti-State that it becomes detrimental to their own movement and borders on Utopionoid tier thinking

That's not the dominant criticism of R*java. The dominant criticism is, well deserved, that they have let themselves become a tool of the US. I don't remember the Paris Commune having Prussian bases, and the Bolsheviks basically had to beat off military incursions of every single imperialist power. There is a difference between opportunistically using inter-imperialist conflict to foment revolution and build socialism, and becoming a cat's paw of any one imperialist power.

I love how every one of these threads immediately devolve into a shitflinging contest between retarded ☭TANKIE☭s and retarded anarkiddies instead of, you know, actually discussing the Syrian Civil War. But no, Zig Forums is too busy idolizing their strongmen and qt brown grills to actually talk seriously about this.

were funded by Germans through banks in Sweden. Your point?

Do you really think they have a choice?
It's as pragmatic as they can get while ensuring their survival.

Both sides stressed that the alliance is purely tactical.

Please kill yourself if you cannot see farther than pragmatic alliances of convenience

I highly doubt those bases will remain for long tbh.
Erdogan is bitching like there's no tomorrow about it and they'll probably end up conceding

There isn't one now either. Is US hegemony present in Ukraine and the Baltic states? No. That's Russia. China is becoming a major geopolitical player as well. You're conflating the hegemony of capitalism, which doesn't have American characteristics everywhere, with American hegemony and the two aren't the same. Often they do appear at the same time, giving them the appearance of being the same. The two do come apart often: Nordic states are US/NATO allies with their own capitalism, Russia has capitalism but is not a US/NATO ally.


They're not anti-State, but they're anti bourgeoisie states. Their self-management confederalist model will result in a State, just not a liberal one.


Evidence of them becoming a 'paw'? I haven't seen one big US military base in Syria/J and one big US military base in Syria undertake any action for the benefit of the US or US interests? They're still acting in their own interest. Until one big US military base in Syria engages targets that are not a threat to itself, but a threat to US interests alone, will this 'puppetry' be evident. Until then all you have left is receiving aid and training = being a puppet, and since USSR received military aid from the US, and you don't call the USSR an imperialist puppet, this means that the equivalence is false.

the world isn't your anarchist fanzine

Yes, I'm sure all those Kurds are itching to break free from the tyrannical rule of the PYD and leap into the loving arms of Bashar the Destroyer and Sultan Erdogan.

Of the various militias around, they are undoubtedly the most most developed. Who is a more capable military force involved in the conflict which is not an established state actor? Also LOL if you think they don't have popular support, what exactly is your proof to the contrary?


it is and they do


I mean this isn't even true, basically all of the PKK are former Leninists, other involved parties are Leninist or Maoist. The PKK itself is still structured exactly like a Leninist party is, they have just altered tactics pragmatically (like leninists are supposed to do)… the PYD is made of people from this heritage. Read fucking anything you retard. The revolution is lead by cadre who give leadership to the communities in self defence and economic organisation. What they have in place is more or less the NEP

Okay so I assume your analysis from (clearly barely) reading shit off the internet is much more scientifically valid than their analysis which has been built entirely on the struggle they themselves have been involved in for decades? What exactly is unscientific? They have looked at their conditions and adopted policy that fits i.e. focussing on womens liberation and ethnic unity in a place destroyed by ethnic disunity and the oppression of women…


or most major ML parties just not obscure trot sects who think ISIS are anti imperialist


already answered this you clearly don't know what you are talking about "at all"

*of the four or five people I know who have volunteered and gone, all are Stalinist

you do realise organisations like AFED originally didn't support the Kurdish revolution because of its Stalinist heritage and it is supported by most communists. You talk completely out of your ass. Go into the real world

They successfully used inter imperialist conflict. Learn to read you infantile brainlet.

Their entire landgrabbing offensive east of the Euphrates was just that, depriving Syria of oil and gas fields. Or do you think it was a total coincidence that the offensive only started when the SAA moved to relieve Kurweis and DeZ? No. Once it became clear that the SAA was going to liberate all of IS occupied Syria, the US spurred its Kurdish puppets to take the place of the useful idiots of IS. Not to mention the US airstrikes against SAA forces for "menacing" one big US military base in Syria forces.

Maybe they conceived it as a tactical alliance of convenience, but everything after Kobane points towards total subservience.

Please explain exactly how this is true? There is a difference between wanting civic society to control the state and being anti state. Give one example of how this has been detrimental? If anything they have become infinitely more successful once they update their ideological basis

Except its the exact opposite, conditions have shaped ideology, not the other way round. Utopian would be shoehorning in old ML ideology developed in early 1900's Russia verbatim instead of developing a theory which suited their conditions, which is what they have done

My friend in Qamishlo told me everyone hates the PYD because they aren't Marxist and want to be ruled by al-Assad, a true anti-imperialist leader

Apo abandoned Marxism like 30 years ago because it fails all the time. The handful of """leftists"""" who still believe that garbage should do the same.

Well my friend in Kobane said the opposite.

If what you say is true and the majority of people in Northern Kurdistan feel this way why hasn't there been a counter revolution backed by Assad?

It was a development not an abandoning. Like Maoism was a development of Marxism Leninism. I really don't see how you think it has failed, in comparison to other "leftist" ideologies…give me an example of another one that has done more for the wokring class?

This would be true if 1) Røjava didn't need oil; 2) the oil Røjava extracts goes to the US.
1) obviously isn't true because Røjava has use for oil. And you have to show that Røjava has been exporting to and/or securing oil fields for US to extract oil from for 2).

The SAA wasn't able to liberate all of IS occupied Syria. If that were true then there wouldn't have been any room/power vacuum for Røjava to establish itself. Syria needed one big US military base in Syria/YPJ/DFNS to defeat ISIS.

Nope. The Bolsheviks were just useful idiots (:^)) the Germans used to destabilise the Russian empire and get them out of the war. German Empire paid the Bolsheviks close to 500M€ in today's money. And Lenin came back to St. Petersburg on a train from Germany chartered by Wilhelm II.

(Obviously I don't think Lenin or USSR were imperialist puppets because they weren't. And Røjava isn't either) There are those who accuse Lenin of being a German agent. That's the company you keep.

Imagine being so ignorant as to be able to make such confident but blatantly ridiculous statements in earnest. Just because you call others 'infantile' and tell them 'learn to read' doesn't make you smart, or even make you look intelligent. Quite the opposite actually. Your bravado is doing you a disservice because that's all your post is, there's no substance behind it and your argument breaks down because it is being propped up by hot air.

How exactly are they not Marxist?

They simply adapted Marxism to suit their conditions, which is what's supposed to be done instead of adhering to all its tenets and achieving fuckall because they are outdated.

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[Citation needed]

Please point out how R*java "needing" oil and gas, or the US not taking it for itself directly, contradicts the point that the goal was depriving Syria of them.

As to you point about the SAA not being able to liberate all Syria - if you had actually followed the offensives as they were happening, it would have been abundantly clear that at that point in time they were fully able to do so. In fact, it was only because of the utter annihilation of IS at the hands of the SAA on other fronts that the S-D-F could move into the areas emptied of troops. It is in fact the S-D-F that is the one creating a security vacuum - this is proven by how now that IS has regrouped on the east bank of the Euphrates and is actually offering some resistance, the S-D-F are being handily beaten again (whoda thunk morale of puppet troops would be low). The SAA meanwhile just racked up another victory against IS near in the Al Safa region.

*casually forgets to mention that the one big US military base in Syria has to move most of its forces to the north to be able to repel the incoming Turkish invasion*
If they could focus entirely on that resistance pocket they would've won by now


Also the conflicts around Hajin are the last stand of ISIS, they are ready to make much more sacrifices than the one big US military base in Syria because they probably know that they'll go down with that city

There certainly are legitimate critiques to be made of R.ojava but this sure as hell ain't it fam.

Ignoring the US military base issue for a second, it seems like some people are reflexively opposed to R.ojava simply because they're a socialist movement that's not explicitly Leninist. This is stupid ass dogmatism.

Because they took the oilfields not to deprive Syria of them, but because they needed the oil. Are you really going to reformulate a sentence and call it an argument? If I go to the store and buy bread, am I buying bread because I need it or because I want to deprive the store of bread?

So why didn't they?

Because the US would have (and did) bomb SAA forces approaching the Euphrates. And miss me with fucking porkypedia.

Yeah, who could have expected that, totally unexpected hostility from the Turks.

Look, the amount of anarkiddie self-gaslighting ITT is off the charts. No sane person can look at the actual timeline of events and come away thinking R*ojava are masters of their own fate. Initially, the Kurds stepped into a vacuum that existed because of the civil war. Opportunistic of them, but we'll let it pass. Then they came under attack by IS, most dramatically in Kobane. The US helped them out of that tight spot, and the Kurds proceeded to secure all Kurdish areas from IS. If that had been the end of it, there would be not much ground for accusing them of perfidious intentions. BUT. Then they started under American tutelage an offensive into non-Kurdish areas, where they had no business being and are still not welcome, as evidenced by an ongoing insurrection in the non-Kurdish areas. Why the fuck are they there? This is not about self protection anymore, and actually makes the Kurdish areas less safe, as it has stretched their forces thin - they were always going to have to defend against the Turk in the end. No wonder they leave the south undefended as soon as the watermelon seller rears his head.

The Kurds have wasted many lives conquering these non-Kurdish areas, only to leave themselves overextended. Does not seem like a self-interested move on their part. In fact all that it has accomplished is to drive a wedge into the so-called Shia Crescent. Note well that it was a race to see who would reach the Iraqi border first, and that it was obviously the US intention (looking also at their garrison in Al Tanf, isolated only thanks to the lighting offensives by the Tiger forces) to try and physically separate Syria from Iraq.

The R*java southern offensives served one party only, namely the one filling the are with its military bases.

Which is exactly what the PYD have done. Literally continuing the revolutionary tradition of using imperialist money to kill other imperialists and then screw over the first imperialists.

How are people this dumb? That was clearly a joke.

Who says they have no business being their? The PYD is not an ethno-centric movement, they’re a revolutionary one. Why should they limit their operations to Kurds? Should they have left the people in those regions under ISIS tyranny instead?
I’m calling bullshit on that statement unless you can provide me numbers showing that people there don’t want them there. The presence of a insurrection is meaningless, since it doesn’t indicate majority support. A small group of determined militants could easily put together such an insurrection without the support of the people in the region.
How would you know? Do you have better knowledge of the strategic situation than the SyDF fighters and commanders on the ground? Forgive me if I trust the judgement of the actual combatants over that of an keyboard general.
And you know what doesn’t serve US interests? Collaborating with Assad, Hezbollah, and Russia while fighting against US backed FSA terrorists and Turkish NATO fascists. Your entire position rests on you thinking that you have a better grasp of the military situation than the people doing the fighting, and speculating about Kurdish intentions based on that.

Whether they are Marxist or not is beside the point. Neither is Assad but people all support him, and rightly so. The class struggle takes on a form unique to its conditions, and won’t always express itself as an explicitly Marxist revolution in the stoke of the October Revolution.

t. standpoint subjectivist

Everything I don't like is subjectivist

And in fact almost never does

Cucked by ideology

Another false equivalence
After Brest-Livistok Lenin didn't let the German's build dozens of bases in RFSSR Territory and control its foreign policy
And they eventually did turn against the German empire which will never happen in the R..Ojava-USA relationship

What does Zig Forums think of based Noam Chomsky? Is he redpilled?

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Assad is just a neoliberal. You tell me.

Oh this one again
Literally read Trotsky's "British Empire vs Brazil" shit

no one's perfect

No but socialism should take precedents over capitalist states you dumb fuck. And answer my other crits you worm, you dog

is this peak ideology?

It's so socialism when you are the puppet brigade of the united states (btw the largest and most powerful capitalist empire who is the enforcer the entire global capitalist system) who supplies and funds your everything and uses your territory as a military base and a bargaining chip against their enemies. Remember when the USSR was occupied by the allies who funded and supplied them and had a military base in Petrograd which they used to bomb the monarchist forces

R.oojava Dosent claim to be socialist it claims to follow DemCon which is all about democratisation pseudo-NatLib and RadFeminism


Wait I've been told this whole thread that there "is" no conflict between Syria and R..ojava? That R..ojava was going to ally with Syria the second the US "eventually" shut down its bases?
Now you admit there is conflict?

And like I replied to black flag R..ojava isn't even explicitly socialist and still allows private Buisness (Including Co-ops) to exist

So did the USSR faggot remember the bit you didn’t reply to where I said what they have is like the NEP? Every socialist experiment pretty much ever has gone bit by bit with the economy and that is thoroughly Marxist.

Radlib. Lol. Yes, those people navigating the most hotly contested area for religious and tribal disputes and liberating women from the giant rape machine that is ISIS with their militia is radical liberalism. It’s actually all about trans rights and not clapping and jazz hands at meetings

God you are fucking retarded

No it fucking doesn’t. Assad pays for their healthcare. If they are an American puppet why would he do this? Or are you just privvie to a secret that Assad isn’t ?

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Yes except the USSR eventually did move to a socialist economy which R..ojava will not do
while this is good there is nothing inherently socialist about Women's liberation as most of the first world shows
And show me where i where i accused them of being "RadLib"?
This simply shows its un-viability as an independent state as it is reliant economically off the Syrian government and Militarily off USA
Not Inherently no

you have zero proof of this, it is already doing so. It is in fact carrying out work lenin wanted to do but never managed in turning the businesses over to co-operative societies.

except in happens within the locus of a socialist revolution. On top of this if you knew shit about it, which you fucking don't, you would know its a tactical necessity as society there wasn't socially developed enough for socialism, now its getting there quickly.


Except its one facet of the economy and they are building up their own healthcare systems. Probably they could do this much better without the embargo that their neighbours all support and the US also supports.
in this context it most definitely is.

Except you are assuming it’s permenant, based on nothing really. If the Kurds wanted them gone then they would be gone, it’s not like they could operate without SyDF support.

Imagine actually believing this
The US has already stated it has no intention of pulling out even after IS is defeated and after the Situation with Turkey is settled
If the Kurds ask the US to leave the US will just turn the area over to Turkey and keep the bases there

Which would risk confrontation with both Assad and Russia. Do you think Assad would let Turkey occupy such a huge chunk of their territory?

Rojava

Yeah sure.
If they do that the whole thing is gonna become a meat grinder in which the Y-P-G will just fight a merciless guerrilla war on the turks, probably even with Syrian and Russian assistance

This is blatantly false. Most major ML parties, while do not outright condemning R*ojava like the ML online sphere are at least very critical of it and do not participate in their fight, and the ones who do unconditionally support them are indeed Maoist cults or Hoxhaists who aren't to be taken seriously.

There difference between the NEP/War Communism and whatever one big US military base in Syria is doing is that the Bolsheviks constantly warned against opening Pandora's box, agitated against the "NEP men" and kulaks, and were constantly pressured by the left opposition within the party to end it and to collectvize while the economic leaders of one big US military base in Syria do not make any implications of the sort, they seem to want to make a long-term arrangement with a market and private property. Anarchists quote-mine them all the time and most of time their commitments to socialism are dubious at best.

Also Bat'ko, what would your new friends on Twitter say that you are using ableist slurs?

I hope you're not one of those ML's who still upholds China then.

stop skipping over my crits it is clear you have no answers.


such as

critical support is still support. Marxism Leninism is all about criticism so thats to be expected. They do on the whole support the revolution however

Kek they already stated that their partnership is purely tactical. I also have a hard time seeing such a thing get congress approval given the fiasco in Iraq and in Afghanistan.

the Kurds are quite obviously also in a position where their economy is a war economy and not the ideal economy. They also do constantly talk about the effect of the market, particularly the international market when it comes to the embargo being dropped and (potentially) opening up trade with other countries, they are highly aware of the devastating effect this could have

"they seem to want" seems like you projecting your own biases rather than looking at the actuality, which is a bunch of very recent die hard stalinists who have decided to take a slightly different approach to their revolution.

Right up to the end the USSR still operated a mixed market economy, there has never been a socialist revolution which has not done this, there has never been communism.

Supposedly your critique is from an ML perspective and yet you seem to want to follow the anarchist capitalism straight to communism skipping the socialism part.

The phase the kurds are in right now is quite clearly the dictatorship of the proletariat, with which they are implementing socialism

The social contract states that energy, land are fully social, the social contract is written to be updated and review regularly, so what they have now is the very basics which are socialised in name, and this processed is being slowly carried out, along with a mixed market economy controlled by a revolutionary party. Sounds like absolutely every other ML economy to me

also im not batko lol

It's nice to see a black flag poster who is not incredibly dumb. You seem to be arguing that one big US military base in Syria is basically following a Leninist model of socialist revolution (adapted to the peculiar conditions faced by that movement) and that it's a dictatorship of the proletariat, and you seem to view this as a positively? Do you consider yourself an anarchist and in that case what are your thoughts on ML generally?

you seem to view this positively*

used to be a time when i was the only black flag, i left for about a year and now im back.

R.ojava IS following a leninist model of socialist revolution, although their focus on national liberation and cultural revolution put it more in area of MLM, not through some ideological dogma but because that is the conclusion they have come to. This is based on 1) reading about from various sources 2) conversations with volunteers who have been there

Ex anarchist, still hold that they have a lot of valuable contributions, even just dialectally, I believe in Marxism and I believe in direct democracy following the cockshott line, but having been in many organisations i understand why you need a vanguard and looking at the reality of a revolution why you would need top down hierarchy, because you need some level of secrecy, which therefore means you will necessarily have grades of knowledge, which will create hierarchies defacto, and when you are fighting battles you can't vote and come to consensus on most things, and the revolution needs to be coherent i.e everyone sticking to more or less the same plan

and yes i do view the revolution there very positively as an example of actually existing socialism, they have greatly empowered the working class and provided them with a greater material abundance its a no brainer.

The idea that they are an American puppet is frankly ludicrous.

based