Julian Assange: Sanders as president would not lead to peace

Julian Assange: Sanders as president would not lead to peace

twitter.com/julianassange/status/875752402208653312

libertyhangout.org/2017/06/julian-assange-roasts-bernie-sanders-twitter-says-not-lead-peace/


While the right-libertarian article puts a moronic anything-the-government-does-is-socialism spin on it, Assange's tweet does make an interesting point that many Marxists-Leninists, Maoists and other revolutionary socialists also agree with. If a capitalist state is forced from within to make economic concessions (commonly known as "social democratic" reforms, which include increasing the minimum wage and nationalising some essential services like health insurance) to its own citizens, the state will invariably ramp up imperialism (cleverly disguised as "spreading democracy" or "war on terrorism" via manufactured consent) to make up the difference in wealth lost to the nation's capitalist class by exploiting and plundering weaker, non-nuclear-armed countries. In other words, as long as the state still runs under a capitalist economy (which results in dictatorship of capitalists as opposed to dictatorship of the proletariat), placating its citizens with reforms will only shift the brunt of exploitation from one group to another because imperialism is the highest stage of capitalism.

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Other urls found in this thread:

nymag.com/intelligencer/2016/11/wikileak-hashes-dont-match-so-whats-going-on.html),
thedailybeast.com/bernie-sanders-loves-this-dollar1-trillion-war-machine
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parody
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

I find it hilarious how people think that Bernie Sanders is "big" even though he's doing shit normal Republicans would have recommended 50 years ago. America has been so cucked by corporate ideology at this point I don't think we can even call it a civilization anymore.

Predictably, lots of Democrats and "progressives" seem to think tribally. Their line of thinking is basically: "If lives of Americans are improved, I will look past the foreign policy. God bless America." Of course they don't fully understand capitalism, imperialism, or basically anything outside their precious country so they can't figure out the implications of social democracy and there not being any mention of anti-imperialism (which requires a revolution in America's case).

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He's not wrong. There's a reason why the Labor Aristocracy was/is so bloodthirsty in the US.

Well yeah, this sounds a lot like something Julian 'I am a big admirer of Ron Paul' Assange would say.

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Are there actual examples of that?

I'm not sure where you're getting that from, it seems the liberals replying believe that the foreign imperialism would not necessarily increase due to socdem domestic reforms. That "better than what we've had for 50 years" poster seems to think a Sanders administration would decrease US military interventions. And the "deep state leaves no room for going against the grain of imperialism" poster seems to recognize in some sense the OPs point.

Eh I don’t really accept this axiom of “neoliberalism and deregulation = less imperialism/ SocDem = Imperialism ultramax”, this is almost self evidently flasw if we look at the last 30+ years of U.S. policy.
Assange is showing himself to once again, be an absolute fucking moron, and hard to sympathize with.
And even if it were true, who exactly do you picture Bernie invading? What if a left wing military intervention is what we need? Why not an invasion of Brazil?

What is

Fascist Italy
Nazi Germany
Cold War USA

Welfare States are tied to Imperialism.

Bernie Bombed Yugoslavia and went War-Hawk when Trump met with Putin.

This is not gonna happen just because Sanders is elected dumbass. He'd get shot by a "lone, unhinged terrorist" way before that.

No, fuck you. Be more specific. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Also nordic countries.

Europe is only sustainable thanks to France's Shadow Empire, IMF that keeps Capitalism alive, and NATO protection that is 100% American.

how does french neocolonialism impact Europe? it seems if there's a european empire, it's internal and mostly German
keep telling yourself that, burger

Not him, but please explain I'm idiot about this.

Bernie did not single handedly push for bombing Yugoslavia. It was a case of the main criticism one can have with him, being too spineless to go against the grain. But if actually in office, and being shown how far you can get when the establishment hates you(even if from the right wing Trump), I see that way less likely to happen.

Yet you also argue that imperialism is gonna increase because he’s elected? Be consistent. Not to mention the president has the ability to send troops for 90 days before needing congressional approval, and most presidents have simply ignored that.

This is my first post in this thread.

Was assuming you were agreeing with OP/Assange’s claim

correction : it's not, but the point still stands.

What’s the Assange take on Corbyn? Corbyn’s foreign policy (anti interventionism, anti nuclear and anti NATO) seems somewhat sane compared to the warmongering neoconservativism which has held sway in the U.K for the past 30 years.

is that the implication here

Assange is a faggot and his reasoning is retarded, but he is not wrong. Sanders vehemently supported the bombing of Yugoslavia and the Iraq war, among other wars, and it makes sense that he would probably pull an Obama and deepen US expansionism, but apply a human face to it.

Assange is a lolbert, my understanding is that his opinion is "HURR DURR COMMIE xD"

FYI Wikileaks and Assange have been comprised for a while (nymag.com/intelligencer/2016/11/wikileak-hashes-dont-match-so-whats-going-on.html), I just ignore anything to do with them now.

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A Libertarian in 2018?! I though they all traded in their Ron Paul shirts for brown shirts. Seriously though it is a bankrupt ideology like all forms of liberalism.

A funny way to troll libertarians (particularly Ayn Rand objectivists) is to rail on Mark Zuckerberg, who is a putz, and force them to defend him because their ideology necessitates them squeezing their cocks over billionaires as they believe they deserve every penny.

This. After a certain point, it's safe to assume that any "truth-seeker" or "leaker" has been compromised.

France and the UK still run nearly all of their former colonies via corporate ties and government lending and what not

So according to Assange president Bernie Sanders would be more imperialistic than the average neocon war hawk (who generally wants to privatize as much shit as possible) because Sanders wants to reform the healthcare system and state funded higher education. Absolutely retarded.

No, I don't think electing Bernie president would "lead to peace". By leftist standards, he doesn't have a perfect record when it comes to foreign policy, but it's completely wrong to think his mild socdem faggotry would somehow automatically make him worse (than the status quo) on foreign issues.

Norway isn’t even in the EU fam.

He opposed the Iraq war, it was one of the big points of debate between him and Clinton in the primaries.

I seriously doubt it. The dissolution of the welfare state and a move to permanent warfare have gone hand in hand. American socdems are unironically a threat to US hegemony (though they don't realize it) because education, healthcare, welfare and infrastructure spending is a threat to the MIC. Why else do you think limp-dicked socdems are demonized so hard?

This is bullshit, the US has been a brutal empire for its entire existence. If anything it was worse when they was no welfare state. Capitalists always seek to maximize profit. Show me a billionaire who says "no need to kill that African president, I'm getting enough profit from American workers".

The US has been in a state of permanent warfare since 1776, the welfare state went from nothing, to moderately robust, to small and weak over that time with no change in imperialist motives.

He’s right, but not because of his retarded reasoning

The same is true of literally every imperialist state. In fact I can’t think of a single example of a state whose increased or decreased imperialism mirrored its increased or decreased welfare state.

Assange is just afraid because Sanders hates him for getting Trump elected, and so is making up bullshit to get his dumb libertarian followers to vote for Trump in 2020.

Imagine believing this.

If I were Assange, I would have escaped the UK forever ago.

Sanders does have garbage foreign policy tho

He did, though. He had good reasons to - Clinton wanted to kill him and getting Trump elected would accelerate America's decline. He still did it, though, and pretending otherwise is just dumb.

Yeah but not because of his social/economic policies.

it's also not any different from any of the other 2016 nominees, and I doubt 2020 will be any better

If I recall, essentially as a legacy of colonialism France holds 65% of the foreign currency reserves of 15 African states. They deposit the reserves in France in the central bank. France pays them a low interest rate (don't remember what), and keeps the rest of any profit they make on the money for themselves.

me
Don't know if that is what is meant by shadow empire.

Pretty sure the term “shadow empire” just refers to the fact that France has switched to neocolonialism instead of naked colonialism.

Awful political commentary.

thedailybeast.com/bernie-sanders-loves-this-dollar1-trillion-war-machine

meh, i like JA but this is some of his lolbert rubbish.
Trump is less of an imperialist than Clinton, and Bernie would be a bit less than Trump. But ultimately it's a machine that no president is going to end in the foreseeable. Taxing the rich and giving people health care or free college is not going to make it worse.

In the case of the US the opposite should be true because of the already massive military spending.

what about jimmy carter though?

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I know people IRL who still don't know why he wasn't impeached for giving away the Panama Canal.

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the left was still way too soft on him imo

Lol imagine taking a Ron Paul supporter seriously

I'm so glad this piece of shit is being extradited.

There is so much more to Trumps victory than Assange. I’d say the DNC”s corruption is a huge part of that

The thing is, if Sanders wants to implement his reform agenda and not get Business Plotted, he will have to capitulate to a power bloc. The bloc that does not have much ambitions domestically is the MIC. Bernie may make an unholy alliance with them that will see the intensification of imperialism while the arms industry backs the government. Or he needs to moderate his agenda to cozy up to another powerbloc like big Pharma or the oil barons.

Lol what the fuck is wrong with your brain you reddit simp?

He's right. Bernie would be your typical american imperialist if he were ever elected.

I asked for explanations you shit for brain. Throwing around "lolol nazis" with nothing else is not an argument. And calling fascist states "welfare state" is dubious at best given the destruction of labor regulations and unions they enacted.

he could just make sure vets get proper care

Trump was better.

You're technically correct in that they aren't actual members, however they're in regulatory alignment with the EU, part of the Schengen Area, the EEA, and EFTA, they just don't use the Euro or help make the rules.

sanders is a pro-israel liar, a 100% truth

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This take is stupid.

Wrong, "political capital" is a nonsense term. Real life is not Hearts of Iron where you spend political power to pass policies. Passing popular policies obviously makes you more powerful, not less.

He is right. We do not need a phony populist in control, we need the PEOPLE. ADVOCATE FOR SWISS DEMOCRACY, DO NOT ELECT YOUR DICTATORS

Ffs, this Rosa killer has been spamming the board with muh Sooisse democracy for days.
Listen: the biggest money laundering scheme pretending to be a country has elected assemblies at every level of government (national, cantonal and municipal) and every level of government has an executive body. Plus, there are political parties (muh rightwing populists, muh succdems, muh christdems, muh liberals, muh greens and sho on and sho on).

Is this sperg-out king ban evading or has he not been banned yet?

I am for elected representatives, but with the right for popular initiative as a pre-condition.

I elect for you to suck my dick.

This is great. Did you make this? You should tweet this to Unruhe, it will get him real mad.

Not necessarily, since demilitarization would save a lot of money which could then be spend domestically instead.

I never liked Assange. He is actually a traitor to the original wikileaks idea, which was
1. to not discriminate what leaks to publish and what to retain based on some political ideology
2. offer the most secure/anonyous platform for whistleblowers
3. not annotate the leaks with any sort of ideological commentary as Assange does in addition to the leaks, but simply leave them as raw source
4. Not make anyone the frontman of wikileaks who then gets worshipped as a kind of anti-USA Bond-villain celebrity and makes the whole operation then dependent on that one person and vulnerable to corruption

Wikileaks was a good idea. But Assange is an idiot.

you'd think he'd realize that pandering to Trump would get him nowhere because his whole ideology threatens the state. such is the plight of the centrist liberal, I guess.

Julian Assange is right that Sanders as president would not lead to peace, you know what would lead to piece ? SWISS style DEMOCRACY

…Wait, sabocat and swisssocdem are the same poster? I'm so confused.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parody

Peaceful? No. America has to be imperialistic to survive. Better than the alternatives? Maybe?

Which is why Sweden is the most imperialistic nation on earth.

Sweden keeps its welfare state afloat via having a massive military industrial complex that specializes in fighting russians

It is fucking imperialistic.

what

Dunno mang, Scandinavia isn't particularly renowned for imperialist ventures. Sure, they send the token troops to wars against 3rd world shitholes, but their strong social-democratic policies hardly co-relate with increased foreign aggression.

Further, you're operating under the asumption that the profits of imperialist wars go into public coffers, which would mean at least some part of it would revert back into benefits for the citizens of the imperialist country. In actuality, the ill-gotten gains of imperialist ventures go straight into swine pockets. Lack of imperialist wars of aggression won't mean less revenue to th government. Just the opposite. Peace dividends would immediately free up immense resources for a welfare State, while subjeting fewer 3rd world peasants to daily droning.

I have no illusions that Sanders will end imperialism and make anime real, but adopting a welfare State is, by far, the best way to scale down the imperialist war machine, which would be better for literally everyone but war profiteers.

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All western countries are imperialist because they and their interests are upheld by US hegemony (because they generally align with US interests.) Of course that has started to change as America continues its terminal decline.

Bernie isn't in the pockets of the Saudis. Trump is, which is why he supports the Saudi war in Yemen and regime change in Iran.
Yemen war wouldn't have happened under Bernie's directive and neither would the coming war with Iran.

Their arms sales, on the other hand…

He is though.

The weird thing is that libertarians and leftists used to get along. Rothbard had a left wing phase, and seeded a lot of mutualist / market leftist movements that are still around today.

Neither Nazi Germany or Fascist Italy can be understood as social democratic welfare states, the introduction of a more paternalistic capitalism in those countries is ultimately a result of their tranference of colonial logic to Europe.

As for Cold War USA thats a totally baseless assertion, the US under Reagan saw the reversal of the post-war social democracy and no such reversal in US imperialism. In fact Reaganomics became the Washington Consensus which, following the end of the cold war, became the new imperialist logic of the western powers.

The joke is that the imperialism isn’t done for Americans, if the war was actually for oil and land and a real empire, to make America the best place to live, then at least you can say yeah fuck it, wrong but the dead bodies were worth it. We have dead bodies for the benefit of the Saudi’s, Israel, the Fed and Chinas benefit. No wonder Trump resonated with that pitch

Does he realize Trump has ramped up U.S. foreign adventurism abroad? American drones are dropping more bombs on Yemen, Somalia…

Operation Eagle Claw. The Carter administration (specifically Zbigniew Brzezinski as national security adviser) retooled American nuclear warfare policy to a "limited" nuclear war doctrine, which was very dangerous because it argued the U.S. could essentially wage and win such a war.

Generally empires only directly benefit the bourg. However their largess can be spread around if material conditions are right (see post-war America.)

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