WSWS

If you're talking about their criticism of #MeToo, it's well deserved. See

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I think that sexual assault claims are pretty serious and can ruin someones life if the accuser is lying. But I don't think we should completely write them off. And defending Roman Polanski is not going to help anyone and it's an injustice to the victim. We should make a commitment to keeping people in check to avoid it being a problem.

opednews.com/articles/David-North-Is-David-W-Gr-by-Michael-Morrissey-David-North_Socialism-180209-959.html

Proof here (not OP) - tl;dr, the leader of the SEP/WSWS, David North, was the sole proprietor of Grand River Printing and Imaging, a $25 million dollar capitalist enterprise. The business was sold in 2013, but that still makes North a multi-millionaire capitalist. It can only be inferred then that North took the profits stolen from GRPI's workers to fund the SEP/WSWS, such as paying its full time journalist staff. The reason why all resolutions in the SEP are passed "unanimously" then becomes obvious: because North writes the paychecks, he also writes the party line.

As for the WSWS, stay away from anything relating to idpol (their "MeToo" coverage boils down to defending any rich actor, Cosby, Spacey, etc. from sexual assault accusations) and anything relating to workplace struggles / unions (claims all unions, even in the third world, are agents of the bosses. Literally praised the Janus vs ACSME decision, and urges workers to vote "no" on NLRB elections). Their geopolitical articles are decent, you can get a relatively propaganda free take on current world events, even if their analysis of imperialism is a bit lacking in the broad scale. Also,keep an eye out for anything written by David Walsh, the WSWS "arts critic", it is unintentional comedic gold.

If you want to hear more, this site from a former member has a decade worth of criticism of the SEP/WSWS. forum.permanent-revolution.org/2018/06/the-gutter-politics-of-david-north.html

They also defend Weinstein as well. I assume it's just some boomer thing honestly. Their editors are fucking ancient from what I've seen.

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The best Trots I'm aware of

Hold it. So the SEP are the *sexists* and the Sparts are the pedos?
Honestly all of the US origin trots have had a serious commitment to intellectual work. Consider J-F in the same light. And as microscopic sects not based in praxis have gone off the rails around cult issues like sex.

I'm not saying that. I'm saying that it shouldn't be discounted that shit that rides on Pure Moralism such as #MeToo are used as a means of attacking progressive's nature.

John Conyers, Congressional critic of the Nazi Azov Battalion, one of the founders of the Congressional Black Caucus, and senior member of the House Judiciary Committee, the guy who staffed Rosa Parks, was attacked by it and resigned because of it.

Also I know that he's not a Leftist, but come on. It's fucking Burgerland.

Why would'nt he just stay in his position then.

If it's true, and it might very well be, it makes North no different from Engels.

I think I remember you from one of the other WSWS threads, and this isn't true from the article. Anyone can read the article and decide, though:
wsws.org/en/articles/2018/06/28/janu-j28.html
There's no "praise" for the decision anywhere I can tell. They just don't believe it's a defeat for workers.

They've defended anyone accused of allegations without proof who appears in the news, including Assange. Their articles about Cosby were relatively neutral toward whether the accusations were true but hostile toward the coverage treating them as already true without a trial; Spacey, similarly.

Almost all of the articles are about unions in the West, mainly the US. They support strikes and concrete action, but they don't support union-negotiated agreements at the expense of workers and to the benefit of bosses and the union bureaucracy.

How should one pronounce wsws? Double double-u ess, or double-u ess double-u ess?

Weird Sex Web Site

double-u ess doubled

Read the opednews article, it's pretty definitive proof. It is also corroborated by Alex Steiner, who was a personal friend of North's for decades (he typically stays away from mentioning North's class background, but just had to call out the hypocrisy when North accused him of being compromised by a "middle class lifestyle"). As for the Engels comparison, Engels' authority came from his rhetoric, not his capital. If North is indeed signing the paychecks of the WSWS staff, as the "unanimous" votes seem to indicate, any democratic deliberations in the organization are a facade for the real deciding power, its donor.

They claim the decision overturned a labor law that workers had "absolutely no interest in". Hit me with more semantics if you like, but I think we can at least agree that they "support" the Janus decision.

It goes further than that. They make it clear they admire the work of the actors accused, and maliciously slander their accusers as part of an "aggressive drive by a layer of affluent women in Hollywood for more privileges and power", who are "upper middle class moralists of the New York Times and Guardian variety," and have "no difficulty with mass killings and devastation in Libya, Syria, Yemen and elsewhere". Due to this strawman class background, no accusation of sexual assault against these multi-millionaires could possibly be credible. wsws.org/en/articles/2018/05/07/pola-m07.html

The Sri Lankan branch of the party continues to denounce all real organizing efforts in its country.

They support strikes and concrete action as long as they are led by the SEP. Otherwise, seemingly any industrial action short of a worldwide general strike is denounced. Criticizing the union bureaucracy is fine, but the bosses are the ones that benefit when the WSWS claims that mainstream unions have zero benefits and only steal dues, or openly urge workers to vote "no" in representation elections. Their position on trade unions is completely counter to what Lenin and Trotsky actually said. North acknowledges this and claims the unions had a qualitative change after the 1981 PATCO strike (I have yet to find a theoretical document explaining this, maybe its in one of his overpriced books), but I think they more important date is when North bought/inherited his $25 million dollar printing business.

We can't say either way with North; you're confusing your own speculation with reality. We could equally speculate that Engels's authority was to some extent due to his capital, but that gets us nowhere in actually evaluating what either says.

No, we can't; the article treats the decision in itself ambivalently. At best, we can say they don't think it matters as far as workers are concerned.

Do you think the description of those papers is actually inaccurate? They're commenting concretely on the papers rather than speculatively:

The accusations could be credible legally, but the accusations are only rarely being tested under the standard of legal credibility but rather being aired in newspapers and magazines, as if already credible by virtue of the accusation itself.

The class background functions as an explanation as to why this is happening and why newspapers are promulgating the accusations; whether an accusation is true or not doesn't matter insofar as determining why the accusation is being treated as if it's already true by the media. For that, with the truth indeterminable, analyzing the social context of both the media and accusers becomes necessary.

I don't know enough about Sri Lankan unions to comment as to whether this is the correct position or not. I'm not so sure you do either.

This isn't true. They're supporting the Yellow Vests, for example, and, unless you have your own personal conspiracy theory, there's no evidence they're leading them in any fashion.

Except there isn't any proof aside from baseless internet hearsay now lost to the ravages of time.

woos woos

The attempts at character assasination should tell you that the wsws is legit. They are pretty much correct in their analysis of current events and their emphasis on the corruption of labor unions

Better than Jacobin.

as long as she looks like left when getting into bed doesn't matter if I wake up next to right

Savage! Anyway, if some prole dick's gonna turn her away from her reactionary ways, that would:
1) be good in itself
2) make it worth waking up next to the unkempt, unattractive version of her

Getting back on topic, always remember that we are talking 'bout trots. And trots gonna trot. Btw, the stuff linked by on that permanent revolution forum is trotism (lol!) at its finest: pedantic, pernicketty, anally retentive beyond redemption. And on top of that, it also has an idpolesque flavour. I stopped reading halfway through it because it was giving me a fucking headache.
That said, while I agree with the critique of the so called MeToo movement as a potential tool to destroy what little remains of the presumption of innocence in many judicial systems (it basically works more as a witch hunt than as a legitimate forum to express grievances), jumping to an unsolicited defence of certain individuals who are clearly at fault in certain cases is a faux pas to say the least.

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opednews.com/articles/David-North-Is-David-W-Gr-by-Michael-Morrissey-David-North_Socialism-180209-959.html

Read the article. A David W. Green from Michigan is listed as owner of the $25 million dollar Grand River Printing company. The alumni magazine for Trinity University, where David North reportedly attended, shows David W. Green as having written A Quarter Century of War, etc, "under the pen name David North". All this is also corroborated by his former comrades. How much more proof do you need.

Despite being weird ultra-sectarian trots they offer the best news coverage and analysis from a Marxist perspective.

For some reason they keep defending literally every celebrity who gets accused of raping people which is fucking bizzare. Also they're trots so there's basically a 90% chance whoever runs their website is also a rapist

It isn't that bizarre, except in the current febrile atmosphere of accusation and counter-accusation, with little to no evidence and rarely any sort of trial to determine whether the accusations at least stand up to questioning. If an accusation is always to be believed, any organization can be tarred or destroyed by someone acting in bad faith.

Thus demonstrating the point.

Honestly confused, you guys this her "unkept" version is unattractive? She still looks attractive.

Orthodox Trotskyism
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Equality_Party_(United_States)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Committee_of_the_Fourth_International

She looks like la creatura

Who are they? Non-american here so Google give me nothing.

The SEP needed to run a company so that the organization could survive especially in the crisis of the 90's with the fall of the USSR and the demoralization of the socialist movement. The income is also vastly inflated and the source is a person who broke with the SEP because they didn't believe in abortion and thought it to be a capitalist trap. All the books sold are marxist and helped further class consciousness. This critique is like that of the capitalists making fun of marxists for buying goods and services.

They dont defend rapists, they defend the right to a fair trial and a just examiniation of evidence. They do this because they know that the capitalists use menial cases like these which seem harmless to erode civil liberties and impose authoritarian states.

This. I would also like to add that the "ultra-secterianism" is due to the Pabloite tendencies which betrayed trotskyism and supported reformist movement in the USSR rather than a revolution to overthrow the bourgeoise through the proletariat as Trotsky had originially proposed. Furthermore, there was CIA and GPU infiltration which neccessitated a split. Trotskyists believe in ideological purity because without it the party has no direction and no concrete analysis of the capitalist crisis.

The SEP has produced comprehensive analysis and has stuck to its ideals throughout. It is the most serious socialist group and doesn't shy away from controversial topics and hard to swallow facts such as the betrayal of unions because they know that truth is only way to win over the working class and defeat capitalism. I encourage you all to join the SEP and fight for socialism!

*revolution to overthrow the bureaucracy

Gib example.

David Walsh has some fantastic articles. You should give this a read as it shows the impact that the Russian Revolution had on modern art.

wsws.org/en/articles/2018/02/28/talk-f28.html

So if you're an SEP member, can you explain to me why North thinks trade unions worldwide "betrayed" the working class after the 1981 PATCO strike and must now be actively sabotaged? I have yet to find any concrete theoretical explanation for this anywhere on the website.

I've tried to contact the french SEP but they never answered to me. I know they are more active in anglos countries.
Hopefully the french wsws is very active though.

Not him but :
wsws.org/en/articles/1998/01/unio-j10.html

Have you tried contacting the French SEP through this form?
wsws.org/en/special/sepjoin.html

We are actively trying to grow the French SEP, especially in light of recent events. There may be technical issues with the site so I suggest you email the British SEP at: [email protected] and they will point you towards the right direction.

Thank you for posting the link. On top of the theoretical explanation given by North, we also have a five part essay explaining exactly what our position was with the PATCO strike.
wsws.org/en/articles/2011/08/pat1-a03.html

I've tried with this link :
wsws.org/fr/special/contact.html

Thanks, I will try this maybe.

yeah this is the main thing

Engles also owned a business, this doesn’t mean he wasn’t a Comrade.

None of North’s action’s or word’s makes it seem like he is compromised by Capital.

They support most strikes, almost every time they cover a strike they support it. They just also (correctly) denounce Union contracts that sellout to Porky. Also the WSWS and the International Committee of the Fourth International supports Yellow Vests.

His stance on trade unions does. The WSWS is doing porky's work for him when it actively urges workers to vote "no" in NLRB elections. It's fine to attack the union bureaucracy from the left, but the WSWS seems to deny that mainstream union membership has any benefit at all, which is just flagrantly untrue. Obviously I have no proof but it's easy to speculate that this position came about as North fought against unionization efforts by his workers in order to protect his profits.

OK, maybe I worded it wrong. The SEP supports strikes while they are happening, but I have never once seen them celebrate their outcome - every single time, they are "betrayed" by the union bureaucracy, because the strike allegedly showed signs of "going international" or something along those lines and the union bureaucrats had to call the strike off to appease their capitalist masters (why call the strike to begin with then?) No benefit could ever have come from the existing union, it must be broken up to make room for the ill-explained rank and file committees. At this point I would not be surprised if they organized campaigns to decertify a union with the NLRB.

Thanks, this looks like the kind of document I was looking for.

Sounds like a program for infantile armchairists.

I’ve never seen an article by them saying this. What I have seen is them urging workers to vote no on Union contracts with the business because they cut wages.

Because the worker’s oftentimes don’t get all of their demands.

No it's actually very bizzare that they defended people who like, aren't even in sort of a gray area or possibly innocent or something. Just straight up going 'well he might be a violent rapist, but me too has gone too far' is literally the worst possible take and the Weird Sex Web Site is weird for it

youtu.be/hPbO9W8JQ8g

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The only time I can think of that they've defended anyone guilty of a sex crime after conviction is Polanski, and that case has nothing to do with "Me Too" or even his being guilty.

Also:
All that's missing is "yikes." Fuck off back to r/socialism or whatever red lib shithole you crawled out of.

We write the most read socialist online publication out there and have helped spread socialist consciousness throughout the world. We are the only socialist group actively defending Julian Assange from persecution and we regularly go out and meet workers to help them organize in rank and file committees(Soviets). On top of this we are rapidly growing our youth groups in campuses worldwide. The members of the SEP are militant and are required to diligently keep up with current events and have advanced knowledge of Marxist theory. The SEP is the exact opposite of "infantile armchairists".

How many members has the SEP? I can't find any information about this.

I don't like the SEP, because you denounce always every communist party or leftist movement which doesn't follow your special snowflake brand of marxism. There is this abhorrent cult around your leader, David North.
If you would be at least a mass organisation, I could take your criticism more serious. But the SEP is totally alienated from the working class. You are doing lectures in academic circles and dump texts in cyberspace. You are overestimating yourself. The internet makes you look bigger than you actually are.
This is what I've meant with "infantile armchairist".

My dude, union leadership today are collaborators with the capitalist class. Who doesn't realize that?

Trotsky was basically Stalin except bad at politics.

no, he was a closet liberal

No, his politics lined up with Stalin pretty closely.

Yes, but incompetent and ended up living in Mexico where he complained a lot. Total loser.

I'm not him, but this is a stupid critique. I remember when "armchairist" meant that you actually did nothing, like someone who whines on an imageboard about how mean the SEP are, rather than attempting to organize the working class and publishing a newspaper, even if you disagree with how they're going about both.

wsws.org/en/articles/2014/02/11/volk-f11.html

This has been true for over a century. It does not mean that radicals should then refuse to work within them. Lenin even advocated working within trade unions dominated by the Black Hundreds: marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/lwc/ch06.htm What's at stake here is no laughing matter. It has been argued the trade union question was the reason why the Russian Revolution succeeded and the German Revolution failed - hence the reason why we are still living under capitalism today. marxists.org/archive/draper/1970/tus/4-dualunion.htm

The WSWS "rank and file committee" dual unionism plan would be a harmless ultra-left sideshow, but by openly fighting against union representation drives and supporting what is effectively a right-to-work law (Janus), they are actually harming the cause of the working class. Then they have the gall to claim that this is justified, because it was in fact the unions that changed following the 1981 PATCO strike, not the ongoing neoliberal assault on workers rights. Pic related.

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They were denouncing the UAW. The Union that did jack shit when 15,000 Auto workers were layed off two weeks ago. Workers should reject the UAW and push for amore militant Union.

The point is that even the shittiest unions are still better than letting porky fuck you without a condom. This doesn't need to be stated if you've actually worked in a union and non-union shop and seen the difference, but look at Bureau of Labor Statistics data - the benefits are undeniable.

I'm not a rad lib lmfao. It's a reddit meme to talk that way because they're emulating the way I grew up talking, jackass