How can you have a good grasp on Marxist philosophy if you haven't studied Kant, Fichte, Hegel and Feuerbach?

My favourite tbh.

But I have. It doesn't help that much unless you're gonna become an academic.

How are they reactionary?

...

Obviously yeah. And you need stoicians, epicureans, pythagoricians etc. to even get a chance to figure it out. But does it feel glorious to actually have a firm grasp on history of philosophy.

Platypus is pro-zionist.

Philosophy - perhaps not. But you can fully understand politeconomic theory.

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Science is philosophy you dummy.

Science is gay, read Neechah

...

Can you explain? I've been attending the study groups and so far it seems like orthodox Marxism and Leninism (not M-L). They're anti-Stalinism and have a Trostkyite bent. I get frustrated when the Platypus members seem to be against any movement that isn't specifically a Marxist movement by every single metric. Also, Platypus was described to me as a 'critical point of view', meaning they do not suggest what should be done but critically look at things.

you answered your own question

i'm going to beat you

The part of Marxism that aims to describe and predict economic phenomena like the tendency of rate of profit to fall is definitely scientific. It i a social science.

easily

Just read the first few fucking pages of German Ideology

Fuck reading I just want to live my life self-reliant and it doesn't take a book to know what is preventing me from doing so.

I agree on Kant but nobody needs to study Hegel…

...

It literally does.

Open your eyes and just look at the world.

See you on Zig Forums

Literally just Cynicism for rich people who didn't wanna give up their luxuries.

How can you understand Hegel without understanding Fichte? The list needs Schelling.

Correction: Everyone needs to study Hegel.

they do, they're just too overworked and reliant on income to do anything about it
people like you are the reason Zig Forums laugh at us, it's clear you've never met anyone outside your bubble, because talking to most working class people would highlight how they know they're being fucked. go out and talk to actual working class people ffs, stop embarrassing us

This.
They think they must teach workers instead of learning from them.

Does my perspective as a worker not matter then? Where is this working class so that I may drink from the teat of its bosom of knowledge? The fact that you keep referring to 'workers' in the 3rd person shows that you consider yourselves separate from the working class, and then have the audacity to accuse me of being out-of-touch with 'workers'.

ACTUAL working class people? Are they the ones who pour me my champagne or the ones who clean my shoes? They can speak…I think, but I'm rarely bored enough to listen.

I talk to ACTUAL working class people on a daily basis. Tomorrow I will go to work in a warehouse alongside ACTUAL working class people. But yeah, go ahead and call me a deaf bourgie because I dare to suggest people read books.

You think the 'working class' is this dumb, racist, uneducated, mass of people that hates anything even remotely 'intellectual', like reading books. That is the bourgeois idea of the working class, the idea that capitalism perpetuates, one that you seem to have internalised.

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mate i'm not the one who thinks workers need to read old-ass philosophy to know they're being ripped off every day
i used the term working class people because i'm talking about working class people that aren't myself. if you've got a better wasy to address a specific group without identifying them i'm all ears
is drivel, and just putting words in my moouth
didn't say that, i said they don't NEED to read philosophy to know who is fucking them, but thanks for projecting lmao
and do those people know how they're being fucked over? have they read the philosophers mentioned in this thread?

to add on to this, lets even take a modern example. how many of the people participating in the current protests in france do you think have read all these philosophers? yet they know when they're being exploited over big corporations.
i'm not french so i'm using "they"

Let's think in more practical terms: what is the bare minimum amount of education required for a person to develop class conciousness? Wage, Labour, and Capital; Value, Price, and Profit; Critique of the Gotha Programme. Those are my suggestions anyway. The important thing is to get as many people anti-capitalism as possible, you can do this by making the theory accessible.

Oh man this has been a misunderstanding. I was replying to this user:

with

When he said 'book' I thought he meant books in general, not 'old-ass philosophers' in particular. Now if you think that old philosophers aren't necessary to read to understand Marxism, but think that people should read books, we're in agreement, we don't need to read those authors in particular to get a grasp on Marxism.

This was the answer I typed up first before realising the misunderstanding.
Where have I said that they need to read old-ass philosophy? New philosophy is pretty good, too. Philosophy is being written as we speak. Zizek comes to mind. No, I'm not saying you should read Zizek, I'm just giving him as an example of a contemporary leftist philosopher. There are many others. Also, philosophy is not the only thing one can read, there is fiction, non-fiction, leftist authors like Orwell or LeGuin…

People should read, and I stand by it. Reading develops critical thought, otherwise people will believe the first person who offers a solution that 'sounds right', something like "A cabal of all-powerful Jews rules the world. Look! Jews all over TV!"

No, they actually don't. I was speaking to one guy (because during the break I don't idly look at my phone and eat, but try to radicalise co-workers) and he said that he and I weren't really working class because "we have spending money". To him, the fact that after paying for rent, utilities and food you had money left over meant that you weren't working class. This isn't because he didn't read old philosophers, this is because he didn't read anything at all.

"Other working class people."

agreed
hard disagree, i'm not interested in telling people how to live their lives
oh, fuck off, it's basically the same thing you anal prick

We shouldn't be complacent in capitalist anti-intellectualism. People read very little these days, and this is the result of a culture capitalism has created for us. Education is a core socialist value. The working class must educate itself in all sorts of things if it wants to take charge of its own destiny.

[citation needed]
i don't care to carry on this conversation, you sound insufferable

these fuckers have literally never achieved anything throughout history other than making fascists win in spain. why could that be hmmm

fucking hell brainlet, give yourself a rest
not reading =/= ignorant. thats condescending. lived experience will ALWAYS be worth more than reading. you can have a revolution with action and no reading, but you can't have a revolution with reading and no action

i didn't say they lost because they didn't know enough. i said anarchists sabotaged them.

this disdain for theory that you have is precisely the reason there has been no genuinely communist movement in the last 70 years. people don't spontaneously come to understand what is entailed by a free society and how to get there, workers "by themselves" only ever fight isolated wage fights and the like. the only potential to overthrow the current social order lies in the proletariat organized as a class pushing for power in the political domain, for power to wrestle the state away from the ruling classes. and this does not simply happen without a sophisticated understanding of what's at stake. a wageslave being rightly resentful of his boss, or even a small local union fighting for wages, has in itself nothing to do with communism at all. and this is no better evidence by the place that these struggles occupy in the current, not revolutionary at all, time.

Marxism is throwing bricks at pigs.

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Neither am I. But reading has many benefits, not just for a person as a leftist. Reading stimulates your brain, improves your memory, increases your vocabulary (you are confronted with words on a daily basis, whether you like it or not), improves focus and concentration, you gain knowledge (even if it is just another person's point of view) making you intellectually richer while being virtually free.

The only thing worth reading is Mao when he says to not read.

thanks for explaining reading to me dude, i really needed that. do you explain basic concepts like reading to your co-workers too? do you think they don't know the benefits of reading? i bet they're so glad to have you around to explain it to them, definitely not condescending at all
because you're nitpicking my words to twist what im saying, and it was also irrelevant to what we were talking about. the working class will still be the working class regardless of whether i include myself or not. you nitpicked that to make a point
like i said, insufferable.

And how will that lived experience be recorded and transferred to others? Holy shit you're ignorant.
Newspapers?
Stop chainging the topic of the thread, we're talking about having to read philosophy, dumbass

Well, you obviously don't cause you're so anti-reading.

Nah dude, you asked for that when you implied I'm out of touch with the working class because I want people to read.

Look at how you write to others. Be more deliberate in what you write, rather than becoming angry and self-righteous when someone misunderstands what you were trying to say. I'm not your English teacher, I'm not paid to wrack my brain trying to understand your word salad.

And speaking of insufferable:

The user to whom I responded said:

pic related. i'm not anti-reading. just because i don't think it's necessary for people to read philosophy (the entire point of this thread) doesn't mean i'm anti-reading. like i said before, i'm not interested in telling people how they should live their lives
no, i said you were out of touch with people because you replied
to
to which i explained that workers know who's fucking them (which you then went on a rant about my phrasing)
you're a condescending cunt, every word was clear in my post, it was YOU who decided to go on a rant about my phrasing because i called you out for obviously not speaking to working class people. you KNEW i was talking about the working class, but your problem with my post was predicated on my phrasing, NOT my actual argument, which you understood. it's not my fault you were so quick to try and deflect about being out of touch

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The left needs to start stressing personal ethics and discipline. Reading books is a concrete step people can take towards their self-liberation. By understanding how the world functions, they begin to understand how to change it.
Even better is when they can engage in a well-informed mass movement. Then you can drop reading for yourself depend on people you trust. But this requires a proletarian culture of learning and critical analysis. Otherwise we'll never get there.

Do they? Then why do some hold anti-semitic beliefs and think it is the Jews?Or why are some workers friends with their bosses or owners of the company? There's a lack of class consciousness and understanding of the capitalist system. The problem is that people aren't actually aware of what's going on.

Sure, I'll admit I was condescending. A moment of weakness, I'm not a sage. You referred to the working class in the third person after saying that I should go speak 'them' because I think workers should should read. I think everyone should read! You're the one who is projecting a negative stereotype onto the whole working class.

At which point did I rant?

After all I've told you you double down on that.

That was only a part of it. You chose which part of my posts to reply to and which to ignore. You steer this conversation as much as I do, don't accuse me for the way it's going.

I deflected and moved on. We had an actual disagreement over whether people should read or not but you weren't interested in that. In your mind that is settled, you're right and I'm wrong. You're just using the out of touch thing to continue on this egotistical pursuit of insulting others. Is that fun for you? I might be condescending at times, but you let it bother you and I'm not allowing your poisonous words to bother me. Calling people a cunt doesn't make you look strong, it makes you look weak. Further proved by your post in which you whine about me being condescending. Grow up. Or better yet, do some reading so you don't feel like you're being condescended to when people speak in complete sentences to you. Your collection of PDFs doesn't impress me, you could have read every book in the world, you still come off as being against reading. I'm not the only one in this thread who got that impression from you.

Marxism is both a social-economic science and a philosophy.

lul
You should be thankful your life trajectory led you to be able to think "oh maybe ill read a book today". Some people live in such intellectually bankrupt places they can go through their whole lives without reading a single book. Hoarding that priviledge for yourself is probably the most damage you can do around you.

Read cockshott faggot