Vietnam

apologies, he is Lao though and fled the communist regime. So whatever communist regime was in Laos at the time.

8ch.net/vietnam/catalog.html

interesting, thanks OP!

Its a wise move to turn to state capitalism in the current age where planned economy has been proved to lead to mass starvation and poverty. But i personally would like to see worker owned cooperatives as the basis of this economy and large industries in public control.

This is idpol but why is this an issue?

kys ancrap

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WHAT THE FUCK. How did this go completely under the radar on Zig Forums?

I didn't know Richard Wolff posted here

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It might come as a surprise to you but marxism is not the only form of leftism. Worker owned cooperatives is the next best thing from your utopian economics.

Cooperatives are good, but cooperatives can exist alongside a plan, where they produce according to plan but they decide the internal issues democratically.

No problem if you're interested in anything else while I'm Vietnam I'd be happy to talk about them. I'm here for 2 more weeks. I'm going to Hanoi tomorrow which is supposedly better so we'll see

You gorm, how is this idpol?!

No one should be forced to sell their body comrade. Do you really think that most women who are prostitutes are enjoying their line of work."Hey… You could starve to death… or… sell your self…"

Isn't the monetary compensation towards a women a form of coercion? She will either starve or be forced to have sex with you. Not to be ID pol or some sort of femnazi but prostitution is in a sense a form of rape and should not be supported.

Maybe under full communism/socialism there will be women who genuinely enjoy having sex as labor but under our current system sex work is not beneficial for women and shouldn't be supported.

retard

Wow, it turns out /vietnam/ is real racist..

USA could easily have won in Vietnam but China and USSR interfered. If it was an existential war Vietnam would have lost, especially now in the age of drones and nukes. Then again, drones don't really help the UK against the IRA or Israel against Hezbollah, and a lot of other countries pissed off at the US would intervene if they had a civil war. More North Viets died than Americans did, and there's more Americans than Americans… hard to say. Likely a stalemate however worst case scenario the president nukes everything and retreats, however not to much.

Ya seriously I wouldn't trust them tbh. It doesn't seem as though the Vietnamese population is very hip to the internet although that could change very soon since I see a lot of them using cellphones for business. "Grab" an app is EXTREMELY popular here for many many things. It's similar to wechat in China. I would imagine vietnamese voices prole voices will slowly increase.

I like to think that the will of the people is what allowed Viet to win.

Eh, i'm not going to completely discount them over at /vietnam/ as that being at least some semblance of popular opinion in Vietnam, personally. Thailand is generally very racist so i wouldn't be to surprised and not just the monarchists, etc.

forcing people to sell their bodies to survive is not very socialist, user.

No but their body their rules

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Why did he flee them? What did they do?

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I wish we could install some filter that automatically banned everyone still bringing up this fictitious non-issue invented by Zig Forums

Do Russians find stuff like this cringy? Taking western memes and translating 1 for 1 into Russian

I don't see why they would, unless it's something blatantly offensive. Lots of Russian memes are like American memes, with Impact and everything.

Absolutely fucking nazbol

I would like to see classical slave lords take you as a slave and feed you their scraps. Functionally you won't starve and it would be greater than planned economy as everything will be planned by le rational actors in a market economy.
just a long way of saying, you don't know anything about economics or society

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Well this is my first year studying economics in university so no im not an expert on this issue yet. But no serious economist thinks planned economy is a realistic option and this is why greater minds than you me or anyone else on this marginal board have decided that China and Vietnam need market economy or they will wither away like Cuba does. But yes tell me more about slavery where slave lords decide your rations according to the great plan.

Is this where you decide that the serious economists are conveniently the ones that you agree with?

fugg :DD

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There are so many to pick when overwhelming majority of economists think that planned economy is a bad joke. Maybe in some distant future with scifi technology you can produce for everyone according to their needs when the needs of consumers are endless. Or everyone according by their ability can produce this amount of commodities for the consumers without any incentive because there is no state or the threat of starvation/poverty forcing you to participate in the economy.

Japan has none and its one of the most richest countries on earth.

Why are you here, user?

This is not the case. They choose between low wage factory/farming work or prostitution and they choose the latter free willingly because easy money.

t. never been to asia

Why not? This is not /marxist-leninist-pol/ but leftypol.

Because all you are doing is throwing bait. I severely doubt you are actually fucktarded enough to believe this nonsense. Unless…. Are you an american, user?

Japan literally gets dumped money by the US and other governments and doesn't need to maintain its own military. The point about it not having critical natural resources is also the reason why it doesn't have to deal with what other resource rich countries do, that is other powers having an economic interest in acquiring those resources by whatever means they can. Japan is a resource light island surrounded by resource heavy landmasses that can that it can acquire resources from, and that coupled with it not having to deal with any real threats given its protection by the US grants it the perfect conditions for an economic trading hub for other countries to set up markets in and move money through.

AHAHAHAHAHA OH NO NO NO

What is imperialism: the post

for some definitive counter-examples look into countries such as "The USSR", "Cuba", "Yugoslavia", "DDR", etc.

You can fuck the maids in Akihabara? They just led me into a maid cafe that was the most awkward thing in the world with overpriced shit food. They hide their faces from cameras though.

Brainlet post but it didn’t deserve a ban.

Gotta cough up some money if you want a photo gaijin.

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the poster has made several questionable posts before about the "failure of marxism" including this one, and anyone who is dumb enough to post about muh gommunist starvation needs to lurk more before posting.

Any promotion of capitalist China and Vietnam should be a bannable offense.

I can't remember at the moment I could talk to him in 2 weeks when I get back if you're interested. I just know he was born in an internment camp and tells me how it was extremely bad. I wouldn't want to message him about it because obviously it's very personal.

market economies are unsustainable. they work when there's no scarcity, but beyond that it will just devolve into oligopolies and totalitarianism. see TRPF

Like i said this isnt /marxistpol/ but Zig Forums. There should be room for other leftist ideas/ideologies like anarchism, market socialism, not giving a shit about american military support for Ro.javan revolution, etc.

This is just full retard.
Youre right that free markets lead to monopolies and thats why goverments regulate markets to prevent this.

You can give full support for capitalist Russia and its imperialism in its puppet states but not support PRC?

there is virtually zero pro-Russia sentiment on leftypol, aside from the occasional nostalgia for the former USSR.

woops I meant to say they work when there's scarcity.
but like I said, after the supply satisfies the demand, corporations won't be able to expand anymore and have to resort to things like artificially raising the prices and underpaying workers in order to sustain themselves
this is slowly becoming undone as corporations continually buy out the government to free themselves. the notion that the government has the ability to regulate the markets effectively (or even want to) is Utopian, otherwise they'd be listening to the Post-keynesians instead of Monetarists.

I like your second point about whether or not a government can regulate market is superfluous. No matter how much regulation occurs the market/econ will still be fucked. I guess a good question to pose to libs would be "Do you think the government can regulate the market to stabilize the economy?" and which would then t hey would naturally say yes and one would point to/ask why the markets haven't stabilized themselves if government regulation is key.

Although I suppose they would just say it's because laiz faire economists throwing a wrench in the works and the constant swinging of the political pendulum.

Post-scarcity society where all demand is satisfied is yet another scifi concept. Maybe in the distant future when we have unlimited supply of energy and raw materials.

America is good example of this kind of corruption but this will just lead to capitalism with monopolies and nothing else if the left cant give any realistic alternatives like the current situation is.

I think you're both making valid points but I would appreciate it if this thread could just be focused on Vietnam. I looked at the Vietnam board and it doesn't seem like they would be very appreciative of communist discussion.

no it's the here and now. we literally have enough resources for every man woman and child to sustain themselves until death.

I agree with this, but this is because so much of the left is in disarray then actual lack of theoretical speculation. Writers like Cockshott offer good ideas of how the future should be precisely economically organized.

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Yes we can provide basic necessities for everyone but not much else. Even western standards of living are impossible to provide let alone all demand fulfilled.

I will stop derailing now.

That's because socialism = more freedom. The Vietnamese government hiked massive taxes on cars and gave everyone cheap mopeds so they could disobey traffic laws and never have to stop at an intersection, thus eliminating gridlock. This was their solution to their inability to pay for subway trains, etc.

imagine my shock

OP, would you ever consider living in Vietnam? I fucking hate the USA and everything I read about Vietnam makes it sound friendlier, better future, better food/culture, etc.

People being brainlets should not be bannable unless they are acting in bad faith by baiting and rusing

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nobody likes ore will ever accept an expat, from any culture, anywhere

just don't be an asshole or a sex tourist.

I think Vietnam is a nice country but I don't know if I would personally move and live in it. Since you're an American I would just reccomend you save up a lot of money and just move to cuba. Your quality of life would probably better there.

If you really love Vietnamese/Asian food and culture then I would just suggest living here for a month or 2 and feeling it out. I can't see myself growing old in a city because of the the chaos of the city. China seems like a much better alternative tbh.

This is what I believe to be the root of the hatred for expats. You will see hundreds of old men sitting in chairs on the main streets of HCMC. Just don't do that and interact with locals in a genuine capacity and you will most likely be treated fairly well. Although you still won't be vietnamese. I tried to see a cock fight and wasn't allowed because I am still a foreigner. Even taking pictures of certain things like the smoked dogs you won't be allowed to do.

Tbh it isn't a terrible solution and it's not like all other SE asian countries don't have the same problem. Although Thailand was able to get a subway system.

I will say that they do have a ton of traffic deaths so yes in that respect not good but the city moves on.

Yeah, they do have about twice the traffic death rate of countries like the USA, but on the other hand, this isn't just the result of the organized chaos of their commute system. Part of it is that mopeds are just less safe for their driver than cars, and part of it is also the fact that you can drink and bike and nobody will stop you. If they organized their traffic just a teensy bit more, put a bunch of footbridges everywhere, expanded sidewalks and no-car zones, and added more trains, the death rate would go down. Lane splitting, lane sharing, free-for-all intersections, and things like that are fantastic and can actually increase driver awareness and thus safety in many cases.

I've been thinking about that too, but Vietnam has really fucking fast internet and access to latest tech, while Cuba doesn't…

This is clearly understandable as hordes of Western goons flock to those attractions to try and expose the "barbarism" of Asians/Communists/boogeyman of the day.

Not really, I checked the board recently and there’s only a dozen real Vietnamese anons there (the rest are Amerimutts LARPing as Vietnamese, actual Amerimutts, anons on vacation in Viet Nam and one Hungarian dude for some odd reason).

The board was made by some well-off Zoomer from Hà Nội and the guy pulled a bunch of people from Facebook here with him.

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As is Explained by the Party Line of the CPV's platform the Vietnamese path towards socialism / Communism can be Broken down into four steps

(Vietnam War) (Vietnam is here now)
National Liberation from Imperialist powers > National Democratic Revolution / State-Capitalism > Socialist economy > Higher Stage Communism

As long as Vietnam sticks to this theory and does not abandon Marxism i see no contradiction it being called a socialist republic / Marxist state

Got to give your prof credit for really making u think.

Id say fake
we had like one Vietnamese guy i remember even here ever and he was a Gusano "Brave USA was protecting Vietnamese people love you USA" Zig Forumsyp

Co-ops are peak utopianism though, since you're expecting this to be a stable state and not rapidly degenerate into normal capitalism (which will happen)

wow who would've thought
Cuba has a higher GDP per capita than Haiti, Jamaica and the Dominican Republic (countries you can actually make realistic comparisons with)
lie harder, dumbass

This is why the whole ideology behind voluntaryism and choices promoted by neoclassical economics is complete bunk and just serves to dress up coercive arrangements as free and voluntary. A society that provides good and plentiful access to education and work does not have prostitution.

based

When faggot ANTIFA start up co-ops, there will be based Partisans lying in wait ready to snipe you from a distance, then use the lot of you for fertilizer. Murder all leftists.

M’dude, if you watch any Vietnamese news network you will see the Party proudly proclaims that our country is “free market economy with socialistic characteristics”. The revisionism after “Đổi mới” and the corruption through neoliberal policies that followed were fucking astounding to say the least.
Nowadays the inequality is getting worse and worse, more and more state owned industries and infrastructure are being privatized while “lifting yourself up by the bootstrap” has became the main way of thought for most people. Vietnam, while being much better than most SE countries in standard of living, is still pretty crap compared to Cuba in socialist policies.

Alright so I've arrived in Hanoi and my god the traffic is wayyyy better. I have to say HCMC seems like it def could easily fix its traffic situation since Hanoi is based af.

Alright so I've arrived in Hanoi and It seems like there is a very clear divide between the south and north similar to the US.

It makes sense considering the american civil war was only like 8 years and completely changed the the way the US is in many many respects.

with the Vietnam war being a 13 something year long conflict it makes sense that the north Vietnamese are much more prosperous. I like Hanoi a lot tbh and I think I could actually live here since the traffic isn't that bad and from what I've read they have more socialist values.

Well I'm gonna do some uni homework today and then pay my respects at the mausoleum tomorrow, go to the red square, take a pic with this statue of Lenin by my airbnb. I dunno what else after that. It's also interesting seeing these people bundled up I feel like a slavic god from siberia wearing just my track pants and a sweatshirt and these people are in full blown winter coats in 55-60 degree weather.

If you guys want a picture or want me to try and locate something I will try my best.

The people are very nice here tbh though I felt like Thai people were a little nicer but that's obviously anecdotal.

can you post some pictures?

I am distraught by how pro-America their government seems to have become.

It’s not the maid cafes, it’s these baths/massage parlors that are called “soapland” that are really just very thinly veiled brothels.

The maid cafes really are just cringy overpriced cafes where the waiters act like anime girls. But, like the Hostess Clubs they are really shitty weeb knockoffs of, they can also be low key brothels for those in the know, but that’s far from common.

In what way have they become pro-American?