How do I be less offensive

I the people in these groups they're pretty cool aside from their ultra sensitivity.

all the time. just as much as I argue with people here.

Maybe you're more nimble than me, I've been interested in leftism for less than a year which also might be a factor.

Don't double down. Admit your mistake and let them know you are trying to do better. I've mostly gotten out of the habit of saying autist, faggot, retard, and other stupid shit in person. If I let it slip and I know I made someone uncomfortable I just apologize. Not a big deal.

yeah I'm too defensive with this shit, I will do that in the future

I'd try to avoid people who were invested in call out culture. Finding better friends would be my recommendation. If it's only "groups," who cares?

Called out for what exactly?

I made some jokes about the thing where incels were reporting sex workers to the IRS and some people got mad and banned me from a group I had been in for a while, kind of sucked and similar things have happened before

this was meant as a response to you

true

Post the jokes

I don't have them anymore

I don't go on Facebook at all but I do hang around socialists IRL. I've said some things that could be a bit dicey but misunderstandings are not the end of the world.

Two bits of advice I heard that are good is (1) don't surround yourself with yourself. The second (2) I'm borrowing from something I heard about people with depression, which is that people with depression who take therapy will go through exercises where they deliberately make mistakes to show that the consequences are not really bad. I think it applies to saying dumb shit because there's a tendency to think getting a bad reaction after saying something inadvertently dumb is like the apocalypse, but it's not so. Anyways I'm kind of rambling but I think this frustration leads some men to go "okay fine fuck it; the ingrates!" and they go whole-hog towards the right.

I wasn't socialized on 4chan but I'm a white dude from Texas who grew up with a lot of bullshit spookery and ideology implanted in my brain, still have it buried in there, and I hang around a lot of Mexican socialists so, yeah, I've said some dumb shit. It takes effort for me to interact with people.

But ultimately, what it comes down to I think is that the left does look after its people even when we've got some warts. It sounds cheesy, but this whole thing is about direct solidarity with people under attack and restructuring the whole economy and society to serve human and social purposes, right? The right does not have that because it's a bunch of grifters and they mostly rant about what they hate. Naturally enough, they all hate and despise each other too and will throw each other under the bus whenever they run into trouble or when the opportunity presents itself. Like Zig Forums has been tearing its hair out over the guilty verdict for the guy who drove that car into those people in Charlottesville. Do you know how many alt-right dudes showed up at the trial to sit as witnesses? Zero. Well, one, briefly and then he left so he could write about it. But they make a big deal about how /theirguy/ got a raw deal but none of them actually give a shit about him as a human being.

Like, you can't fake solidarity. If we don't have that, then we're nothing. The word "intersectionality" gets a bad rap here, but the legit groups are intersectional and they are social communities with a social consciousness, I guess you could say. So that's how I would keep in mind when interacting with the left broadly speaking. I don't think it's even necessarily about having a "progressive" mindset or even liking other people that much, or being liked. More about standing alongside people in a struggle, I guess. Maybe this is dumb I dunno.

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I have also spent 10 years on 4chan and saying "nigger" in real life is not an unsurmontable compulsion. Sounds like you're just retarded.

if you want a relevant strategy for imageboard arguments: when you want to annoy people you disagree with don't try to be offensive. try to sound like you're from tumblr or such. intentionally think "what could i do here to look like an outsider?" and then do that.

you'll get thrice as many (you)s as you would for telling people to drink bleach and hours of entertainment as people who got here 2 years after you did type up walls of edgy text in the expectation it'll shock you back to tumblr or get their epic takedown screencapped for future use.

in all measurements - (you)s, ratio of text you type to text others type, preventing idiots from wasting your time by ensuring they disregard your material point in favour of focusing on proper form, "problematic" is infinitely more powerful than "faggot"

I get how you feel since I've been involved with some queer groups and I had to separate myself from 4chan programming. Developing empathy is a gradual process - try to read more on the issues that seem to provoke you, attempt to see things from the other person's social perspective, and remain civil. It won't happen overnight but you can definitely become a more tolerable person with somd practice.

Similar time period spent on 4channel, I just hide my powerlevel and never bring it up, almost creating other personas for Anonymous me and meatspace me.
Then again, I'm not really joining groups and such yet.

Can you give some examples? Does this usually happen in discussions about leftism/politics or just in casual chats?

Doesn't the left do this constantly, though? People were gloating over Mark Fisher's suicide.

I think there are real political differences, beyond just using "retard" or whatever (which, by , isn't exactly what's happening in every case, anyway). The rejection of people based on inappropriate language is linked to a certain political view of the world, and one that doesn't comport with most of us here. It's not as if most of us can't pretend to follow the same "woke" social rules as most left political groups and hide the differences with our silence, but everything about it feels fraudulent and disgusting, like having a friend who would reject us unless we lie to him constantly about fundamental issues.

I'll say, for my part, it took me a very long time to find any groups on the left that shared similarly critical views of identity. If you're just joining random groups, online or off, you won't find very many communities on the left where you share much fundamentally in common. That's sadly just where things stand in the Anglosphere and much of the European left at this historical juncture.

I also don't really think it's a question of empathy, although it may require learning a kind of language game called "Empathy." If you said that you were empathetic for, say, incels, most left groups you'd find lacking in the same. It's more about affirming having empathy for the correct targets of empathy, and affirming that one cannot understand that person's position truly in some fashion and demonstrating some sort of deference for the correct empathy targets.

Get off the internet, retard. On "leftist" facebook/reddit everything is sacred and nothing is allowed, IRL you can say retard without repercussions in leftist circles.

There is such a thing as a genuine encounter and understanding of the Other, user. It has nothing to do with language.

no*

What I don't get is what do you do for a living? Where you are going around saying "shit's gay" or whatever. I talked that way when I was in high school.

Unless you are all in high school.

I think this happened to me today. I read some local feminist books that are popular and thought id make a twitter because I wanted to ask them some stuff. Primarily "what is a positive male identity role that feminists can help promote" rather than just pointing out all the negatives.

They told me to kill myself. Wtf.

Honestly I feel really hurt.

What were the books?

Nothing academic, but they are pretty big figures in Aus and I really wanted to have a positive conversation as retarded as that sounds

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but that was the reaction amongst others. And I was totally asking "how do I help you battle patriarchal attitutudes.etc"

I feel crap

Aus, the land of Greer. Read her instead.
Twitter is a shitty place full of shitty people user, best of just disregarding it.

Maybe I'm biased because of academia, but if I can clearly picture a competent figure/historian raising his eyebrows because of something I would say, it's probably not the best thing to say atm.

Yeah but these people are like the main feminists in my city. Mentioning Greer is grounds for firing squad almost.

It's not fair. Guys are killing themselves all the time here and I understand patriachy is opressive and sucks but it also effects men.

I try so hard to extend solidarity to them and they just are like "you are inherently evil".

Why is this happening. eugh this has taken a toll on me. I've spent so much time deprograming guys I know away from jordan peterson.etc and I ask them if I can help the just prove that leafy fuckwit right

Oh, the anti-'terf' argument? those kind of feminists?
Liberal/idpol/3rd wave feminists are a cancer, user. srsly. disregard. How do you push men away from patterson, user? some of my idiot friends are starting to like him and all my critiques of him revolve around his fucktarded understanding of post-modernism.

If you want a feminist to watch that is opposed to these super-idpolers then check out my current favourite:
youtube.com/watch?v=uphZ0PLXbEw
youtu.be/bwLU1P94o-c

That is shitty, because that's a good question. Traditional masculinity as such is a dying phenomenon and leads to a host of societal issues and gender confusion. Questioning oneself becomes a widespread experience, but the traditionally conceived binary (rooted as it is in pre-modern material conditions) offers little satisfaction. I believe this is a general crisis of late modernity and I can't say how it will end up.

Peterson's main shtick about mythological narratives being an essential aspect of our moral conditioning etc. is not new or necessarily a right-wing observation. Žižek himself talks a lot about how ideology takes the form of a sort of unconsciously mythologized reasoning, and how we can't escape from it. Personally I like his solution in a christian atheist theology.

youtube.com/watch?v=fu5Dl_A2X0A
Seen this one for the first time. idpols are the fucking worst.

I don't think this matters politically. Politics is not about being empathetic, seeing others as they see themselves and understanding them, but rather understanding them from a certain view that they might even take to be a misunderstanding of themselves.

One can understand the sexual frustration of an incel from his perspective, to use the earlier example, but one cannot stay in that same perspective and prescribe the same solution as the one suggested by it. A political solution is beyond understanding what someone else feels, but understanding why they are actually feeling so, rather than simply expressing what they regard as the core truths of what they feel, both the problem they suppose is a problem and the solution they propose to that.

"Empathy" insofar as it's used in left-wing politics, is performative. It's about expressing empathy in the correct way for the correct targets. If a genuine encounter occurs, it's only tangential to the performative nature of the political "Empathy," in contrast to the actual empathy you may or may not feel. It's a language game.

I don't think "genuine" is a useful category in this either, but I'll leave that be.

As I mentioned, there seem to be larger problems than saying bad words here. Whether sex workers are sympathetic figures or not is also reflective of how one views prostitution, whether it is a problem, what solutions should be used to address it, and so on. It isn't just being offensive, although the views necessarily will offend.

Why do you want to become less offensive, user?
Don't you know that the revolutionary is a doomed man?

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lol about half of feminists are totally intolerable, you flipped the coin and got fucked, maybe don't do that again.

I sympathize with you but this is why you should just reject feminism, ultimately it comes down to the most simple argument: if it's about equality then why is it called "feminism"? Because it isn't.

Good, the only thing Leftbook creates is data for The Zuck.

Those groups are not really leftist. All they have are the signs and the slogans.

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That name is familiar.
reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/3vufvn/sjws_have_started_a_facebook_group_with_more_than/

Post a screenshot or log of the full interaction if you can. Blog about it offsite so it's somewhat permanent and won't cycle out.

Not to go all lobster on you, but how do you expect her to respect you when you come at her like you were a slave? You don't ask someone "how do you wish me to behave", that's something you only ask of a master, not an equal. It's an invitation to have people walk all over you in high heels.

That isn't what he asked though, he asked for features of a positive male role model. If you consider the two to be equivalent it's because you're projecting your own subtext onto the question.

How is it different from asking how to behave? It's not the kind of question one asks out of idle curiosity. You ask for the features of a positive male role model under the understanding that you wish to fit into that mold, or you would not bother asking (let alone going as far as making a new twitter account just for this purpose, and then feeling bad when you are told to fuck off - it has all the hallmarks of something a weak man would do).

A weak person or Zig Forums bait. Either way, it's really not hard to understand why someone would tell 'em to fuck off, tbh.

it really is pathetic how you lot have such a hate boner for women. How you attempt to dress any expression of womens discontent with there place in the world as idpol. Is everyone literally 15 and lives on twitter around here?

Im a pretty anti social person. There is a distinct neuroticism to the leftist personality type that fucking disgusts me. To rephrase a phrase. I like your marx but not your marxists

...

Okay mate..

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you expect too much from posters here
they have no comprehension of what idpol is, wading deep in it themselves while pretending they're not because it's the other side of the same swamp
anti-idpol is pretty much dead, just wait for the replies calling you a redditor or whatever because your anti-idpol stance isn't the same as their reflexive primitive Zig Forums tier opposition to SJW, might as well give it up and not bother with those fags

Depressing. It's sad because there are some very quality posters here but alas it's ruined by idiot perma-vergin psuedo-Zig Forumsyps and shitty mods. Thankfully I suspect that most of these people are not and never will be active IRL.

You anti-anti-idpol lot are even worse. Nothing but vague muttering about being insulted with "back to Reddit," and your greatest contributions to the debate are "no u" and "lol virgin!"

[citation need]

Where did i say that?

Retards deserve nothing better.

It's where you effectively placed yourself.

I was responding to two posts. You were agreeing with the other.

You deserve less than nothing, then.

Start your own leftist group and purge SJWs the second they show up. Do so publicly, and if they're mentally unstable bully them toward suicide.

just call everyone "fellow human being"

They're not.

And the reason they're not particularly active is because actual IRL human relations are really complicated. It feels to me that idpol and anti-idpol are attempts to impose or hammer into shape very simplistic structures on complex human networks. It's why I think the biggest dogmatists of both have tended to be really loud people on the internet.

youtube.com/watch?v=5SN0pSMsvpM

Fuck niggers

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