Daily reminder

Vietnam has life expectancy of 76.25 years. In 2008 North Korea had HDI of 0.733. Both of these are higher than of american't right wing vassals during cold war like Indonesia or Thailand. Vietnam's life expectancy is higher than life expectancy in Thailand and Malaysia. Only Japan ,South Korea and Singapore have longer life expectancy in the far east. Cuba has one of highest life expectancy in the world and also engages in medical internationalism. They have more doctors in foreign countries that G8 countries combined. China has life expectancy almost as high as US, but their elder live healthier lives.

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Other urls found in this thread:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1646771/pdf/amjph00269-0055.pdf
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index#UN_member_states_(not_calculated_by_the_UNDP)
unescap.org/sites/default/files/wp-09-02.pdf
hdr.undp.org/sites/default/files/reports/259/hdr_1998_en_complete_nostats.pdf#33
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congo_Crisis
unescap.org/sites/default/files/The State of Human Development in the Pacific(LORes)..pdf
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Daily reminder the DDR had a higher HDI than West Germany before it was annexed.

I'm a ☭TANKIE☭ but come on dude

I believe it but I want a source.

Another win of state capitalist gang over neoliberals

Sauce on DPRK’s HDI? Every ranking I’ve seen leaves them out.

sauce?

Found proofs once but now I can only find evidence of it being slightly lower. Dug this up though, it has pretty interesting numbers in it.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1646771/pdf/amjph00269-0055.pdf

Made this image out of one of the pages.

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Shit I'm retarded the years are in the image.

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Because South Korea is bastion of crapitalism, it has received tons of american investment and is not good representative of crapitalism. Interestingly North Korea had same life expectancy untill famine of the 90's when it's life expectancy fell.It is very slowly catching up again. It also had same GDP per capita until the 70's. With all due respect Juche is kinda crappy ideology and Songun is bad policy. Mad respect for enduring and for slowly recovering, but they should open up. Vietnam is one of largest agricultural exporters in the world, and North Korea has 10 trillion worth of minerals. These two should team up closer, and together with Cuban medical advancements could become very powerful troika and help out third world countries building the necessary infrastructure to build communism.

Attached: The comparison of the GDP per capita trends on two Koreas from 1950 to 1977 (in 1990 Geary–Khamis dollars)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index#UN_member_states_(not_calculated_by_the_UNDP)


I am also posting a report of UN from the year I was born. I have also saved image on North Korea from space, that someone found in his university, but can't find it now.

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That's not from UNDP but from UNESCAP which uses a different method of determining HDI (which also happens to give Luxembourg 0.997).
unescap.org/sites/default/files/wp-09-02.pdf

The latest value from UNDP is 0.766 in 1995, which also happens to be during the Arduous March.
hdr.undp.org/sites/default/files/reports/259/hdr_1998_en_complete_nostats.pdf#33

I imagine both of these are just different departments or organisations of UN and both are considered canon, right?

Also Congo which was M-L and still has the same ruling party has HDI higher than crapitalist Congo. Note, that I feel bad for Congolese, why don't they emulate their successful neighbor?

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Prepare for one of the wildest rides Wikipedia has to offer. Coups! Secession! Assassination!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congo_Crisis

For those who are to lazy to read, or have read but are still confused, Ismail summed it up a little bit.

Very briefly and leaving out a bunch of stuff, leader of the Congolese independence movement was Patrice Lumumba, who admired Nkrumah's Pan-Africanism but otherwise didn't have much of an ideology beyond wanting independence. However, he strongly denounced the record of Belgian colonial rule, telling King Baudouin at Congo's independence day celebrations, "From today we are no longer your monkeys."

The Belgians and Americans were convinced that Lumumba would allow "communist penetration" in the Congo. Shortly after Congolese independence the Belgians backed a secessionist government in Katanga (the wealthiest part of the Congo.)

Lumumba invited the United Nations to intervene in what he assumed would be putting down an illegal secession in Katanga. Instead UN troops were used by the organization's Secretary-General to "keep the peace," allowing the secession to continue until a time when the government and Katangan secessionists could peacefully work out their differences and reunite (which the secessionists, backed by Belgian troops and mercenaries, had no interest whatsoever in doing.)

Lumumba was infuriated and began seeking Soviet weaponry to put down the secession himself. Meanwhile the CIA conspired to get Lumumba thrown out of office, whereupon he was shipped to Katanga and murdered.

With no more pesky Lumumba (and a Soviet-supported, pro-Lumumba rival Congolese government led by Antoine Gizenga soon to disappear), the West was divided on how to deal with the Katangan secession. The US under JFK determined that the stability of the Congo under a pro-West leadership would be endangered so long as its richest province was in rebellion under a different pro-West administration, so eventually the UN was given the task of putting down the secession by force.

Mobutu, a CIA asset, overthrew the civilian government in 1965 and loyally served American interests in Central Africa from thereon out. He was dependent on the aid of Western countries to stay afloat (e.g. in 1977 and '78 leftist Congolese rebels attacked Zaire from Angolan territory and would have overthrown Mobutu if it hadn't been for Western intervention to beat back the rebellion.)

The USSR was not involved in the Congo obtaining its independence, but as I said it did help out Lumumba once the latter asked for aid.

As for the Congo wars, they're rather complex. After the Rwandan Genocide the new Tutsi government in Rwanda was angry at Hutu refugee camps in Zaire which Rwanda argued were housing the perpetrators of the genocide and preparing armed forces to attack Rwanda. So Rwanda backed the overthrow of Mobutu. However, the new Kabila government was fairly weak and other African states (including Rwanda) backed militias to keep Congolese government control over certain areas weak and obtain control of resources. Kabila didn't like this and worked with other African countries to oust the militias.

Basically Patrice Lumumba who declared the independence of Congo was overthrown by western backed puppet, who ruled the country until first Congo war, when he was overthrown by alliance led by Zimbabwe and Angola (two good guys of cold war) and during second Congo war, total chaos ensued?

he was killed by the CIA and Belgians, so it's not just backing, they were in it up to their gills

Good summary but a couple of additions that make it more interesting:
The Belgians were acting through Belgian mining corporations
The UN SecGen was later assassinated over the Congo by an unknown pilot, and because he was becoming a nuisance to all sides it was promptly covered up

Reminder that Castro offered to provide aid for Hurricane Katrina and the mutts turned it down for literally no other reason than political image.

The US government let eighteen hundred of its own citizens die out of pure spite.

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UNDP is what is considered canon as they are the ones issuing annual Human Development Reports.
UNESCAP released that working paper in 2009 and haven't gone beyond that.
Also, they themselves use HDI data from UNDP reports.
unescap.org/sites/default/files/The State of Human Development in the Pacific(LORes)..pdf

Is it OK to use UNESCAP report from 2008 during debates?

I guess so. Until the DPRK is included in a future UNDP report, this is the most recent ranking we have from any UN agency.
You can always remind them that living conditions have clearly improved since that time.

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Do you know anything about the reason behind DPRK economic stagnation since 1970's?

The reason why I made the comparison, because Indonesia at one time was promising socialist state, which was even allied with Soviet Union. Soviets even send their navy and planes to help out in Indonesian war against Netherlands, and Indonesia supported Malaysian communists. Unfortunately us staged a coup in Indonesia which led to genocide of comrades. Thailand was american base in war against Indochinese communists. Malaya had failed communist insurgency. All three have lower life expectancy than Thailand. Poor Indonesia and Philippines have life expectancy lover than North Korea. Thailand and Malaysia only a bit higher, but again ,North Korea had a terrible famine in the 90's. All in all, again communism wins, yet unfortunately some proles in the east fail to see…


P.S. Vietnam and China have very high ranked education, and North Korea has 100% literacy and a space program.

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It's not state capitalism. Any capitalist elements are subordinated to a socialist state. There is a difference between capitalism and socialism that is smart enough not to throw away the baby with the bath water.

bump

Thats why anarchists will lose, simple as that, all anarchist to the wall and shoot